Separation & beyond.. Lala goes forth!!!

[LalaDipsey]

Hi everyone. Well, the saga continues. H turned up for his single 'abuse assessment session' on Monday to find that the counsellor had, by mistake, booked him in for Wednesday instead of Monday! I was fuming!
I spoke to them and said it may just be one more week to them, but to me I had mentally psyched myself up for H to have this DV assessment and was then ready for a session this Monday coming either together or on my own. Nothing could be done but I was gutted as I had hoped us to be significantly further along by next week and now we won't be.
On the plus side, night 3 of sleep training tonight so hoping for a massive improvement.
Had no idea what to call this thread... Felt this was still the right place as I extricate us from this relationship but I hope by the time this reaches 1000 posts H has either moved out, or is living here whilst the divorce is being processed so I hope the title sums that up!!
Thanks for everyone still with me

How do you feel? Is he leaving? Well done, have followed your thread and think you have been very strong.

I'm also settling two littluns....a toddler who has decided tonight to start getting out of bed and standing on the landing....where's supernanny???!

First off WELL DONE!

Secondly, he's trying to turn it onto you - typical. And as you're a decent human being you'll be feeling guilty but please don't.

How can he think it's acceptable to say being an alcoholic is his only joy? His children and wife should be his joys.

By 'give an inch' he actually means you should be grateful for small favours (like one birthday in 20 years) and shut up about everything else. He wants a mile, not an inch, please don't be drawn in by this nonsense.

Why should you have to work at getting him to give up drink - he is an adult - it is on him.

I'm sure it's been hard and you're exhausted but this is a good step. A needed step. He can't change. Certainly not while you're there to rescue him and accept his scraps of comfort. If he needs to move away so be it.

Is there any plan re. him moving out?

Well done Lala.

Stay strong x

Well done lala. Remember, you don't have to justify this decision to him at all. He's not stupid. In fact, he's showing some lovely true colours with his emotional blackmail and guilt tripping and "I'll move so far away the kids will never see me" and "I'll give my job up and go on the dole so I can't support you"

Desperate tactics from someone who's FINALLY facing the consequences of his endless prioritisation of alcohold over his beautiful wife and 3 DCs.

Well, if alcohol really is his "only joy" (what a REVOLTING thing to say), then he'll be perfectly happy when he moves out.

You have been very strong, don't back down now - be prepared for him to used every nasty trick in the book now to guilt you into changing your mind.

Give him a deadline by when you want him out the house. Don't let this massive step become a non-issue just because you want to avoid conflict, otherwise he'll still be there after Christmas, still drinking, still runningyou ragged, and still giving you crumbs when yuo should have your cake.

Well done Lala. He knows you're serious, that's why he's dishing out the emotional blackmail and guilt trips.

Ignore. Don't engage. Dismiss with a disinterested "that's nice" and concentrate on creating a happy home for the DCs and you.

I'm really proud of how far you've come Lala. Stay strong. X

Oh well done you. It's only a first step but it is a massive one to take and can't have been easy. I hope you're feeling strong enough not to let the emotional blackmail bullshit get to you - his future is for him to sort out, not you. Please take heed of my warnings about maintaining momentum, especially now you've come this far. You may not feel like it yet, but maybe start thinking about seeing your solicitor and getting things moving - i think until he receives something official he will just keep playing the game and will bank on you letting things slide. That's for the next few days and weeks though - i think for now you should just feel damn right proud of yourself.

I really hope you can see it through this time Lala, he sounds truly awful and as someone else pointed out then if drinking is his only joy (wtf!!!), then he can be very very happy from now on without you trying to stop him. Please plan your next steps as to how and when this separation actually becomes exactly that - who is moving out and when, get it planned, what are your Christmas plans?

Well done. That's that first step.

It's classic behaviour to push the blame back onto you. The next part of the script is the threats of giving up everything ie job/ all contact /move to the Outer Hebrides. Don't let him emotionally blackmail you.

You need all your stregnth to make it happen. You don't want to be living in the same house as he WILL continue to carry on as if you haven't had this difficult conversation. And it will drag on and on.

What time-scales have you got in mind? Has he agreed to move out?

You need to hold on to the realisation that he won't change, no matter how he twists things.

You have shown amazing strength, and have gone beyond what you needed to, leaving no possibility untried to save your marriage. Unfortunately it takes two people to make a true effort.

You can try and take some reassurance from the fact that you have done much much more than most people would have done in your situation.

The bottom line is he won't (not can't) change dispite all of your effort.

We are here for all of your ramblings, and to hold your hand.

He asked when he should move out. I didn't have an answer, he went on to say he would want to buy, not rent. I didn't tell him he wouldn't be able to whilst his name is on the mortgage here.
Because the conversation was left after I'd cried and he said he didn't want to go I agree I have to keep momentum up or he will think this is like last time.
This weekend we have to discuss timescales and money. Maybe I haven't had the scariest conversation yet!
I feel ok. Quite calm. Quite sad. A bit teary. But quite certain.
It's funny how when I talk to my mum I am so clear why we are over and yet when I talked to H last night he makes me feel uncertain and that I'm being silly and that it is my fault for being cold and shutting him out.

Hi Lala,

Is there any way your Mum could come to stay with you for a few days, whilst you and STBX get the details of your split sorted out? You need some strength, someone with you in your corner who can remind you that you are not some cold, unfeeling, heartless bitch but a woman who has been completely let down and driven to the edge by her husband's alcoholism and refusal to participate in family life. You don't need to cover for him, or feel ashamed/embarrassed/a failure for splitting up. He is the one who should be ashamed for putting his drinking above the welfare and happiness of his family. You don't have to "cover" for him anymore. He has made his bed, he has to damn well lie in it.

In the meantime, make the separation real, as much as you are comfortable doing. Tell family and friends - you don't have to give specifics, but can say that after a lot of soul-searching you know this is the right decision and would appreciate their support.

Make sure that you're living "as separated". Do not cook or clean for him. Do not touch his laundry. Do not share a bed. Do not feel you have to "check in" with him, or let him know what you are doing. Keep him in the loop as much as he is willing regarding the children, but your life is your own and he has no say in it.

Please try to see a solicitor as soon as you can so you can get some advice on what you are entitled to financially. Never forget, your STBX will probably make this unbelievably difficult for you so it seems like too much hard work and you give in again - he'll bullshit about not paying maintenance, having no money to cover mortgage, sodding off to live on Mars so he'll never see the kids again - you need to have rock-solid knowledge of what you're legally entitled to as a spouse. He cannot shirk his responsibilities to you and your children any longer.

Come here whenever you feel like you're wobbling. You've been conditioned by him for years, this will take a long time to get over, but you will get there. Your feelings and needs are valid, they need to be satisfied for your future wellbeing - you don't have to put up with anything he says or does anymore. Remember that the next time he tries to bullshit you about this all being your fault.

xx

Great advice from panda, he needs to move out immediately and that will mean renting, even if he thinks its while he's looking to buy.

Hi Lala - So relieved that you have finally made your decision; and glad that you feel calm and certain. Calm and certain is a good place to be.

Yes, your H will try to mess with your head (and the threats re moving away, giving up work etc are just his way of trying to make you feel guilty) but YOU are in the driving seat now. So get yourself down to a solicitor ASAP, tell them you want them to draft divorce papers on the basis of unreasonable behaviour and ask what a reasonable split of assets / income would be. Then armed with that info, you can tell your H what will happen next. Note the use of the word "tell", not discuss or negotiate. If he feels the need to negotiate, I would tell him to speak to your lawyer.

If I were you, I would invite friends and family round as much as possible whilst you are going through this transition period, so that he understands that you have moved on and you learn to disengage

I did feel calm and confident until I just got a text from H who is working away til Friday. I am now in tears. He says he is still hopeful moving out isn't the only option. That please can we talk .
I want to say ok goto AA. Stop drinking. Then maybe.
Until I got his text I was having a bath and enjoying the thought of coming downstairs without him here and then I got the text and I'm crying because I want everything to be ok

Lala

He had time to 'talk' months and months but he choose not too. He choose to continue His behaviour.

I would tell him to move out ASAP, work on himself then you can talk. It's only once he out of the home will you be able to think clearly about what best for you and your dc.

He is messing with you in the way that he knows works. It's cruel.

wheredidiputit is right. Send a text back that the time to talk has past - he needs to move out, take action against his alcoholism, and then you will talk with him.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't fall for his bullshit for the umpteenth time.

It is hard, but what you're doing is necessary.

It's been almost a year since you started your first thread. He doesn't deserve any more years without offering a stitch in return.

You are strong. You've done the right thing. Cry privately, but stick to your guns.

Please don't give in again Lala. Please. It is horrible and tough but he's fucking you over. Tell him he's going, and that's the end of it. He's had chance after chance, ignored them all, because (in his own words), drink is his only pleasure. His only pleasure. Not you. Not your beautiful children. Drink.

Lala - I hope you are feeling OK and more resolved this morning. Yes, it's upsetting to get texts from him. But he has told you (very honestly) that his main joy is drink. That means that he is not the man you thought you married and he has certainly not become the father you could have expected him to be.

Let him fix himself (if he can) away from you and the children. If he manages that long-term, then you could always start your relationship again in the future. Although, even without the drink, would he still be unhelpful, swearing, angry, unreliable, self-centred etc? Personally, I think that once you've made the break properly, you'll never want him back! It's only once you're living a normal life that you'll come to realise just how abnormal your previous life was.

Your H's main priority is drink. You know you need to make your main priority your children. - so stick with it, even though it is hard. x

Thankyou. I texted back eventually that I would write down how I feel so he could maybe understand. He texted back that was great - I think he thought I meant I was saying we cld sort things. Anyway I started typing and have kept going! Not sent it yet and I may post it here first for additions/feedback! I need it ready for Friday night. Am finding it quite cathartic. Keep me focussed please tho - I had thought I was certain and hadn't predicted how easily I could be swayed for a bit. Thanks all of you x

Lala you are giving him too much of an "in". This is what he wants. He has done nothig in all these months (I have been following this thread from the beginning). If you tell him how you feel, even written down:

He will use it as a tool to beat you with - again
He will turn it around on to you - again
He will use it as an excuse to carry on "discussions"
He will try and say he needs to have the opportunity to address your issues.

He is abusive. He doesn't care about your feelings and even if he did IT DOESN'T MATTER. Because he cannot use that knowledge in any other way than just to carry on abusing you. This is what abusers do. The feeling that eveything is clear when you speak to your mum and then not when you speak to him is classic abuser style. Confusion, obfuscation, redirection, reflection, projection. They use it all TO GET WHAT THEY WANT.

Disengage. Now. That is the only way you are going to break free from him. Do not enter into any more discussions about this other than when is he going to move out. That is all you want or need from him.

I agree with Abigail, lala -write down everything you need to, but DON'T send it to him. He will just use it against you. My friend has just had experience of this very same thing, with an unfaithful ex who was bordering on abusive territory (he would have been if he'd had longer).

She wrote it down to get it out, but then sent it to him, and now she's opened those channels of communication again, he is testing her and trying her and twisitng everything so that she genuinely is starting to doubt herself.

Please don't give him the opportunity. The ONLY thing you need to be talking to him about is bare basic DC information (which he doesn't care about anyway) and when he's moving out

You've come so far, don't let him take this from you.

God, Lala, he plays you like a violin and you fall for it every time. Why are you pandering to him, writing out your emotions for him to read, laugh at and dismiss? Being so open with him only gives him more ways to screw you up. He already knows exactly how you feel - what he's doing now is persuading you that you don't really feel like that, you don't really want to split, you don't really want him to move out, you don't want to continue counselling, you don't want to complain about him ignoring his wife and children... He wants you so beaten down that you think "actually, I don't mind being an emotional doormat and slave to the housework because it's better than being a single mother."

You know you need (need, as well as want) him out of the family home so you can concentrate on building up your strength, your self-esteem, your self-worth and your happiness as well as caring for your children and letting them play, letting them run about and make a noise and make a mess without stressing whether "D"H will shout and scream and throw a tantrum because he's abusive and hungover again.

Again, I'll say it. He's an abusive, misogynistic alcoholic. He has no love or respect for you as a woman, and even less for his children. His only pleasure in life is drinking - he told you that from his own mouth! Not you, not your children, but drinking and forgetting about everything he should be cherishing.

He is a pathetic, abusive waste of skin, Lala, but he plays you every single time you show an ounce of strength, and before you know it you're giving him another "one last chance". I can tell you exactly how this'll go - he'll read your letter/email and make all the right noises, cry, tell you he knows how terribly he's behaved, how he thinks you'd be better off without him but he loves you, he needs you, he can't go on without you. He'll go to counselling, maybe even an AA meeting or two, he'll be a "great" Dad at the weekend (and by great I mean he'll do the bare minimum that most normal Dad's do day in, day out) and you'll think wistfully that this time, maybe this time he's really changed... Only he hasn't, because it'll be back to "a couple of beers" on a Friday, then out to the pub all Saturday, topped off with a bottle of wine to himself when he gets home. Then it's back to the hangovers, the anger, the shouting, the throwing things at his children and making them bleed, the scaring your DD, back to making you feel worthless.

You have all the power, Lala. You can make it all stop. You just have to stick to your guns and stop letting him in time after time. If he ever, ever, ever wanted to change, he'd have done it a year ago. Please don't waste another year on him.

Hi. I know and I appreciate what you're saying and I do remember the last time (years ago) I wrote him a letter and he ignored it and made it all my fault. However I want to do this, when I talk to him I am not clear or firm enough so here's my draft..... (it's not pretty, formatted or grammar checked, it's just me 'dumping' onto paper)

Yes we have problems between us but I feel like it you could compare us to the Titanic - doesn't matter about the other problems when there's an enormous hole in the ship. And the enormous hole is your alcoholism. And I do think you're an alcoholic. And now all I think about is your drinking - how much you're having, how long will you be at the pub, how much when you get home, will you strop, will you spend the next day hungover - in bed or hungover on the sofa. And when will you drink again? And will it make you short tempered with the children or me? What's it doing to your health? What has it done to our finances? And now you have let DD down. Because you were hungover you didn't take her out for lunch. And you swore at baby DTD after we got back from the party. You had just had 3 hours to yourself to do whatever you wanted and within 3 minutes of being home just because DTD was in a tizzy you swore at her. Saying 'fuck me' is NOT acceptable in front of children. Your swearing is creeping up again and your tolerance for the children is decreasing - any coincidence your alcohol intake has increased as well?
And you make me cancel a £3.59/wk snack box when you spend goodness knows how much a week on alcohol and cigarettes?? £100/wk? £150? Yes there have been expenses lately but show me one thing (apart from the massage) which has been for me?
I can't cope with your behaviour anymore. You haven't followed through on:

• reading the book the counsellor asked
• going to counselling in your holiday

• attending counselling regularly as a couple - I reckon we've had about 5 joint sessions in over 4 months.

• Initiating and doing the reviews the counsellor asked us to do
• spending the time I asked helping at the weekend

• being involved in school discussions

• changing nappies - you have changed one
• Having family outings
• Helping at bed/bathtime
• us spending time together
• STOPPING DRINKING

Your involvement with the children remains the 'fun' input. You come in and play beautifully when you choose to but it isn't consistent and you don't do any of the 'legwork' of parenting - feeding, bathing, dressing, consistent & fair & calm disciplining, soothing crying babies, changing nappies etc etc. You are still quick to anger - grabbing DD's arm again just 2 weeks ago. IT IS NOT OK.

you go on about money but you are spending a small fortune on alcohol. Think of what we could have done with that money over the past 5 years? At your height of drinking maybe £6k a year of drinking and smoking. Maybe £25k in 5 years. Think where we could be financially - loads of mortgage paid off. You properly insured. I still can't get over the fact that your lifestyle puts you so at risk of us losing you to a serious illness and yet you don't stop AND you're not insured enough so if something happens to you we would lose the house. Pre twins, you never came to bed with me - you would rather stay up with wine for company and pass out on the sofa. I do not believe it has been 5 years. Things were hard before I got pregnant with DD in that I know I found our infertility very hard but we DID communicate. Things changed when I became pregnant and tired and didn't drink. This is when you started staying up night after night, drinking. Your drinking escalated when I was in hospital before having DD. When I started bleeding I had to ring Cara to get Simone to drive you to the hospital because you were hammered AND you came in, threw my water away and poured a G&T into my water cup!! It was then I knew you had an alcohol problem but I didnt want to face it with a newborn very much loved and wanted DD. You stopped coming to bed. You stayed up, passing out on the sofa and waking up somewhere between 1am and 4am and coming to bed. THIS is why our relationship deteriorated. I could no longer communicate with you. You were either drunk (in which case don't say the wrong thing for fear or setting you off), hungover (ditto), or you were in between and all was ok and I didn't want to rock the boat. I feel like I have been second fiddle to alcohol for far too long, and I won't let our children be second fiddle and I'm not going to be any more. In various conversations over the last few months you have alternated between 'I won't stop' and 'I will stop'. All I know is you haven't and any attempt to cut down doesn't last long.
Yes you work hard. I work bloody hard too and often at the moment 20 hour days as the babies aren't sleeping and you just lie in to whenever you like, regardless of how little sleep I have had, and it's not good enough. I have been specific about what I want. I have been clear. You have chosen not to change these ways.
I have said numerous times, and the counsellor did too, that I cannot change until I see sustained proof you have. I was getting warmer towards you and then on your week off you blew it. You were horrid. Your week off was horrid. You started kicking toys again and getting angry and drinking more and we achieved nothing as a family.
I do see you doing more with the children than you were, but in the main it is still ten minutes here and there. You haven't followed through and done breakfasts or dinners with the children. You still get cross and swear at them, and about them, when they cry.
One of the reasons I can't get warmer to you is that I have so much buried anger towards you that I can't express as I am too conditioned not to for fear of setting you off.
YOU ARE STILL DRINKING

I need space. I need to not need to worry about you and your drink for a little while. I am so tired of thinking about it. I need you to go. I need you to move out. I am not going to let DTS become a 4th (or more, who knows) generation alcoholic. If you choose to seek help and stop then it needs to be for you and then we can talk again. You say that it's the pressures of here and me that are driving you to drink. Whilst I disagree with this because you have always drunk, maybe you will be able to stop away from us. Although maybe you don't want to stop. That is your choice.

I have to start a life where I am not consumed by you and your drinking and behaviour. When my first thought even before you come in the door is about how much you have had to drink.

You may still not see you have a problem. That is your prerogative. I can choose though. And it is with sorrow and it is with sadness, but I choose not to live with you anymore.

LALA

That seems a very good Email (once tidy). It is very clear to me just reading that you no longer want or have a relationship with him, and you want it to end now.

I think that by Friday you have a clear idea in you head that he will be gone by say 8th Dec. So he is gone before Christmas (as you have always said it would by Christmas you would make you decision). You don't want him hanging around at what should be a fun time for your DD and your not on tender hooks waiting for him to erupt because he drinking. That will give a couple of weeks to sort yourself and DC out by Christmas, so you are all more settled.

Perhaps even put it in your E mail at date you want him gone.

My god Lala! I don't check in for a few days and I come back and it's all happening!!!! That is a fantastic "from the heart" piece of writing that he needs to read. You are amazing! Keep strong and you can do this. Xx

Lala, your email is heartbreaking. He has put you through too much. You do sound strong and determined, which is fantastic. I really hope he takes notice of what you've said. X