marriage advice from muslim women please!

[HardlyEverHoovers]

(and also non-Muslim women if you have any insights!)

Hello/asalam u alikumm and also Ramadan Mubarek. This is my first post, after browsing for some time, so please forgive me for any mistakes in etiquette.
I need some advice regarding my marriage, and from reading some old posts it seemed other muslim women may have dealt with similar issues. I'd be particularly grateful for advice from anyone who has managed to move beyond the point I'm at now.
I converted, by the Grace of God, to Islam about 8 years ago, I got married about 3 years ago, to a Muslim man from a different country, who has a position of authority within the Muslim community. We now have an 18 month old son and live in the UK.
My husband is great in terms of practical help in the house and with the baby and all that, and the bottom line is that he is a good man. However, he has restricted my freedom more than I could ever have imagined. There are a couple of things I do regularly (go to the local shops alone and meet wiht some Muslim women once a month a so) but to do anything beyond this takes a lot of negotiation and is met with much grumpiness and dissapproval. Even a simple thing as taking the baby to the park with a friend. I no longer am able to visit my family for a night without my husband, let along go and stay with friends. I don't attend any Islamic events or lectures (before marriage I was active in the Muslim community). I may occasionally be able to meet a friend or go to town alone, but I find the process of getting him to agree so stressful that I don't really bother asking.
Sometimes he will just say no, and not have a good reason, which is bad enough, but a lot of the time he gets his way by making everything around an event so stressful that I never do it again. Frequently I have been in floods of tears minutes before I'm due to go out, friends to arrive etc. I'm reluctant to resort to the word abuse, but this sort of behaviour makes me feel that way.
I am becoming very isolated, and I'm concerned that my relationship with my non-Muslim family, which has always been positive, is being affected.
On an emotional level I feel that I can't be myself. he doesn't respect my needs or my emotions. If I try to talk to him about how I feel, I get hit with the Islam hammer, and made to feel that my feelings are 'wrong' Islamically.
There was no warning of this before marriage, either in what I had seen of him (he was my teacher before we married) or in the discussions we had before marriage.
Because of the baby I've tried to keep a very peaceful atmosphere despite all this, but I am feeling I really need to take action as it is making me emotionally and physically unwell. I have had several miscarriages this year, and I believe that stress is not helping.
I've tried to be brief here, I can say more if needed. Has anyone dealt with similar issues in a positive way? I would hate the marriage to end and my family to break up, but I really can't imagine living like this forever.
Thank you.

[Isitme1]

Mashallah. It's nice he helps out!
I think he needs a bit if a push to realise what he's doing is wrong.

In the end I said to dh I'm British your not and that's our difference. You don't understand my way of living and I don't understand yours but I accept it and you have to accept mine others there's nothing left with us.m
He kinda clicked on. Slips up sometimes but males there have all the dominance as they have seen that happen with their own families and for them it's normal. For us it's not.
Hth but don't do anything too extreme as I don't want the gunnah on our heads. Try to reason with him.
X

[Ragdoll12]

Salaam hardlyever, I cannot view those videos on my device but I am intrigued. Why not show the videos to your dh? Maybe it will get him to think. If I can view this on my dh desktop, I will leave the window open and hope he has a look and then maybe talk to him about it. It's just an idea...

Crescent, I've been exactly as you describe. Time for a change in tactics. Allah knows our intentions. They drive us to become this way. We are not being unreasonable. They just need a push as isitme1 said. Happy mum...happy baby and all that. We do it for the greater good.

[Isitme1]

Crescentmoon I would love more info on how you changed him as at the moment in time I went one step forward at 2 back.
Lol
In a bit of a tiff over a bed he thinks I should ask my dad as he's not with us which really got to me.
The bed is close to nothing now and I know dad will just say fix it

[yummytummy]

salaam sisters, firstly some fantastic advice here, its so nice to hear marriage advice from an islamic perspective as its so much more about compromise rather than just leaving when things get tough. unfortunately i have no more tips to add. i myself am having trouble and also feel that dh has become very controlling and i too feel isolated and scared. its worse as i am now no longer working so mainly at home. i am also afraid of his temper as he can be violent and abusive. just feel as if every day is a struggle and the only affection and hugs i get are from kids when wish it could be from him.

sorry to hijack but so good to share. someone mentioned up the thread about finding out local groups and things, how do i do this?

op i hope you will be able to discuss things with your dh and come to an understanding. he should respond if he sees how much it upsets you not to go out etc. good luck!

[Ragdoll12]

Salaam yummy,
I am sorry about what you are going through. You shouldn't have to take violent and abusive behaviour. Has he always had a temper or just more recently? Do you think he could be stressed about something you're not aware of like work or his family? Are you able to speak to him? Sit him down and gently talk to him about how he's making you feel. Is he a religious man? If so, if you make him aware of his behaviour I am sure he will feel guilty. If he wont speak to you about it and carries on regardless you need to ask for help. Do you have family who could intervene and find out what's going on? Sorry for all the questions. My dh is very controlling etc and i am working on that (see the above posts by some very wise sisters) but I wouldn't stand for violent behaviour as there is no need for it.

Following sister crescent's advice, I have joined netmums online and it tells you about all the playgroup and kids' activities in your area and i have also placed a 'meet a mum' ad. or you could do a search on mumsnet or even just a google search and see what comes up. Or email your local council, library.

HTH x

[ErikNorseman]

Yummy tummy
I would hope that nobody on this thread would advise you to 'compromise' with a 'violent, abusive' man who scares you. If he is abusive then you should make plans to leave. No religion or culture Justifies staying in an abusive marriage.

[HardlyEverHoovers]

crescentmoon, may Allah reward you for transcribing the talk, mashAllah.
Yummymummy, welcome to the thread, I'm so glad you've found it useful. You mentioning him being violent is very worrying though, not sure if you meant towards you, or does he throw things round the house and stuff (also horrible but at least not directed at you).
In the introduction to 'the surrendered wife' there's an important distinction the author makes, where she outlines men who shouldn't be surrendered to. One of those if men who are physically abusive. Interestingly, she says that emotionally abusive men have the potential to change. I suppose because by changing our behaviour they may change theirs, as crescentmoon illustrated.
But if he's violent towards you yummymummy please seek help from family, friends or the Muslim community if you have access.

[Isitme1]

Mashallah that was very empowering.
if that's the right word lol
That's right no woman no matter what religion should have to stick with a violent man.

Mashallah dh isn't violent just hmm what's the word... Needy. He's had a lot to deal with in his life and has had to raise his siblings with nothing in a 3rd world country. He doesn't know how to deal with the stress anymore.
He doesn't agree with oppression and all that but he doesn't want to see the hard ships he's seen in the past again.

Writing that has kind of made me realise that mashallah dh isn't a bad guy, he's just a little lost and confused sometimes.

Inshallah things will get better and God does not give us more than we can bear
X

[HardlyEverHoovers]

Back to my own situation, I slipped up last night and ended up having the conversation I had been intending to save until after ramadan. I had overheard my husband talking with my friends husband about 'keeping women in their houses' (friends husband looked suitably appalled), and couldn't help asking him later if he really meant it. That led to everything coming out. It was horrible, a horrible conversation, a horrible confrontation, a waste of one of the last 10 days of Ramadan. I don't think I've ever cried so much, and was still crying at 5pm today.
We decided to go and have iftar on top of a mountain, and that had a calming affect. Although it felt awful, I can now pick through it and see that it wasn't all bad. He was shocked by what I was saying, and that's good because that means my message came across. Out of the 4 main points I raised he agreed to all but one, and that one is probably the easiest to forgo. I remember thinking last time we had a similar confrontation (very rare, as we are both passive aggressive types and avoid confrontation like the plague) that however awful it was and not nice things got said, in the end we felt better for it. Is that how arguing is??? (anyone who does it more often?)
In terms of mediation, the only thing he would consider is us talking to his brother. While I'd be happy to talk to his brother, who is much more sensible, it would mean being in my husbands home country, and I would have no one to speak on my side, so I don't feel happy with that. I think I am going to have to push further.
We agreed today that we would talk more after Ramadan when we were both less tired and upset, and he promised he would try and be better. I know he's scared of losing me, I can see it in his eyes, and I think I need to play on that.
I still feel bruised, scared and fragile from the confrontation. Any advice, words of comfort appreciated!

[Eurostar]

OP - religion or no religion your husband's behaviour comes across as sounding like someone who is increasingly insecure and unsure about his place and status in the world. His asking you if you are OK alone, worried about managing etc. could easily be unconscious projection of his own insecurities.

If he is a good and supportive partner, he will let you do whatever you need and want to do, if he does not, as far as I am concerned, he is hiding behind his religion and culture to cover up his own inner doubts and fears - therefore bringing you down rather than giving yourselves both the opportunity to grow together. For instance, it sounds like he enjoys helping around the house but fears to show visitors this - if he had more confidence in himself, he would be able to not fear judgement.

It's not easy at all to change countries and to live somewhere where you have to learn customs and language rather than growing up with innate knowledge, have moved countries several times myself. The best thing you can do for the both of you really is to act with confidence, to do what you judge best, to go where you need and want to go.

[Eurostar]

Cross posted with you OP - I see now that you bring up his fear of losing you. If he is full of fear, don't "play on it" the more fearful he becomes, the more likely he is to become more angry and controlling. Think of a scared threatened animal, what do they do? They attack. Be confident, be firm, he married you as you are, he has no right to expect you to change to give him his little corner of power in the world.

[Isitme1]

It's good that it's out in the open as now you've got the worst bit out of the way and by the sound of it you've got through to him to (think baby steps though)
Inshallah everything will get better
X

[Isitme1]

And Eurostar is right. The fear is a good thing but don't give in to it
X

[HardlyEverHoovers]

Eurostar, thanks for that wisdom, and you've really hit on the truth I think. I really feel for him for what he has gone through in adapting to living here, and that was following having a very bad experience in his last job in the country we lived before, so he was emotionally drained when he arrived. To be honest, while I know all this I've got fed up of making excuses for him and being patient. But I think what you said about not playing on his fear is true, thank you.
He is VERY worried what people think, and I find this really hard to understand as I've never cared, and care less and less the older I get.
Actually it's funny because when we visit his country, and I feel completely at sea and don't know whats going on, I understand much better the way he behaves when he's here.

[CoteDAzur]

Very interesting re ask culture vs guess culture.

Mine is a guess culture, as well. I would understand that most Muslim places have a guess culture, since the ummah is such an important part of Muslims' lives. No Muslim (or even anyone else in these countries) is an island, everyone lives within a tightly knit society where all their actions are observed and judged as appropriate or not.

[CoteDAzur]

I'm curious about the ratio of men vs women who convert to Islam. Are there many men who convert? And if so, did any of you consider marrying one of those rather than foreigners alien to your way of life, some of whom don't even speak English well enough to communicate beyond day to day stuff?

[HardlyEverHoovers]

Thanks for the interesting post crescent.
Cote, definately more women than men, by statistics and my own observations. Hence these men are a bit like gold dust. That said, convert women often feel they would benefit from marrying someone from a Muslim culture, not sure how they feel about that once they've done it (!).
I know a few couples where both are converts, and have a pakistani friend who's just married an English man, with the support of her family despite the fact that he is older, divorced and has children. Think that's quite rare though, and often convert men can struggle to get married because of prejudice.

[HardlyEverHoovers]

In regards to the communication issue, as I most definately fell in love, as did DH, we were rather oblivious to obstacles, even ones as huge as not speaking the same langauge. We both felt that this was something that could be fixed with time. From my point of view I'd met so few men that I felt even remotely fitted what I wanted, I felt it might take more work but would be worth it. It was the easier than I thought in the beginning, but has taken longer than I thought it would to get to a stage where we can communicate in the way we need to. I'm still praying it's worth it in the end!
Language is a big issue for us, but I think culture is bigger. I would never tell anyone not to marry someone of a different culture, most people I know are in mutlicultural marriages, it's kind of the norm, but I would tell someone to think VERY carefully because you are basically entering the unknown.
And hindsight is a wonderful thing!
Long answer to a short question, sorry!

[FollowingTheTao]

First I have to say that I know very little about Islam as a religion (and have been very very pleasantly surprised by the discussion on here).
But I am in a bi cultural/lingual marriage. And this is the angle I would like to take.

Coming from someone who moved to the UK, there are a few things that are really essential imo.
1- the language. You say your DH is a teacher and that's how you met. How much english is he using in a day? Are you the only person he uses english with? I thin it is essential for him to get a good grasp at english and he should have been able to do that in 2 years+ as long as he is actually surrounded by english speakers. It is really important, not just to be able to understand each other but also to be able to watch TV, listen to the radio, talk to other (non muslims?) people, incl your own family. It has a major influence also on family relationship. My DH doesn't speak my language, understand now quite a bit of it. But not enough to follow full conversations. That means he doesn't want to go back to my home country with me as he can't be part of what is going on, feels isolated etc... Now we do that only once a year (and I actually end up going on my own) but you can imagine how it would feel if it was your everyday experience.
Also how are you doing in learning his language. Again, my experience is that it is quite essential with a bilingual child so that both parents can understand them/what is going on whatever the circumstances (eg: child speaking about school in english or you going back to his country on hols as a family)

2- The culture. You obviously have done a lot of effort to understand his culture (above the religion side of things). What about him? How much understanding does he have of the english culture? This is not an issue of accepting it or finding it but trying to see where you are coming from. eg: children need intellectual and social stimulation. It is crucial for their development to go to playgroups/parks etc... If he is more or less always surrounded by people from his own country, perhaps because the language barrier, perhaps because it feels weird and unsettling (and no one could blame him for that), he is missing on some opportunities to understand the english culture and yourself/your pov better. now being a foreigner, I found the english sometimes difficult to 'get' (I mean all the social rules etc...). I have upset a few people by not following these non written rules even though I am fully bilingual and have been there for more than 15 years. A good book I found about the unwritten rules is this book. Again this is really about finding ways to understand each others better but also for him to understand the society he is living in better so he feels more at ease and not isolated.

3- Respect for each other: I do believe very strongly in respect and taking each other into account when you are living together. After all marriage is supposed to be a partnership. I have been in the situation where DH didn't agree/didn't want me to do X or Y (issues with changing schools, teaching the dcs my own language etc...). I have to say, when I thought there was a need to do something, have done it, regardless of what DH was saying (Of course after having discussed the issue together in the first place!). I am known to have told DH 'well I will take the dcs to have some language lessons so they can also read and write in my language'.
This is not an issue about imposing your pov to the other (I would always try and aim for a win-win situation). But if my DH doesn't seem to have my best interests in mind and only his on a certain subject, then the best I can do is to have my own best interest at heart. Does it make sense?
Most of the time, you can find a solution where both parties have made an effort and found a compromise but if one isn't playing balls, then you need to take care of your own interests first (whilst keeping in mind your DH's).
Unfortunately, if you don't, then you end up being run all over, the power force shift from equilibrium to being one sided and it is to your detriment but also to the detriment of the family, the children and the relationship.

This is a long post but HTP.

[yummytummy]

this thread is so helpful, thankyou op for posting and i hope your situation can resolve with more discussion. i just wanted to ask though, dont know if anyone here would know, but wrt dh. now most years he has fasted but this year he hasnt, he finds it hard with work etc and i have tried and tries to convince him but to no avail to the point where he will shout at me for nagging him. now is there any sin on me as i didnt convince him?

also not only that but when i have been fasting he taunts me and says "look at the state of you, you are so weak i am glad i am not fasting" and things like that and that i cant look after the kids. yes its harder but i have done my best. also i have done every sehri and iftari alone. sehri as he isnt fasting so doesnt wake up and then iftari he doesnt see point of sitting with me while i break it.

and its so late so cant go to mum in laws to have iftari either as too late for kids. but rather than support me he has made it harder for me. but alhumdulilah i have kept them all apart from the few break ones. have i done right or should i have listened to him? so confused atm.

am sorry to hijack op but ladies on here mashallah so knowledgeable it really helps

tia