Anyone else the black sheep of their family?

[HexagonalQueenOfEverything]

I am!

It used to upset me a lot but after having counselling I'm ok with it, and see it as my mum and sister's problem rather than mine. If anything, these days I find the way they speak to me quite amusing, and I do limit the amount of time I spend with them and have very firm boundaries in place.

It's funny though that even though my sister and I are now in our thirties, my sister still keeps to her role as the 'favourite', and seems to almost get pleasure from speaking to me badly and with contempt.

Bloody iPhone autocorrect, sorry for weird typos!

Or Cob, why not research first to see if that helps or whether you need therapy? Cheaper for now!
A few books I've found useful-
"difficult mothers"
"children of the self-absorbed"
" "toxic parents"
also a few websites but of varying quality.

Reporting in too!

Mega useful thread!

It's the family dos that are the most agonising - or were the most agonising. They'd take constant pops at me and I couldn't say anything because it would 'spoil it' for the person celebrating. They all laughed and sneered together, a kind of in-joke between them. Goodness knows what they found to talk about about me. anyways, let's not go there.

Inadequates. Who would make such a deal of singling out one person and sneering and jabbing at them mercilessly for years? inadequates.

Most of the times the jabs were so puerile I really didn't have a clue what to say and was kind of open mouthed. speechless.

I still struggle with speechlessness in my general life tbh and was thinking the other day that I must find a way to find my voice.

"difficult mother presents her child with the dilemma: either develop complex and constricting coping mechanisms to maintain a relationship with me on my terms, or suffer ridicule, disapproval, or rejection." what do you reckon,ladies?

"a child can't easily escape this dilemma..and terrified of being abandoned..the primitive panic at abandonment lasts long into adulthood.. Even [then] we are rarely willing to renounce a mothers love even when it brings pain, frustration and disappointment."

Spot on! This sums up my relationship with my mother to a 't'.

My father died when I was in my teens, and my mum kept his ashes for years. I always imagined she was waiting for 'the right time'. So one day she phoned me to tell me she had gone off with my brother to scatter the ashes - in a place hundreds of miles away (so not exactly spur of the moment!) nor a place I can visit easily if I want to. I was devastated. I felt ignored and excluded, and I question to this day whether that is what my dad would have wanted. But I couldn't express how I felt for fear of upsetting her so I said nothing... until a few days ago.

When I asked her about it and told her how hurt I had been, she said 'I'm sorry you feel like that'. I pressed her on it but she would provide no explaination, or apology, or expression of regret. She wouldn't look me in the eye.

I was upset, but then I realised that I had given her an opportunity to heal an old wound and she had chosen to reject it.

The best thing I did was cut my mother out our lives, I miss having a mother but not her. What have I missed these past 3 1/2 years

weekly phonecalls all about her, her latest illness, she told everyone she was having a cancer scare as she read on the Internet one of the possible symptoms she had may lead to cancer
Moaning and whinging about everyone apart from my brother and his girlfriend
telling me I'm a crap parent for not parenting like her
Her totally insane comments like women shouldn't have IVF it's Gods way of telling them they aren't good enough to be mothers, your only a real woman if you have a son, all men want sons and your husband will leave you if you can't give him a son, apparently you hit the jackpot if you have one of each like she did of course. The irony is she has never seen her firstborn grandson, but my brother had had a boy now so she'll be happy.

I'm reading a lot of the other replies on this thread with interest, as theres so much I can relate too & could have written myself - I'm certain my own Mother is NPD - she fits the profile to a tee, even down to losing her older sister to Diphtheria when DM was 6 & DM survived it, but I think from then onwards used illness as a way to get my DGMs attention & she is probably Bi Polar too - I once read a paper on BP1 & attitudes to children who've left home & it was absolutely spot on with how she treats me -

I could write a novel of the things she has done & my Dad is no saint either, he does enable her behaviour & was abusive to me in the past, though at least he sees how wrong that was & has apologised, though with his abusive behaviour towards DM - I can now also see as an adult she would try the patients of a saint & she now uses his past behaviour to control him & I think in reality SHE was always the abusive one, but made out it was him - I remember awful fights & was brought up to believe he used to knock her around, but once my eyes were opened up to what she can do, I realised that I actually have no memory of him ever attacking her, I do remember her attacking him & him defending himself though.

These days she is genuinely ill, (MS & Diabetes) but she is forever inventing more illnesses & self harms for attention by stuffing her face full of sugary foods that have put her into a diabetic coma - because my Dad dared to think about going to a family gathering - I've been told she was admitted to hospital with both a heart attack & stroke, whilst I had DD in hospital her & she recently was battling Cancer - all made up - I've been accused of "making my money" not in my real profession but as a prostitute, which as I'd b losing my looks would have to give up & on & on & on?.none of which she EVER apologised for

It came to a head when I fell pregnant with DD, she was vile beyond vile, despite my being an older MTB with enough work stress already, she proceeded to hound me with abusive rants about my being a whore, letting the family name down for being pregnant & not then married, comparing to my cousins 16 year old teen Mum DD etc etc - I was in my 40s & DD was no accident- I had to block her number as she was even ringing to abuse me whilst I was on work trip & in meetings in Paris - we didn't speak for over 2 years - but with her poison, she made sure none of my family spoke to me either, which included my wedding & birth of DD & my nearly losing DD to illness as a baby.

That did change the dynamics of our relationship for ever, I was no longer ever going to accept things as they were or put up with her BS, but did of course miss my family at times when family are important, but for the most part learnt to dump her crap in a make believe bin on getting off the phone - all helped by the fact I live a long distance away.

Having DD really brought home just how psychologically abusive & manipulative DM was & made me determined NEVER to b that sort of Mum - we did start to speak again after 2 years, but that in itself has been an eye opener - so many things have come out of odd comments she has made about my childhood in comparison to DD - for example DD has always had an older head on her shoulders, very clever for her age - DM mentioned my also being like this as a DC - then went onto to relate how she could trust me to go to the shop for her when I was 3,1/2 - I have clear memories of that 1/2 mile walk with a note, near a road & across an open piece of wasteland - I remember being so frightened at that bit that instead of taking the shorter route across it, I stuck like glue with my back to the wall around it - I thought I was about 6, so finding out I was really so tiny was a shock - DMs reaction to my expressing that shock " well what was I supposed to do, I had a new baby to think of, so I couldn't go out in the rain & get milk & bread, it didn't kill you"

I did see a counsellor years back, before DD was thought of, as I realised I kept hooking up manipulative & psychologically abusive men, the last one being extreme & ended up stalking me in a way that left me feeling I was going nuts - recognising that my childhood was "built on sand" not solid rock foundations as is a healthy childhood" & that I did subconsciously seek out men that gave me what I was used too, not what was right or good for me - DH & I got together soon after & he is very different, so I know recognising that helped me move on - but DM hated my moving on & hates DH, saying that the fact we don't fight is not normal - of course we can argue, but just not like she would, fighting for her was a way to get her own way - I remember her wanting new windows - she wound DF up so much that he put the coffee table through the window - she got her new windows & I still remember her gloating to me about knowing how to get what she wanted

Funny writing this, so much come to mind, but basically I can relate & then some & years of my allowing her control has left me distant from my extended family too, because she lies both to me & them & so much time has gone by its hard to build those bridges, especially as I live so far away:(

What I don't get though is my DB - always the Golden Boy - so much so I spent a part of my childhood dressing as a boy as I thought that would make me mean more to her - it didn't of course, just wound her up more, especially as she owned up a few years ago that my DGM had once said that "DM was too young to Mother me, & that I was too old even when tiny to be a dress up doll for DM"

DB always got special treatment & as I grew up believing he was ill - weak chest & prone to getting sick at any minute - I only found out that he actually had the same thing as a baby as my DD - she recovered & was fine afterward - but according to my DM, DB needed extra care - he didn't of course, it was another way of getting attention for her - in short because I believed it, I also mollycoddled my little DB as a kid - even though he stole from me frequently & would manipulate to get me into trouble - I of course was never believed - he was often bullied, so I would step in to stick up for him - always ended up with both DB & bullies picking on me - DM put this down to DB being too scared of them & laughed it off as my making a fuss about nothing.

Lots happened over the years, but DB & I don't speak - he has lied about my ignoring him, lied about my house being a pigsty to DM after I have put him up & kept him like a king & on & on (his is, mine isn't) - he is a Walter Mitty character & lives on stories of things I have done in life - so much so he has on occasions actually forgotten it was mY life, my holiday experience he was relating back to DH & I as his - he is f'ked up - drink, drugs you name it, but is a functioning addict, so holds down a job where according to DM he is king of the world & of course he doesn't drink or take drugs & I've already been told he will inherit everything notthat I want it, but how foolish to leave everything to your junky son

Sorry I've realised I've gone off into a complete rant - I think even though I know the effects my toxic family have on me & for the most part I do deal with it well & shrug it off & now have my own very happy family, it can still shake & upset me when things kick off again, just the unfairness I suppose & I'm currently annoyed as I realise my DM is of on one again, as my visiting with DD in the School holidays has become the only control she now has - so every time I mention visiting - she manipulates a row - often where I am saying absolutely nothing, & she is merrily making it all up to anyone listening behind - I still cried myself to sleep though, as they are both elderly & ill & I know that chances are my now been excommunicated again for this school holidays at least, means I may never see them again - it shouldn't hurt, but it does.

I will never understand my DBs now blatant hatred of me though - it should be the other way round surely, yet I've only ever helped him

whoops - novel over

'I still cried myself to sleep though, as they are both elderly & ill & I know that chances are my now been excommunicated again for this school holidays at least, means I may never see them again - it shouldn't hurt, but it does'

It does rockinhippy, it really does I notice you used 'shouldn't' - I am totally hung up on what 'should' and 'shouldn't' happen, rather than accepting things for how they are, which I think is a legacy of feeling the weight of my parents expectations on my shoulders all my life. When you have abusive unsupportive parents, it's all about them and what they want you to do for them, rather than what you want to do for yourself. So you worry about the impact of everything on others, rather than yourself.

It's bloody hard work undoing all this stuff! Your mother's treatment of you is horrible and totally unjustified. It's such a lonely place working through all these feelings. Like you, I have good days and bad days and something can set you off and lead you back into a dark place. I find talking and sharing on here really helps with the feelings of loneliness. Keep posting

It makes me think how lucky I am to have had so much therapy. sometimes you wonder if it was worth it, whether you drivvled on endlessly and nothing much was accomplished. Then you see that it facilitated a seismic shift, without which I would have been so royally fucked up beyond hope.

Things aren't perfect, mind - it is obvious, to me at least, though not necessarily to anyone else, that the legacy still lingers (how could it not?). I feel like an observer these days. I think when you have witnessed so much headfuckery that it makes your head, and soul, spin, you can go very quiet. Apart from anything, it is less than useless to confront these people and expect even basic human interaction: dialogue is impossible.

Your mother sounds desperately mentally ill hippy - not excusing her, it just seems obvious from your post. Now her son, your bro. That's the desolate thing imo, how they pass it on; how it doesn't end with them.

I think sometimes that something that we considered insignificant at the time, run of the mill, ended up being the crucial means of escaping from this hideous dynamic eg hippy, your job/career, living so far away.

Yes. I'm about to go to bed, but essentially I'm a snobby cow who thinks she is better than everyone else and knows more than everyone else.

I have contact, but it is sporadic and I keep them very far from my personal life.

'I have contact, but it is sporadic and I keep them very far from my personal life'

Same here yellow. Do you get attacks of guilt ever, where you worry that you're being a 'bad daughter', they need you really, they're getting older, they were good in some ways etc etc etc? I struggle with this a lot, even though I know it's caused by the FOG and all the conditioning that was laid down in my childhood, it's just so bloody hard to get over!

I see my mother precisely because of this Lottapianos. She was not the instigator of the family abuse, but neither did she do anything about it. she is in her 80s and very frail and deeply upset at the family goings-on (ie that I have cut them off for good). The last time I saw her was for 10 minutes. Next time it will be 5.

As my good friend said to me: she's been brainwashed. NOt an excuse but she's so ancient now...

springydaffs, it's so difficult. It's just about finding a way that you can live with the situation where the grief and guilt don't kill you. Good for you for being all about the boundaries - decide your own terms and stick to them.

I didn't do it overnight lotta - as with most abusive relationships, it takes a fair few tries to pull it off in the end. After I cut off the family (without a backward glance - though it has taken, in all, approx 20 years to do that fully) I continued to see her for lunch - old and distressed as she is. I found that after about 30 minutes I couldn't breath - and I was forbidden to talk about the family situation, even allude to it (the family script is that I'm forbidden to speak). She could talk about them when I didn't want to hear it but I wasn't 'allowed' to broach the subject. By the end of lunch I was half dead and one day refused to be silenced and ploughed on through - quite mildly, actually. She went ape. I cut her off then... but ancient/distressed... now I see her for an update. as I said, 10 mins max, working on 5. I doubt I'll be seeing her for those 5 mins for long iyswim. I love my mum dearly, and I tell her so; though I can't hand on heart say I love the others.

I recognise so much of what you say springydaffs - family script, not allowed to speak of certain things, feeling stifled, can't breathe, climbing the walls, feeling half dead..... These people are so very toxic and dysfunctional and so stressful to be around. It was always the same with my mum, she would talk at length about her relationship with my dad and anything else that was getting on her wick, but I was not allowed to respond or to contribute anything of my own to the conversation. And as for expecting her to listen to what I had to say about my own feelings and my own life....... It just wasn't allowed, there was no space. It's still the same now, but I realise that it's her problem and not my fault for being somehow 'wrong'.

Can I ask if you have had therapy/counselling? I've been seeing a therapist weekly for the last 2 years and I can see it continuing for many more years. I honestly don't know where I would be without it.

see some of my previous posts upthread re therapy

ie loads and loads and gearing up for a top up. You can't do without it imo, when yo've had the kind of shit headfuck deal we've had. I think you need it to undo all the conditioning that goes so deep because they were our primary carers. Then you need reminding - hence top ups now and again.

I can recognise the silencing & stifling too, though these days I don't hold any punches with speaking out to either DM or DF, but I still can't bring myself to speak out to extended family & tell it as it is truly is - my DM is very skilled at manipulating people & they all thing she is wonderful - bar my Aunts - who have seen her at full throttle - my Aunt (her sister) once told me DM hates women & I'm just unlucky enough to be one - DM gets very vicious or piles on the guilt trip with a trowel if she sees or hears of my having contact with any of them though, something as much as I recognise it for what it is, I still can't break it, IYSWIM I even find myself questioning if the nasty things she tells me they say/think of me are true even though I know its her way of controlling what I say - she even did it with my DGM, her own Mum - but I realised after DGM died that was pure jealousy on DMs part (she smashed up a box of DGMs belonging, things I had made as a DC & she had kept) I was always very close to my DGPs - with hindsight the the vast amount of time I spent with them & the balance they give to my DMs one sided DB idolising parenting, no doubt kept me sane :)

I do think I have gained from that silencing in a weird way though - I'm very good at biting my lip & not been drawn into arguments I see no point in - I will say my piece, but always in a way where I am in control - good example is an old male friends very manipulative DP - she is VERY controlling & has gradually seen off all his female friends - she needles & needles for a reaction - usually after they've had a few drinks & then when they finally blow - in veiw, but not earshot of her DP & have a go back - she runs crying to OF that they are being mean to her - he falls for it hook line & sinker & has lost countless long time friends as a result - she did it with me, yet thanks to DM I could sit calmly & say my piece quietly & calmly & not be seen to react at all - she was fuming - its come in very useful in many other situations too - even with work - every cloud as they say :)

I should probably add, that having firm boundaries still doesn't protect me from the worry & guilt though - sometimes it does, but its all flared up again this week, probably why I am opening up on here about it - which feels good :)

She kicked off last week - manipulated a situation on the phone to make me look like I was having a go at her - she was also deliberately needling me to react by going on & on about my DB & how wonderful he is - we haven't spoken in years & her stirs things up like you wouldn't believe - changing the subject several times had her frantically upping the anti & gloating over how good he is to her - he isn't at all - I know this was all down to my making plans to visit - she does it every time & I often end up not going as a result - I've realised as times gone on its about control though - she tells me when I CAN visit - in the middle of term time - as if I have to prove myself by keeping DD off school for DMs sake -

During the course of the conversation she had a go about my texting my DF & not her - SHE tells me she's so ill she can't use her phone or read/reply to texts - She had a go about my not ringing & speaking to her - SHE wouldn't come to the phone on the last few calls & on & on - I did remind her she can always ring me - she came up with all sorts of ridiculous excuses as to why her NEVER ringing me is MY fault - even tried to say she was doing me a favour - she probably IS, but not in the way she means - anyway after losing it completely as I was keeping calm & just repeating "I'm not interested in hearing about DB, I'm sure he won't want you telling me about him anyway, DD's done this - DDs fractured hand is better etc etc etc She blew up telling me " go on, cut me out of your life again, I don't ever want to speak to you anyway"

Yet a week later she can ring me on my mobile sobbing that they've just arrived in a hotel & that DF is trying to strangle her & that I don't know how evil he is & on & on & that he's tells her everything nasty I say about her that i am stupid to trust him, he's evil & I'm just as bad - on & on - most on my voicemail - I cut the phone off & sent her a very firm text reminding her that I am neither her emotional punch bag, nor her counsellor & that though I love her dearly & always will, but that I've learnt to love myself & DD more so will not accept this sort of emotional abuse any more & that though I can't be bothered to argue the point, her ability to ring me when she has things like this to say, but she's too ill & disabled at other times has not gone un noticed.

I then text them BOTH the same text - telling them to stop arguing in a hotel room ( I could hear DF in the back ground of her voicemail getting angry about her lying) they sound like something from the Jeremy Kyle show - common as muck (DM is the ultimate snob & looks down her nose at everyone) & not to involve me in something I could not help with from the other end of the country as it wasn't fair, especially as it will be forgotten in a day or so & they would still leave me worrying if they've killed each other - I also told DF to step away, get some air & remember that SHE can't help it as she is ill - DF at least replied with an apology for involving me - nothing from DM, who no doubt thinks I am an evil witch from hell [rolls eyes]

Despite standing up to her though - I STILL found it hard to settle last night & was worried sick that she would kill herself - totally irrational I know, but I suppose thats the legacy of having her try twice when I was a small DC & my being the one to have to get help for her - wish I could shake that one

I am not with my immediate family, but with Aunts, Uncles & cousins etc on my dad's side. I find it highly amusing tbh and put it down to jealousy.

They can't stand the fact that I'm marrying a lovely man in 10 days time, who took my DD on as his own child from a toddler and we now have DD2. I have a fabulous job and so does DP. We own a lovely house and considering I have several medical conditions, I live everyday normally rather than mope around like some of them do! I've had to invite them to our wedding so I don't hurt my dad, However, they will be sat at the back and by the exit! I very rarely see them and DP doesn't like being around them as he despises the way they treat me and we don't want our DD's subjected to their vileness!

I am the black sheep of DH's family and so have infected him with my black-sheep-ness. Sorry DH.

Jenner.I feel that as well. OH may be the black sheep of the family, but I am the idiot putting up with him, so therefore must be bonkers and a black sheep by association... also DS is the black sheep in training

Lottapianos I do get horribly guilty, although my mother seems to have given up with contact at the moment, so I don't so much atm. It's not like she makes any great effort to have a good relationship with me.

I worry a lot that one of them will get sick and what I would do in that situation. I don't think I'd be able to support them that much and be able to stay on the path of good mental health I'm on.

I know what you mean about being able to keep your cool when all barrels are firing. I do it at work - I work with ex-offenders who can really try to do your head in lol; they are so shocked when I don't bite and I am totally calm. I suppose I am shut right down, sealed off. I am totally calm with my adult children (and more than one of them is a chip of the evil block I'm sorry to say) and all relationships but not my family. My mum can get me to the point of unbelievable rage in a nanosecond. or, rather, I can get myself into an unbelievable rage in a nanosecond . ditto my family. I literally shake from the core, like a quaker. I once lost it totally with my sister, in the way you read about: literally, a red mist descended and I am quite certain I would've killed her if something hadn't broken the trance somehow. I was shocked about that. Of course, I haven't heard the end of it.

I guess a therapist would say I'm giving them my power. yy but where can you get that miracle that cuts off that link straight to your heart? I find that when I'm in therapy - and therefore have support - I'm fine. My family look tickety-boo to the rest of the world. In fact, when we're all together (or were all together) you'd never meet such a glowing, scintillating bunch. Except me - I'm the one they take pops at and treat like the servant if they can get away with it, which they can't.

Is there room at the table for one more to join in?
Baaa

Seriously, I have an ache in my chest and a need to cry reading through this thread. I recognise so much of it.
I have never felt 'good enough'. I strongly wondered if I have Aspergers because I was told so often that I was over-sensitive, no self control, no-one would ever like me, I had no social skills apparently.

I constantly check my relationships with others (cause they couldnt possibly like me for me.)
On the few occasions that I have a compliment or support from my DM, I feel overwhelmed. It's too much to cope with. It's like a tiny drop of water on a parched plant- just enough to tease but not enough to sustain.

Like so many of you, I cannot spend time with them without becoming this weak, boundaryless person who is the butt of all their issues. Its horrible.