marriage advice from muslim women please!

[HardlyEverHoovers]

(and also non-Muslim women if you have any insights!)

Hello/asalam u alikumm and also Ramadan Mubarek. This is my first post, after browsing for some time, so please forgive me for any mistakes in etiquette.
I need some advice regarding my marriage, and from reading some old posts it seemed other muslim women may have dealt with similar issues. I'd be particularly grateful for advice from anyone who has managed to move beyond the point I'm at now.
I converted, by the Grace of God, to Islam about 8 years ago, I got married about 3 years ago, to a Muslim man from a different country, who has a position of authority within the Muslim community. We now have an 18 month old son and live in the UK.
My husband is great in terms of practical help in the house and with the baby and all that, and the bottom line is that he is a good man. However, he has restricted my freedom more than I could ever have imagined. There are a couple of things I do regularly (go to the local shops alone and meet wiht some Muslim women once a month a so) but to do anything beyond this takes a lot of negotiation and is met with much grumpiness and dissapproval. Even a simple thing as taking the baby to the park with a friend. I no longer am able to visit my family for a night without my husband, let along go and stay with friends. I don't attend any Islamic events or lectures (before marriage I was active in the Muslim community). I may occasionally be able to meet a friend or go to town alone, but I find the process of getting him to agree so stressful that I don't really bother asking.
Sometimes he will just say no, and not have a good reason, which is bad enough, but a lot of the time he gets his way by making everything around an event so stressful that I never do it again. Frequently I have been in floods of tears minutes before I'm due to go out, friends to arrive etc. I'm reluctant to resort to the word abuse, but this sort of behaviour makes me feel that way.
I am becoming very isolated, and I'm concerned that my relationship with my non-Muslim family, which has always been positive, is being affected.
On an emotional level I feel that I can't be myself. he doesn't respect my needs or my emotions. If I try to talk to him about how I feel, I get hit with the Islam hammer, and made to feel that my feelings are 'wrong' Islamically.
There was no warning of this before marriage, either in what I had seen of him (he was my teacher before we married) or in the discussions we had before marriage.
Because of the baby I've tried to keep a very peaceful atmosphere despite all this, but I am feeling I really need to take action as it is making me emotionally and physically unwell. I have had several miscarriages this year, and I believe that stress is not helping.
I've tried to be brief here, I can say more if needed. Has anyone dealt with similar issues in a positive way? I would hate the marriage to end and my family to break up, but I really can't imagine living like this forever.
Thank you.

[fuzzywuzzy]

You've done really well mashallah.

Ignore him.

There's no balme on you for his actions.

He doesn't wish to fast, his cghcoie, why is he taunting you for going ahead and fasting? Is he always so delightful?

[ErikNorseman]

Yummytummy he is awful :( what kind of husband is he, let alone what kind of Muslim? How unpleasant he is. And he's undermining your religious beliefs, you are really not obligated to stay with him.

[yummytummy]

he has become a lot worst since i had second dc, not sure why. i know i may not be obligated but isnt divorce haraam and hated by allah? its also culturally it is just not done, even though he really has made me suffer a lot in so many ways but i am running out of patience now.

[ErikNorseman]

Look, I'm not Muslim but married to one. I have a lot of love for Islam but cannot accept that a wOman should stay with a violent abuser.
I am separated from H and my ILs still love me. My SIL is divorced from her abusive h and lives back with her family.

[fuzzywuzzy]

No divorce is not haram, what makes you think that?
There is a chapter in the Quran called divorce, read it in English translation if you like it's quite short.

Islam recognises that not all people are compatible and that people change over time and has provided a way out.

Divorce is permissable and a right for both men and women since the time of the Prophet (saw). There's a story of a woman who told the Prophet (saw) she wanted to divorce her husband for no other reason then that she just did not like him nothing to do with his manners or character, she was permitted a divorce.

[HardlyEverHoovers]

Asalam u alikum dear Yummytummy, I'm so sorry you've had this experience. Of course you are not responsible for whether your husband fasts, rather he will be held responsible for this, and also the fact he had made it difficult for his family.
Remember that every sehri and iftar you took alone, Allah was with you.

[HardlyEverHoovers]

Followingthetao, many thanks for your long and thoughtful post. Your advice is very helpful. I agree with the language issue. While DH has come a long way with his English, not nearly as much as we would have hoped. I'm not sure why this is as he speaks several other languages which he learnt very quickly. He's quite frustrated by it, so I don't want to nag him, and he is constantly attending classes etc so will get their in the end.
It's a frustration of mine that he doesn't seem to try to empathise with the culture here, not to agree with it if he doesn't want to, but you need to understand where people are coming from.
For example we were at the market one day, and a man accidentally bumped into me, and when he apologised he put his hand on my arm. DH was furious, but I was trying to explain that in this culture that was a normal thing to do, and also quite nice. So while I don't like being touched by strange men, I understand that persons intention was good.
Another person who posted on here described him as a scared animal and that's how he seems to me, just lashing out at everything.
A positive example was when we had my family over for a barbecue. As this involved cooking meat on a fire and ensuring my family ate as much as is humanly possible, my DH was in his element, smiling, laughing and being a good host. Normally if we have them to dinner he would be polite but quite quiet, not really being used to the English 'dinner round the table format'.
I love the look of the book, I'll buy it for him in a few months when he'll hopefully be able to read it!

[StuntGirl]

Genuinely curious, if neither of you speak each others language very well how do you communicate on a day-to-day basis?

[Krumbum]

Don't discuss or ask him first, just go out. If he calls just say I'm with a friend I'll be back at x time.
If asking first (although why would you be?) causes problems then don't do it, just go, he will have to get used to it. Text him to let him know where you and baby are etc so he doesn't worry but other than that be firm and stand your ground.

[HardlyEverHoovers]

Stunt, we do speak eachothers languages, just not fluently, so day to day stuff is no problem.
Krumbum, although I see what you are saying, I don't think I would ever really want to go out without checking it's OK, because that's only what I'd expect from him in return. It's not the asking I mind, it's getting a reasonable answer that's the problem. I don't even mind the 'no' if there's a reason for it.
I think as Muslim women the 'asking' is quite important, but it's also important to get a reasonable response.
Having said that over the last week I have done things like pop to the shop etc without asking if he's sleeping, whereas before I'd have prob waited til he got up, so small changes are happening!

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

Eid Mubarak

I am british Christian married to a North African muslim, we have been married for more than a decade and live in the UK. Our children are being brought up as muslims.

I have to say that some of the marriages described here do not sound like Islamic marriages. My understanding (please feel free to correct me) is that a Muslim husband must treat his wife with respect and kindness. Any husband who taunts his fasting wife is not a good husband nor a good muslim (its obvious to me and I am not even a muslim). Any husband who puts his own interests first without considering his wife's interests is not a good husband nor a good muslim. They have failed in the requirements Allah has placed on them and they will answer for it. Yummy it is your husband's duty to fast, if he has turned his back on his duty, he is the one who is answerable.

Amongst my DH's family and friends the women don't ask permission to act on an everyday basis. Their husband's and families trust them to make the right choices and to behave appropriately, just like my DH and I trust each other to do so. They do not need advice or guidance, (unless they ask for it) because they understand their religion and they know how to behave.

In DH's home culture (rural North Africa) women tend to be SAHM although more are working now. But the women do go out when they need to or if they want to visit family, they are not expected to remain in the home unless they choose to. I think some of the restrictions that some husbands try to place on their wives are cultural norms rather than religious requirements and so it is reasonable for you to challenge them because they are not given by Allah but created by man.

BTW one way I have found of challenging DH if he is ever being grumpy or disrespectful that seems to work is to ask him "which bit of the Qu'ran permits you to speak to me like that?" It makes him stop and think about his behaviour because he is a nice man but like us all has the odd bad day.

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

Yummy I meant to add I think the reason your husband taunted you for fasting was because your observance reminded him of his own failure and he turned his shame into anger against you. He was weak and you were strong.

[Krumbum]

I understand that checking with someone is nice but if they are not giving you suitable, reasonable answers then sometimes you must resort to just doing in order to send a message and have your own freedom.
If you checking with him isn't working then a different tack is needed. It is not worth making yourself unhappy when he is being unreasonable.

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

I should make it clear when I ask my DH that killer question he doesn't answer because he knows full well that no bit of the Qu'ran permits him to speak to me like that!

[HardlyEverHoovers]

Eid Mubarek everyone, may God accept our fasting and our worship and forgive us our shortcomings.

Yes Krumbrum I see what you mean.

I think you summed this up perfectly Chazs...

"Their husband's and families trust them to make the right choices and to behave appropriately, just like my DH and I trust each other to do so. They do not need advice or guidance, (unless they ask for it) because they understand their religion and they know how to behave".

As for me, things are rather nice in my house at the moment, though I am aware that it may be a bit of a calm after the storm of our big discussions, and things tend to go back to the not so good normal after a while. I'm quite determined to be assertive and make sure this doesn't happen.
At the moment though, we are enjoying Eid and looking forward to a few days camping holiday later in the week, so I feel this is a nice time to 'nurture' the relationship.

This thread has been a lifeline to me this Ramadan, thanks so much for all the contributions.

[yummytummy]

eid mubarak to you all. hardlyever i am glad things are calmer for you thats great. unfortunately it looks as if shaytaan is most definitely released now as ramadan is over and my husband has become his usual nasty self. i know somewhere its not right but surely it isnt normal to be called a stupid cow over little disagreements? i am reaching my limit and dont think can stay being called a different thing every day. its usually stupid or fat or lazy.

i just want to ask if anyone knows how to do a divorce islamically iykwim? i think its easier for the man but am unsure how you do it as a woman.

every day i lose respect as he is mean in a different way and it is no longer a partnership.

[HardlyEverHoovers]

Oh yummymummy you poor thing, it sounds awful.
I'll PM you what I know regarding divorce, but I'd try and go to a local Imam and ask for help with this.

[worldcitizen]

Hello all, I am sorry to barge in here, with something which is totally irrelevant and off-topic...but I just wanted to express to you all, how wonderful it is to read this thread.
I apologise to the OP and others, as serious personal issues are at stake here and what I think about this thread in general is so off-topic, but for some reason I feel very much at peace and very soothed (for lack of a better word) reading all this.

It is such a 'different' marriage and relationship advice, it seems to be addressing these issues with such complexity and differentiates between individual personalities, couples dynamics, religion, culture, tradition, etc. in a way, I have rarely encountered on other threads.
Especially without pointing fingers, aggression, or blame...very touched by all this here.

[ErikNorseman]

Yummytummy you poor thing :( No this is no way to live. He's a nasty bully.

[HardlyEverHoovers]

worldcitizen, thanks for your very welcome contribution, and your lovely words. Actually it's really nice to hear that, I was more than hesitant about posting about something like this on an open forum, not least because people already have negative views about Islam and Muslim men (not all people I realise), that I worried about just adding to the stereotypes. It's nice to know that through the thoughfulness of everyone who had contributed, something better than this has come through.

[worldcitizen]

hardly thank you very much for the welcome. My respect for you having gone ahead and have chosen to post here. This thread with all these kind, thoughtful and sensible posters, in my view, has all the 'ingredients' to dispel these negative views.
Anyone, honest and fair enough, would read this and couldn't deny to be somehow touched by this peaceful atmosphere on here. It's hard to describe.

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

Yummy I am sorry to hear that you are having such a difficult time. Your husband's behaviour is not acceptable.

This might give you some background information
www.muslimmarriagecontract.org/divorce.html

A woman can divorce her husband for cruelty (for example) without his permission. Name calling, taunting you for fasting etc may well fall within that sort of area.

I found the link to it here
www.mwnuk.co.uk/What_We_Do_137_c.php#A3

It might be worth checking with the Muslim Womens Network if they can direct you to any advice.

[tzella]

Hi ChazsBrilliantAttitude - can I PM you?