Separation & beyond.. Lala goes forth!!!

[LalaDipsey]

Hi everyone. Well, the saga continues. H turned up for his single 'abuse assessment session' on Monday to find that the counsellor had, by mistake, booked him in for Wednesday instead of Monday! I was fuming!
I spoke to them and said it may just be one more week to them, but to me I had mentally psyched myself up for H to have this DV assessment and was then ready for a session this Monday coming either together or on my own. Nothing could be done but I was gutted as I had hoped us to be significantly further along by next week and now we won't be.
On the plus side, night 3 of sleep training tonight so hoping for a massive improvement.
Had no idea what to call this thread... Felt this was still the right place as I extricate us from this relationship but I hope by the time this reaches 1000 posts H has either moved out, or is living here whilst the divorce is being processed so I hope the title sums that up!!
Thanks for everyone still with me

[Snorbs]

On Friday he tried "Do you miss me" in the hope that absence would've made your heart grow fonder, but that didn't work.

On Monday he tried "So you only came to say hello because of the DCs" in the hope that you'd feel all guilty and so stroke he ego, but that didn't work.

On Thursday he tried "he was at peace with whatever outcome is" in the hope that you'd panic and beg him to try again, but that didn't work.

So he then tried the "You just need to tell me what to do" approach in the hope of transferring his responsibility to be an involved and loving parent on to you. As if the only reason he's been an utterly selfish, untrustworthy drunken arse up until now is because you haven't told him how badly he's been behaving. (Although I would be sorely tempted to stick a post-it note on his forehead every morning saying "Stop drinking", but I know it would be pointless.)

Is his latest piece of emotional manipulation going to be the one that works to get you back in the place he wants you? Or are you going to pay more attention to what he does, rather than what he says?

[LalaDipsey]

I'm here. Reading and re-reading and knowing you all make sense and history dictates this will not last.
It's just that he's surpassed all expectations today. He gave DTs breakfast for the first time and has fully engaged in family life all day - not just opted in and out.
Part of me wonders if this is for the benefit of our joint counselling session on Tuesday though....
.... And I have seem through a couple of comments thanks to all your voices in my head! when I thanked him for feeding DTs breakfast he said 'there you go - you smiled at me so I helped out' or words to that effect - basically implying it was my fault he hadn't done this before right?
And then he cleared up after their dinner and he wiped the table & the Bumbos and said 'there we go - cleanest they've ever been!' - implying I don't clean well enough (& they weren't as spotless as I get them anyway!)
So, good but odd day & I do feel I can see through/past some of his behaviour now even if I am hoodwinked by some of it too
How do I feel though? I still feel closed off, separated. You're right though, Math I am DESPERATE for him to see how wrong he has been and how none of this is my fault. I am trying to remember what I read on another thread though 'he was unreasonable in your relationship what makes you think he will be reasonable now you have split up'

[NoWayNoHow]

The whole thing just sounds like a performance. Like an actor taking to the stage and immersing himself in the role, knowing that this one will make or break his career. (obviously the "career" in this case is his comfy set up where his wife does everything and he does nothing).

He will be making the assumption (and, God willing it will be wrong) that he's done enough time playing good dad and husband to make sure that wifey knows that she is responsible for all his behaviour, and now she'll stop trying to upset the status quo.

Those comments send shivers down my spine and have actually made me feel really quite sick and nervous to my stomach lala. It's SUCH manipulative mind-fucking behaviour. Math is absolutely right - he is trying to rewrite your reality and gaslighting you at every turn.

I'm glad that you are seeing through some of it, but in all the time I've been following your thread, this is the most worried for you I've ever been.

He is becoming more and more and more emotionally abusive. This is about so much more than drinking. Stick to your guns, write down what you want to say at joint counselling about the separation, and don't allow him to deviate from YOUR script.

And, please - if you're going to joint counselling with any other agenda besides getting support to fully end this dangerous relationship, then DON'T DON'T DON'T DON'T GO

[JUbilympiX]

OK, he's surpassed all expectation today; I hate to say this is because your expectations are pretty low, but I will anyway. His comments still say 'this is your job really, but I'm going to do it anyway, and make sure you know I have'. It sounds like he's chalking up things to say at counselling, to prove he's doing things and show that you will be unreasonable to want to continue with the separation.

Be prepared for him throwing this at you. "Too little, too late" is a good response, and perfectly reasonable. Stick to your guns.

[mathanxiety]

'there you go - you smiled at me so I helped out' or words to that effect - basically implying it was my fault he hadn't done this before right?
And then he cleared up after their dinner and he wiped the table & the Bumbos and said 'there we go - cleanest they've ever been!' - implying I don't clean well enough (& they weren't as spotless as I get them anyway!)

I want to slap him into the middle of next week.

He has told you flat out that you are:
(1) a sourpuss.
(2) a slattern.
(3) not a good parent.

How can you possibly call this 'surpassing all expectations' without the slightest hint of irony??

The implication is that if you were to doll yourself up and make an effort to get back into bed with him god only knows what feats of parenting and husbanding he would be capable of.

'So, good but odd day'

Lala, he has insulted you on three levels and once again told you this is all about how you are treating him.
How is that a good day?

He can't give without taking. He can't resist the digs. He can't stop tearing you down -- and you think this was a good day in some respects?

What you have described is emotional and psychological abuse.

[SecrectFarleysNibbler]

there you go - you smiled at me so I helped out'. You have heard of Pavalos dogs haven't you? He s conditioning you AGAIN!! " I will only help if you behave as I require" I think you would have had to hold me back from ramming the breakfast spoon somewhere where the sun don't shine!!! As for his bumbo comments he is simply undermining you - it's all " me me me" again - " look what I can do WHEN I want to " is there room for the bumbo seat behind the spoon?????

[mathanxiety]

'Math I am DESPERATE for him to see how wrong he has been'

Lala, you must address this desperate need in separate counselling before you even think of any joint counselling with him.

This is your achilles heel. He will find it and exploit it and you will lose. He has brought you this low so that he can win in this relationship. You don't seem to understand that for him your relationship is a win or lose proposition and there is no question of mutuality or a common good -- there is no WE in this man's mind. If he wins you have to lose, and he is determined to win.
You have to play this game and you have to win.

If you don't address your weakness, all he has to do is say a few words and you will be right back where you started -- unless you can build on that feeling of being closed off and separated. That feeling of separation is your foundation.

[SecrectFarleysNibbler]

Math is right - my mum, ( yep - back to her again!!), explained to me that love and hate are the sides of the same coin. They both take up spades of emotion to deploy and both give the other person attention. The killer is indifference - to be in a place where you have no emotion either way, you take NO TIME to spend ANY emotion on the person. While you are receiving attention from another person, be it positive or negative, you are getting attention and this gives a sense of satisfaction - to get nothing, no reaction, no emotion good or bad is truly hurtful. This dynamic in the relationship needs to flip. You need to reach a point of indifference.

[lagartija]

You need to file divorce papers and have him leave. You're just going round in circles and he's playing you like a fiddle. Go to counselling yourself to get yourself ready to leave this relationship NOW.

[SecrectFarleysNibbler]

You don't need him to realise how wrong he has been. You just need to move on and put your energies into new horizons. Imagine a big post it note on his head reading 'write off". It's like you are pouring money to mend a car that is irrevocably broken - madness! Be strong Lala - you know what your gut is telling you - this whole thing is a dead duck. You need to shut off all avenues that he can use to manipulate you. You ave declared a separation - BE separate. If he wants to help out, ( now ) , then arrange to ' hand' the kids over and leave him to it for half an hour! Sure his true colours will out! It's all too little too late.

[Midwife99]

Hi Lala, I have posted on this particular thread yet but have on the previous. You do sound much stronger than you were but I worry that he is still manipulating you. What do you really want the outcome to be?

[Bossybritches22]

?Gaslighting is a form of intimidation or psychological abuse in which false information is presented to the victim, making them doubt their own memory and perception.?

Just keep repeating this Lala.....he is working his way back to you,don't let him.

[mathanxiety]

'there you go - you smiled at me so I helped out'

Urrrrrrgh.

That 'There you go' --
Whether he said those words exactly or whether that was what you sensed, Lala, there is breathtaking contempt there.

[sadwidow28]

Lala, how are you doing sweetie?

[Snorbs]

I am DESPERATE for him to see how wrong he has been

That is understandable. As humans we have a strong tendency to expect others to behave the way we would. If you or I had treated someone we professed to love as shittily as he has (and still is) treating you, then we'd try really hard to take responsibility for our actions.

But he's not you. He doesn't see things the way you do.

Let's imagine that he never takes responsibility for his choices. How would that change things for you? How long are you willing to wait before you decide that he's not going to see things the way you do?

[SecrectFarleysNibbler]

Even when YOU feel that he is making an effort he makes comments that just don't reassure you that he is taking part in a loving, giving, unconditional relationship. It's still a game, point scoring, snide remarks and controlling behaviour - and by your own admission this is him at his best.

"did you miss me?" instead of ' I missed you' for example.

Lala - it's time - make the break - for good - make him go - I can not tell you how good you will feel knowing that you are in charge of what you and your ducklings are doing, not to feel the need to walk on eggshells, not to feel deflated after every snide remark that brings you down.

Do you believe in you? Do you know you have the strength? Oh yes! ANYONE who has done what you have physically and mentally so far has a core of steel! The irony is that it will probably be easier without him tagging on with his baggage.

Look at these Olympic winners - have a dream and go for it Lala - you deserve gold!! Xx

[DippyDoohdah]

My h makes those "look how well I can do it for you "(clean/parenting etc) when he decides to give me a taste of what he can randomly do.it's horrible as it serves to undermine your confidence and ability, and undermine your conviction that they just cannot and will not do what you have needed them to fo for bloody ages

[hillyhilly]

Lala, is it your sole counselling session today? Please don't lose sight of what you need to achieve here. You are letting him be a puppet master, he is pulling all the strings at the moment.
Good luck

[Whisky4Tea]

[This is DavidH under a new name btw]

Lala: Math speaks sense. I know it is really hard to hear and that you don't want it to be true, but it is. Your posts demonstrate that you can see through all his games. So try as hard as you can not to go along with them.

I don't think he wants to see what a shit he is. He isn't going to listen how you want him too, will he show the remorse you want him to. His tactic is to carry on manipulating you and making sure everything is your fault, so you feel guilty. He will do this in the counselling session. I hope you can cope with it.

You need to counselling on your own, where your voice is the one heard and your needs are being met. And you need to tell your h to sling his hook. It will all be easier once he is not there on a daily basis making you feel like crap.

[LalaDipsey]

Hi all. I'm not ignoring you. I keep reading and re-reading your posts (if only, Math, MNHQ hadn't deleted the last 2 threads I think I would one day be tempted to publish your posts (with your permission of course!) as the Confuscious (sp?!) of the 21st century. You make so much sense.
Joint counselling tomorrow. Solo session next Monday. I am prepared this time for him to come over very reasonable, give examples of his 'good behaviour' etc.
His comments at the weeknd which put me down - do you think these are conscious or subconscious for him? If I say tomorrow that he negates helping out when he devalues me will he take it on board/be shocked he has acted in that way or go in a huff that 'he can't do anything right and if that's my attitude there's no point him trying' ok no point answering that is there?!
I still want him gone, if only to clear my head. If he would only agree to a trial separation (physically) for 6 months that would be my ideal. Give me some space to see exactly what I want and if I miss him at all because don't think I would. I don't think I have love left for him.
But he won't. If he moves out it's over as far as he's concerned.
At least I told the counsellor when I saw her 1:1 that I wanted it to be over so hoping she will help me tomorrow.
I do hope I don't come back on here tomorrow night saying how right you all were about joint counselling but sadly I think I will

[LurkingAndLearningLovesCats]

They're subconscious in the sense he probably actually believes them. :( But they're definitely very careful, deliberate, and precise in timing. He's always been a manipulator, now he'll be at his peak.

He won't take ANYTHING on board Lala! He doesn't think he's done anything wrong, ever. He may pay lipservice and say what you want to hear, but he'll never mean it. He's an abuser.

I know you want him to change. But he won't. He won't ever change. He'll always be a cruel, selfish being.

Why do you want a trial separation? He's put you through so much already Lala. :( And your beautiful DC. :(

He's not going to change. The longer you drag this out, the more chance he has to manipulate you and cloud your judgement.

[lagartija]

LEAVE HIM!!! Sorry for shouting, but WHY for the love of all that is holy are you even talking about a TRIAL separation? He will never change. Those comments are deliberate, he's furious with you, how dare you challenge him and ask anything of him. He's not going to let you get away with that.
WHY are you going to joint counselling? It is a waste of time, all of this is. When I saw this thread I really thought you'd got him to leave, but it's the same old circles, round and round again. IT IS OVER. HE MUST LEAVE. It's really as simple as that. There is no saving this marriage but you can save yourself and the DCs from this half life you are all living. Tell him at the joint counselling you want him to leave.

[LurkingAndLearningLovesCats]

^^ That's what I was trying/actually wanted to say.

[LalaDipsey]

I know. It's what I want to say to myself

[LurkingAndLearningLovesCats]

What's holding you back Lala? hug