marriage advice from muslim women please!

[HardlyEverHoovers]

(and also non-Muslim women if you have any insights!)

Hello/asalam u alikumm and also Ramadan Mubarek. This is my first post, after browsing for some time, so please forgive me for any mistakes in etiquette.
I need some advice regarding my marriage, and from reading some old posts it seemed other muslim women may have dealt with similar issues. I'd be particularly grateful for advice from anyone who has managed to move beyond the point I'm at now.
I converted, by the Grace of God, to Islam about 8 years ago, I got married about 3 years ago, to a Muslim man from a different country, who has a position of authority within the Muslim community. We now have an 18 month old son and live in the UK.
My husband is great in terms of practical help in the house and with the baby and all that, and the bottom line is that he is a good man. However, he has restricted my freedom more than I could ever have imagined. There are a couple of things I do regularly (go to the local shops alone and meet wiht some Muslim women once a month a so) but to do anything beyond this takes a lot of negotiation and is met with much grumpiness and dissapproval. Even a simple thing as taking the baby to the park with a friend. I no longer am able to visit my family for a night without my husband, let along go and stay with friends. I don't attend any Islamic events or lectures (before marriage I was active in the Muslim community). I may occasionally be able to meet a friend or go to town alone, but I find the process of getting him to agree so stressful that I don't really bother asking.
Sometimes he will just say no, and not have a good reason, which is bad enough, but a lot of the time he gets his way by making everything around an event so stressful that I never do it again. Frequently I have been in floods of tears minutes before I'm due to go out, friends to arrive etc. I'm reluctant to resort to the word abuse, but this sort of behaviour makes me feel that way.
I am becoming very isolated, and I'm concerned that my relationship with my non-Muslim family, which has always been positive, is being affected.
On an emotional level I feel that I can't be myself. he doesn't respect my needs or my emotions. If I try to talk to him about how I feel, I get hit with the Islam hammer, and made to feel that my feelings are 'wrong' Islamically.
There was no warning of this before marriage, either in what I had seen of him (he was my teacher before we married) or in the discussions we had before marriage.
Because of the baby I've tried to keep a very peaceful atmosphere despite all this, but I am feeling I really need to take action as it is making me emotionally and physically unwell. I have had several miscarriages this year, and I believe that stress is not helping.
I've tried to be brief here, I can say more if needed. Has anyone dealt with similar issues in a positive way? I would hate the marriage to end and my family to break up, but I really can't imagine living like this forever.
Thank you.

[ummunono]

Salam alaykoum dear sis,
Don't have much useful advice but I think this is fairly common in multicultural marriages. I had similar issues with my husband (although to a much smaller extend) at the beginning of our marriage. I'm also a convert, from a very liberal, atheist family, and he is from a conservative background, born abroad. The women in his family tend to prefer staying home and visiting relatives in their houses and rarely go out, and your husband I suppose is just reproducing what he witnessed growing up, so I feel a bit unconfortable labelling him as abusive if you say he is a good man in other respects. I think you need to make him realize how badly this is affecting you and how unhappy you feel. Mediation would definitely be good, maybe you could find someone from his country but who has a better understanding of Western culture and the way you were brought up? Also maybe you could bring him ahadith about the importance of maintaining family bonds, even if your parents are non muslims, and tell him how beneficial it is for you to attend conferences or the masjid, to work on your iman? There's a hadith that tells us to not prevent the female worshippers from attending the mosque. And remind him that the best Muslim is the one who treats his wife the best! I hope you are able to resolve your issues inshallah, feel free to pm me.

[HardlyEverHoovers]

ummunono, thanks, your and your husbands respective backgrounds sound very similar to ours. And the females in his family do as you describe. You said you had similar but lesser issues at the beginning of your marriage. How did you resolve them?

[nailak]

Walaykum salaam sis.

Firstly as a muslim woman, there is nothing wrong with asking your husband's permission to go out.

However the situation you describe is not acceptable. It is obviously having an impact on the health of you and your child if you cannot even go to the park.

Also it is your right to see your family, and your duty to maintain family ties in Islam, if he is preventing you from doing so he is sinful.

You need to learn about Islam. Tell him the best of men are those who are best to their wives,, and that a woman is like a rib if you try to straighten her she will break, and that the fitrah Allah gave you is to be emotional, so obviously if you are not happy it will effect you.

There is a book called winning the heart of your wife which is good, also a book called like a garment.

There is also [www.solaceuk.org] which is an organisation to help reverts, they have an advice line with sheikh haithem hadad and support and advice services and would be used to these kinds of situations.

Also I suggest you post on a muslim forum as you will get views from brothers which could be helpful to understanding your husband.

Remember sabr means patient perseverance, not just in actively sitting and waiting, but trying to better your situation and actively taking steps to do so and being patient in seeing results.

Also this is ramadhan. Make dua, write down all the Duas you wish to make then in the hour before you break your fast read them.

Feel free to pm me if you want to talk any time.

[Windsock]

Sorry. There is something wrong with asking anyone permission to go out.

[nailak]

Why? If your Dh wants to go out does he just walk out? My husband always checks if I need him for anything first, if kids are playing up etc.

If he just went out as he pleased without consulting me it wouldn't be much of a partnership.

Op most muslim women don't ask there husband's for permission every time they go out. They have a mutual.general understanding of what is acceptable in their individual relationship for their circumstances. It comes under the ruling of general permission. I generally inform my husband of my plans only if it is something out of the norm, but park, toddler group, shopping, halaqa, friends, day trips for kids, relatives etc I don't unless he is there and awake when I am leaving.

[ummunono]

Well I suppose communication and compromise! For example I generally don't go out after Maghrib, don't visit non-mahrams, I let him know what I am up to (without "asking permission, but if he felt unconfortable with something I would probably not go). I have a daughter same age as your son and he understands I have to take her to playgroups and the park for her own good (and for my sanity!). It took time though for us to work it out as I was used to be out at all hours and working late at night before I got married. Now if we disagree we will go back to religious texts and discuss. Crescentmoon makes a point, maybe he is the one feeling isolated and he wants you to stay with him? For how long has he been living in the UK? Surely if he had a busy social life himself he wouldn't feel the need to control what you are doing?

[Lolcbcb]

I've read and re-read this thread before replying as j don't want to sound negative...
I was married to a Muslim man. I loved him dearly and stayed with him 8 years. He became increasingly controlling and did not allow me to be myself. I had to stop drinking and going out with my fiends in order to avoid rows.
Eventually I came to the conclusion that he didn't love me, but loved the idea of a different me. I believe religion was a big part as well as his culture, but it was also the fact that he thought his background was more important than mine hence I should be the one to change.
I became very resentful until one day I packed my bags and left. I never once looked back.
I believe marriages can and do work with mixed religion and culture but there needs to be a mutual respect and a lot of give and take otherwise it's always one person giving things up.
I would try to talk to him and make your point clear. How would he feel if you suddenly demanded that he eats pork and drinks wine daily? You would not dream of that as presumably these things matter to him- so it's needs to be the same for you!
Good luck x

[HardlyEverHoovers]

Not got much time to reply at the moment, and will reply properly later, but these last few posts from people who have been in the similar positions have really helped. Cresentmoon, you just described exactly what I did, same books same everything. And he is a homebody, he has some friends but he doesn't really socialise very much. It's different when we visit his home country as he loves hanging out with his brothers. Thanks Lolcbcb for thinking before posting and it didn't come across as negative. I think it helps that we at least have the same religion.

[Frontpaw]

He is controlling. Maybe the woken in his family act like this, through interpretation of religion or culture. Either way, he lives is this country and is married to you.

I know many muslim couples from different parts of the world. His is not normal behaviour, or acceptable. My DH may voice concern if I say I want to go out by myself into central london at night, but I would say the same to him! He would never forbid me from going anywhere.

I have found that in some parts of the world, the culture is that of treating the women as 'jewels' (ha - keeping them out of sight locked up more like) but this is cultural practise, not religion.

In pure Islam women have a lot more rights than people imagine. And husbands are judged on how they treat their wives. In fact, in most muslim households I know well, the women rule the home, most work, and the husbands treat them as equals - no question of 'god says this, so you must do that'. The only women I have met who have said 'my husband has said that I can't...(add your own rule here)' have been women (often converts) married to men from (generally) specific parts of the world.

He sounds like he doesn't respect you, and possibly he is one of those who has little respect for 'foreigners and non-muslims'?

[HardlyEverHoovers]

Nailak, the 'general permission' that you describe, is definately what I had imagined would happen within my marriage, although I did expect it might take a bit of negotiation to work that out, being from different cultures. In reality I have just ended up giving more and more activities up, to avoid a bad atmosphere.
Frontpaw, like you I know many Muslim women in many parts of the world, and they don't live like this. What you said in your last sentence is exactly how I feel on a bad day. On a good day I feel a bit more sympathetic and understanding towards him, we've been through a lot since we got married, and his life has changed enormously, it's alot to get used to for both of us.
Shaitan comes to people in different ways, and so knowing my husband would never look at another woman or anything like that, I think this is his way of coming between us.
All the comments have been so useful, thanks to everyone for taking the time to respond. It's helped my determination to sort this out and not back down, a process I intend to start after Ramadan (with much dua in the meantine, as you suggested Nailak), with the help of other people, as I don't think we can fix this alone.
Please pray that we manage to save this marriage. What I haven't mentioned is what a great dad he is, and I would hate to have to break up our family.

[nailak]

Remember the wives of the prophet sas argued with him, disagreed with him, etc and they were the best of wives. This idea of a wife being a sycophant is not from Islam.

[HardlyEverHoovers]

Thanks crescentmoon, you've touched on so much that is familiar to my situation. Alhamdulillah, because I was Muslim for 6 years and had lots of opportunity I was able to travel and study Islam and felt confident in my beliefs when I met him. This is one of the things he liked and respected about me, and in front of other people he still does, for example he'll say 'ask my wife about that, she's studied that' and other such things. However, within our marriage he has changed from the lovely open man I met, who was very straight in religious matters but also very open and approachable, to someone with a very 'closed' attitude, it's almost like he's gone into a funnel, the further he gets down this path the narrower his views become. It's very frustrating and of course all I get if I question it is 'how can you question me, I've studied Islam all my life' etc etc.
I'm interested in the tactics that you have used, and also what you said about things meaning different things in different cultures. One example from our relationship is that he is very helpful in domestic matters, until we have guests (muslim or non-muslim inlcuding my family) at which point he sits down and expects to be waited on! This leaves my family thinking he never helps (presumably, though they've never said anything), but from his point of view this is something to do with not wanting to embarrass me by making it look like a can't cook a meal by myself.
It's so good to know you have overcome some similar issues, although you did say they were less severe.

[HardlyEverHoovers]

Crescentmoon I would really like to know about your 'manipulative' behaviour, as it sounds like actually quite a wise way of resolving the issues without creating too much of a storm. I'm not very good at being 'clever' in that way so could do with some tips. If it's to personal to talk about on here perhaps you could PM me?

[HardlyEverHoovers]

Very good point Nailak.

[HardlyEverHoovers]

Crescentmoon, in terms of what you said about following different opinions, own teachers, I do all of that, and am open about it, the problem is getting him to accept that it has any validity - that's where mediation might help I think

[Ragdoll12]

Salam, some good advice. If it helps I'm in a similar boat but more I dont have any friends in this town as I moved here after marriage and husband doesn't help me to venture out. I think it's cos I'm more of a social creature than he is. I want to make friends and when I do I will have them over, go for a coffee when he has a day off especially so he can have our son. I think you have to stand your ground but also deal with him with wisdom which is something I forget. I can throw a right wobbler out of frustration. End of the day you have to answer to Allah and if you're not going against Islam then you should just do it. He needs to learn that he could lose you if he doesn't give you a social life. The wives of the prophet were not going out to work but were very active in their communities with other women. Thing is if he genuinely believes the people you want to hang out with are bad people he can stop you from seeing thembut he needs to justify himself first. Some men just have issues with women having their own life. They feel threatened. You shouldn't stand for that. I went to a mosque and met some lovely revert sisters, I'm not revert myself but my husband wasnt keen cos it's Wahhabi (don't ask) mosque, I just went cos i want to meet other practising sisters and i got on with them really well. in Islam he can't stop you from having a sisterhood. He cannot justify it with religion. I may be repeating what others have said but get a practising muslim person with good standing who is a NEUTRAL who will sit you both together and discuss. Thats the best way. My husband throws a fit at the idea of me getting someone else involved and I ask him 'are u scared that they will say I am right?'. If I lost patience with him I will get someone involved as a last resort with the hope of sorting it out but I hate to say divorce is allowed but be patient Some men just dont deservemuslim wives. Just look at how Muhammad saw treated his wives, a stark contrast to how men treat their wives today, of any religion, or no religion. Apologies for my bad typo, silly iPad auto thingy.

[Ragdoll12]

Sorry to hijack the thread but just wondering how long you all have been married for? I've been for three years but it's just been so hard. Does it get easier? I was always a spoilt brat at my mums but have had to grow up since but feel exhausted mentally. I see too much good in my husband to leave him plus we have our son so think I could live like this. I think loneliness kills me more than anything. I love being a sahm and wouldn't change it unless we needed the money but feel that by becoming a sahm I've somehow indirectly told my husband that means literally stay at home. I wanted to be a cool mum who takes he son out, mothers n toddlers, educates him and meets up with her friends. He's nearly two and none of that has happened. I don't want him to be antisocial like my hubby. I keep telling him kids needs to go out I go to my mums just so I can have abit of a life. All I spend doing all day is moping around, do abit of housework, read abit to my son but when u spend most days in doors you can feel really unhealthy and things you would enjoy become mundane.i go out with husband and we have a good time but I want to go out with girls too so I can talk about makeup etc hehe I talk to him about makeup but he doesn't really get it (mind u I'd be worried if he did!)

[ErikNorseman]

Cattyness your marriage sounds really oppressive. You know it's wrong but what are you going to do about it? You can't keep a toddler indoors with only you for company day in day out, it's not good for him, or you.

[Ragdoll12]

I know. That's why in on here trying to find people in my area who could tell me where to go. There's a mums group at the church but I'm worried they might not accept me for being Muslim. I Like people of all backgrounds but I have moved to a little northern mill town where people are not that tolerant apparently. Who knows they could be lovely. Im just not very confident as I'd want them to like me. I sound silly now.