marriage advice from muslim women please!

[HardlyEverHoovers]

(and also non-Muslim women if you have any insights!)

Hello/asalam u alikumm and also Ramadan Mubarek. This is my first post, after browsing for some time, so please forgive me for any mistakes in etiquette.
I need some advice regarding my marriage, and from reading some old posts it seemed other muslim women may have dealt with similar issues. I'd be particularly grateful for advice from anyone who has managed to move beyond the point I'm at now.
I converted, by the Grace of God, to Islam about 8 years ago, I got married about 3 years ago, to a Muslim man from a different country, who has a position of authority within the Muslim community. We now have an 18 month old son and live in the UK.
My husband is great in terms of practical help in the house and with the baby and all that, and the bottom line is that he is a good man. However, he has restricted my freedom more than I could ever have imagined. There are a couple of things I do regularly (go to the local shops alone and meet wiht some Muslim women once a month a so) but to do anything beyond this takes a lot of negotiation and is met with much grumpiness and dissapproval. Even a simple thing as taking the baby to the park with a friend. I no longer am able to visit my family for a night without my husband, let along go and stay with friends. I don't attend any Islamic events or lectures (before marriage I was active in the Muslim community). I may occasionally be able to meet a friend or go to town alone, but I find the process of getting him to agree so stressful that I don't really bother asking.

Sometimes he will just say no, and not have a good reason, which is bad enough, but a lot of the time he gets his way by making everything around an event so stressful that I never do it again. Frequently I have been in floods of tears minutes before I'm due to go out, friends to arrive etc. I'm reluctant to resort to the word abuse, but this sort of behaviour makes me feel that way.
I am becoming very isolated, and I'm concerned that my relationship with my non-Muslim family, which has always been positive, is being affected.
On an emotional level I feel that I can't be myself. he doesn't respect my needs or my emotions. If I try to talk to him about how I feel, I get hit with the Islam hammer, and made to feel that my feelings are 'wrong' Islamically.
There was no warning of this before marriage, either in what I had seen of him (he was my teacher before we married) or in the discussions we had before marriage.

Because of the baby I've tried to keep a very peaceful atmosphere despite all this, but I am feeling I really need to take action as it is making me emotionally and physically unwell. I have had several miscarriages this year, and I believe that stress is not helping.
I've tried to be brief here, I can say more if needed. Has anyone dealt with similar issues in a positive way? I would hate the marriage to end and my family to break up, but I really can't imagine living like this forever.
Thank you.

I doubt a church group would exclude you, is it a playgroup? I think you would be surprised.

sis, is the issue you dont know where to go, or that he doesnt let you go?

do you not meet people in the park? at the shops etc? what about the nieghbours, or local school fairs etc?

have you tried meeting other people in your area through forums and face book etc?

Try the groups, definitely! Go to all of them, and see which ones you like.

Most people don't ask or even think about religion at toddler groups, it shouldn't be an issue.

My ex was a muslim, i was with him for 10 years, 3 in his country.

I can tell you your marriage is no different to how mine was.

I ended up with agoraphobia, from the literal weeks and weeks of not being able or allowed to get out of the house. The longest period indoors, without setting foot outside, was 10 weeks, and only then because i was bleeding to death with a mc. Only just made it.

I was a good wife, respectful, fearful and loyal.

Please understand that the way it is, is the way it always will be.

The abuse is still abuse, no matter if you do it in the name of islam, or because that's how your dad treated your mum.

I attend counselling, a domestic abuse support group, and have done the freedom programme.

This man is dangerous to you, to your dc, and your sanity.

Don't try to negotiate, there's no point, he sees this as his right to treat you like this. You've got no chance he'll ever change.

Don't stop until you are out of there, don't do counselling, don't seek help from the imam, they'll only push you back down.

You chose the wrong man, cut your losses, get out and go back to doing the spiritual things you used to, that made you happy and fulfilled.

I can't tell you how many stories I've heard that are identical to yours; active muslim sisters stripped of all their valid and totally legitimate social activities, some that were forced home, thousands of miles away, leaving their children with his mother.

It broke my heart to see the cruelty perpetrated in the name, or more accurately, under the guise of such a peaceful religion.

Save yourself the therapy, save yourself the pain, please get out.

Meant to say, my poor son was stuck indoors with me too, I'm lucky he came out of it ok, but i had to choose a very different kind of nursery, to ease him into playing with other children.

We only really started our proper life as mum and boy when we came home. He was 3.5. Before then, we were cell mates.

" I was a good wife, respectful, fearful and loyal. "

All I'm going to say here is that no wife should fear her husband (or vice versa.)
Respect, yes, provided he earns it; loyalty, goes without saying; fear?

Hell, no.

Cattyness, thanks for joining the thread, it sounds like we have some similar issues. Hope the advice on here helps you as well.

Highjumphissy, thanks for your post and for sharing what you've been through. I don't feel I can take your advice, though I understand why you gave me that advice from what you've been through. If I ever leave, I'll need to feel I've done everything in my power to save the marriage, and at the moment I couldn't say I have.
InshAllah after Ramadan I'll be approaching my husband about getting some mediation. I'll post any progress on here!

Cailleach, agree with you. I was wrong, but what i lived made me fearful. That's how you're expected to be.

Op, a billion NO's to your mediation!, please don't disregard my words, i spent 3 years, totally isolated, kicked, shouted at, humiliated.

I tried to find a way, ANY way to make my 'Marriage' work. The goal posts get shifted just to weaken you further.

Whatever yo do,say, think, don't think, it won't matter, its his right to treat you like this.

I would beg my H to not be so mean, i didn't even ask him to be nice, but he DIDNT WANT TO. Your H doesnt want to either, he'd sooner eat Pork than give you YOUR FREEDOM BACK.

Please read Why Does He Do that. By lundy bancroft. It'll help you see what the dynamic is.

This is supposed to be a marriage, not a sentence.

Don't put yourself through this, you won't 'win '

You poor love, having had 'several' miscarriages already this year. I do hope that he's allowing you enough time for recovery before impregnating you again.

If not, then he is also sexually abusing you, too.

Erik: yep it's a playgroup. I've found their number so will call them tomorrow. Who knows, I may even make friends there though I don't want to come across too desperate.

Nailak: it's abit of both. If I had somewhere I wanted to go I don't think he'd stop me but he wouldn't be keen which after three years isn't something I care about. I'm a reasonable person, I expect the same from him.
Problem with where I live is everyone knows my in laws and some of the women that have approached me make a point of bitching about her. I dont like that and feel people like that can really ruin your relationships. You know, narrow minded, uneducated, indian drama watching types which personally i dont have much in common with anyway. If they were into religion then I would hug them. I think it's this town, honestly, it shelters them and they lose basic manners. Whenever I've asked people about Islamic events I get the usual blank stares. I promise you I'm not exaggerating. It seems that the normal educated women go out to work even as mums and naive me has chosen to be a sahm. In some areas of the country it is seen as a privilege but over here they think you're too thick to work as most of the sahm are women from back home. I have a good degree from a decent uni but I don't want to leave my son and I just don't need the money but i have realised very slowly that the only way you get a life is if you work. Most sahm over here spend their time going to each others houses and gossip etc but I want something abit more productive for us. Playgroup sounds fun. We had an appointment at the docs and he was playing with all these other kids. I was so happy cos I could see he was.

Hardlyeverhoovers: thanks, you seem very wise and your husband doesn't sound like a nasty person tbh just needs to understand a few things. Crescentmoon is giving really good advice. I'm picking up some good tips so thanks.

Tb that's terribly presumptuous of you

And naila k and ummuno, loads of great advice I'm catching up on now. Thankyou ladies.

I am becoming very isolated, and I'm concerned that my relationship with my non-Muslim family, which has always been positive, is being affected.

I am in a cross-cultural marriage, and while I haven't had anything like the issues that you have, OP, I can empathise with the above.

We live in my wife's country and now live with her extended family - an arrangement which will come to an end soon. While they are all very nice, having their culture so in-my-face can be unbearable. I only recently moved in here, and nearly all my friends live a two-hour train ride away. I can speak the language, but not quite to the point where I can relax in it. So over meals, they speak to each other at breakneck speed, and I have to concentrate very very hard to join in. After a few minutes, this becomes exhausting, and I opt out, only joining in if spoken to.

This has meant that every so often I absolutely long for an evening out with everything in English. However, the train ride meant that when I arrived to meet my friends, I'd have to up and leave about an hour and a half later to get back. Hence the thorny issue of staying overnight with friends and coming back the next day being raised, which utterly mortified my very conservative mother-in-law, who became convinced I wanted a bit on the side. My wife was much better about it. It took quite a lot of convincing the mother-in-law that I needed some escape time, and this was mostly done by my wife. I don't think she means to be difficult - she is old, conservative and has never even met a foreigner, and she wasn't doing anything wrong, so I didn't enjoy telling her. But she came through, and now it is a non-issue.

You definitely need to tell your husband how you feel, or get someone else to if he won't listen to you.

catty defo go to playgroup, for me childrens centre is what keeps me sane.

I would agree keep away from the type you decribe. but what about the girls in late teens and early twenties? they are normally quite aware?

I also understand what you say about work and totally get where you are coming from, I went to work for a while to keep myself sane.

But what I realised is that paid employment is not neccessarily the only way to do this. I know at the moment it might be a bit like telling someone who cant walk to run, but the same satisfaction you get through work can be got through community and voluntary activities.

So maybe find the childrens centre and playgroups, become involved in the advisory panel of them, or become a community governor for a nursery, look up muslim organisations and volunteer for them, such as www.solaceuk.org if they are not active in your city ask them if they would be interested if you coukld finf others in becoming active, once you meet 2 or 3 people have circles in your home, just discuss issues or go through tasfir orr anything, you will probably find there are others in same boat as you.

Also Muslim charities, if you do fundraising etc it is a good way to get to know people, and it might be silly but i did avon for a bit, and i really got to know the neighbours that way, the muslims invited me and the kids in for tea and everything,

go to playgroup religiously, make it priority to find out all the kids activities in your area and get out at least every other day, increase your own esteem and confidence through interacting with other mums.

if anyone mentions your in laws just tell them to stop. imagine someone was bitching about you to a family member, would you rather them sit and listen or say something. even if you dont get on with in laws, just tell them that you rather they didnt create fitnah in your marriage.

if you pm me and tell me where you live, i could see if i can find some sisters in the area to help you out. stuff like circles etc in peoples houses you only get invited to through knowing people, otherwise you dont know they exist.

Also personally i didnt start making friends until my oldest dd was in nursery, and i was mixing regularly with the other parents, i think the time between 0-3 is very lonely, then after that it gets better.

a good sister once gave advice that 90% of your emotional needs you should take care of yourself. and 10% shared with your husband, if you give me your email, i will forward you the marriage circle emails they are very useful, even if not to fix your marriage, to help yourself, also if you are on fb there are some helpful groups i can add you to inshallah.

get in touch sis, i will make dua for you.

hardlyever the same advice and offers of help goes to you too, or any other sisters reading this who are in the same position.

as well as solace there is also this charity nour-dv.org.uk/ that can provide help and support. just incase anyone searching this topic or lurking needs it.

#itsallaboutthelurkers

Hardlyever you said this:

A couple of you asked if he asks me if he can do things? The funny thing is that he does, and he hardly does anything anyway. Just this month he decided to stay after the tarawi prayer until fajr in the mosque, which made perfect sense to me, but he was very considerate about asking if that was OK, if I would manage with the baby, feel scared in the house alone etc. So in this regard I don't really mind 'asking' in the sense of just checking it's ok, not clashing with his plans, etc etc. But I really mind having to fight for a justify the most simple outing

You said you were well travelled before your marriage. Why would your husband be assuming that you would be unable to cope with your baby or scared in the house.

I guess it rang alarm bells for me because my exh used to undermine me in the care DS (telling not to carry him on the stairs as I'd drop him.. or that his Mum was better with DS than me etc. He also used to do that gaslighty thing of saying 'does it not worry to travel alone/go out after dark/be in public where people might hurt you? )

You need him to understand that you are still the capable strong well travelled woman he married and that is part of what will make you a 'good muslim wife'

In fact not letting go of your 'self' is what will make you a 'good happy wife'

Incidentally exdh claimed to be a Muslim and quoted all sorts of nonsense at me that has nothing to do with Islam...I also think it was more about him being an arse than about his religion

Not much time to reply at the mo, just want to make it clear there has never been even a whisper of physical or sexual abuse of any kind.

Wow. Thankyou. Totally get it and all of what you said is something I am working on. It's sad, when I met my husband (arranged) I told him I wanted to base our marriage on Islam not culture so he better clue himself up if he wanted to marry me but that was a waste of conversation. Should've just drawn up a contract. I was so naive. My parents blame me now for not being clever. I just trusted he wouldn't abuse my god fearing vulnerability. I don't think he abuses it deliberately, he's just comfortable.

Crescent may I message you as I really could do with a confidante especially as you know the score? I just don't want to let the cat out of the bag on here plus don't hijacking threads. Please let me know as just want to tell you my story and see what you think?

Thankyou nailak. I'm sorry I only just saw your post. Will message you now.