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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

womens attitudes to crossdressing

881 replies

calikid · 29/07/2012 01:16

hi everyone,

i write this as a response to the numerous comments on a variety of posts regarding reaction to any stories where crossdressing is a subject. Firstly i'd like to make it clear that i am male and as such appreciate i may be laying myself bare to the onslaught of comment that is likely to come my way. although male i love to wear "womens clothes". What I would like to know is simply why shouldn't I. can anyone give me one valid reason why I shouldn't? because I have never been able to think of one.
I am happily married with two dds and a beautiful wife , all of whom i love very much. My wife knows all about my dressing and has been with me to a couple of tv gatherings. i told her not long after we got together and she was totally fine with it, we have been married now for 8 yrs. we do not let the children know as they are still quite young.
In all other respects I am very much one of the lads......I like football and beer (but then so do many women!), i work in construction, I teach martial arts, I help with housework , I don't mind ironing(coz i can do it while watching tv!)
I take a size 10 and look pretty good in a skirt and heels, but then so does my wife, its just she can do it whenever she pleases and good for her. its just the injustice and ignorance of society that infuriates me.
I'm curious to know how the rest of women feel about the issue

OP posts:
CajaDeLaMemoria · 15/04/2013 15:32

I wasn't saying they shouldn't. To be honest, I don't care what you are wearing any more than I should think you care what I am.

I was just enquiring as to why it's all or nothing.

I said nothing offensive to you, and was just asking a question. It did not require such a hostile and aggressive response.

EhricLovesTeamQhuay · 15/04/2013 16:05

I wasn't saying that you should not cross dress. I don't care at all what you wear. I just question your assertion that wearing women's clothing is not sexual for you. If you enjoy the fabric then you would achieve the same result by wearing men's clothes in silk/satin etc. if you enjoy wearing skirts then you can wear sarongs, kilts, shalwar kameez etc, it doesn't need to be a woman's skirt. Insisting that you wear women's items suggests that there is something inherent in them being clothes for women that does 'something' for you. So what is it?

AnnieLobeseder · 15/04/2013 16:12

Ehric's post eloquently demonstrates that when men prefer to wear women's clothing (which, let's face it, is much nicer than men's) there must be something deviant about it, something not quite right, something suspicious and kinky.

It's just clothes!

fluffyraggies · 15/04/2013 16:12

Spotted this thread was back yesterday.

You do seem awfully cross cali.

I've read the whole lot (was on thread near the start), and am still a bit Confused by exactly what you are saying, to be honest.

Just to point out i have no strong particularly strong feelings about men dressing in 'clothes typically associated with women' (bit of a mouthful) or indeed men dressing up as a woman. It's one of those things that has not affected my in my life personally so have rather ambivalent views on it.

I'm finding your description of enjoying the clothes as a sensual thing very confusing. You vehemently deny a sexual link. It's clouding the waters in what seems to otherwise to be a straightforward and sensible request from you that a man should be able to wear whatever shapes of fabric garment he desires.

We spoke about the high heels/skirt thing when i posted last year. Maybe i'm being really dense, and i'm sorry to re use the argument, but i'm still feeling you are dressing AS a woman deep down. This is not the same thing as exercising your human right to wear a skirt.

EhricLovesTeamQhuay · 15/04/2013 16:27

Annie, I don't think it is deviant or suspicious, but I struggle to understand what the OP meant by 'sensual' and I was challenging that really. He denies a sexual element but acknowledges that there is a physical 'thrill' if you like in wearing women's clothing.
I was also following the point made earlier that men dressing in dresses and heels isn't the same as women wearing trousers. Maybe one day it will be, that would be fine. But presently, society being as it is, there is an additional element to the motivation to cross dress that makes it about more than 'just clothes'.

Fairenuff · 15/04/2013 16:28

He is dressing as a woman, fluffy. He pads a bra. He does not want to be a man in a skirt because if that was what he wanted, he would just do it like many other men do! (AF what page was that video on, those men did look rather attactive in their skirts).

I don't see what your problem is really Calikid. You've been going round in circles trying to find 'women' who object to you wearing a skirt. All the women on this thread have said they don't care what you wear.

The only thing that is offensive is the sexism displayed by a man dressing as a 'barbie' because that's what women look like Hmm

If you want to wear a skirt, wear one. What's the problem, really?

TiggyD · 15/04/2013 16:38

I think it's not entirely accurate that transvestites dress like woman because as is pointed out in the thread so far, that would involve sweat pants, t-shirt, barely any make-up, trainers, etc. It's more like being more feminine.

AnyFucker · 15/04/2013 17:19

I may not use the same page numbers as you, faire

Hang on a mo and I will link again, just for the yumminess of it

AnyFucker · 15/04/2013 17:23

Here we go, enjoyyyy

This is what a man in a skirt should look like, nicely teamed with rigger boots Wink

calikid · 15/04/2013 17:29

fairenuff, even in this recent short episode of posts there has been negative comments regarding men in feminine clothing. yet you appear to suggest that there is no issue and i should just go out regardless. well read thru the earlier posts and see my reasoning , perhaps you may just understand this time round. and for you to suggest that you think i dress like a barbie coz thats what women look like underlines you lack of understanding and is in my opinion sexist in the extreme

OP posts:
Fairenuff · 15/04/2013 17:36

Thanks AF those men are fine. I quite like the leopardskin skirt, the material looks quite sensual.

AnyFucker · 15/04/2013 18:13

Mighty fine Grin

FarBetterNow · 15/04/2013 20:57

Google 'Birkenhead Tranny'.

She works in a charity shop on the Wirral, rides a pushbike with skirts billowing in the wind and is quite famous!

I think it would be good if all men were given a skirt to wear on the tube, then maybe they would sit with their legs neatly together rather than splayed out wide, impinging in other peoples' space.

LemonPeculiarJones · 15/04/2013 22:01

Thing is, cali, there's a sort of feverish quality to your posts. An opaque circularity to your thinking that seems - shut. A tad obsessive. But I am sure it's difficult to feel as strongly as you do in a world which largely opposes your preferences/desire for self-expression. Understandably, you are defensive.

I am fine with men cross-dressing. If that's what they want. Fine. I wouldn't want to engage with it myself (sexually with a man in drag) but have had a couple of brief relationships with men with tranny leanings. At no point did I want to see them dressed up but was happy to chat about it. They didn't push it. Respected my feelings.

You know - that's my right: to decide what I want to engage with, or not.

It's your right to wear whatever you want.

I think the idea that a man wants to dress up as a woman (the stereotype of being slathered in make-up, stuffed bra, etc) because it gives them a sexual thrill - and then be seen - well, I am uncomfortable with the exhibitionism of that. I don't want to be used as a viewer in a sexual ritual orchestrated by a stranger: I wouldn't want to be flashed at, either.

But I recognise that's not what you are into - although describing your 'sensual' pleasure muddies things a little.

It's as if this thread gives you a sort of release. Has something happened to trigger you returning to it? Are you ok?

There's a young guy who lives near me, quite boho and hippyish, who has long flowing curls and wears sarong-like or floaty skirts. He looks great. It doesn't look like he's dressed as a woman, he just looks like himself Smile

AnyFucker · 15/04/2013 22:26

< muses >

I wonder what happened to offred ...I liked her

LemonPeculiarJones · 15/04/2013 22:34

Yeah, I liked her style too AF Smile

Fairenuff · 15/04/2013 22:36

Me too. I was wondering if she namechanged but haven't spotted anyone else like her.

AnyFucker · 15/04/2013 22:55

She always took great pains to deny she was a feminist, then make some of the most feminist-friendly posts like ever

< pokes >

Bostincheesypaes · 16/04/2013 00:22

I find this a little uncomfortable. I have a son who wrote me a note to explain (around 3 years ago when he was 14) that he liked wearing womens clothes. I know that he only does this at home and is a blokey bloke outside. But please be careful because someone you don't realise might be reading this. My thoughts on the sensual issues have to take a more sensitive talk. Just think before you take the micky please.

FarBetterNow · 16/04/2013 06:46

Cali: Women cannot wear exactly what they would like to at all times.
I cannot turn up at the office wearing long flowing hippie style clothes, with flowers in my hair.
I agree that women do have a wider choice of clothes to wear.

But if I turned up at a wedding wearing a man's morning suit, men's shoes and a top hat, no makeup and short back and sides hair, ie dressed as a man, IMO that would be unacceptable.

All of us, men and women wear clothes to suit the occassion, to fit in with society.

I think you are extremely lucky that your DW accepts your CDing.
Maybe concentrate on the positive, rather than the unfairness of life.
I wish you and your DW well.

Fairenuff · 16/04/2013 08:15

Or do something to change it. Like raising awareness, campaign for the right to wear a dress to work, or open your own business making and selling sensuous, floaty outfits for men.

Every minority group has had to stick their neck on the line to affect change. Also, every oppressed group, such as women.

Anyone who has ever faced prejudice, (and apart from rich, white, straight, ablebodied males, that's probably everyone at some time in their life) has had to confront it if they want it to change.

There are support groups for everything, start one of your own.

Lucylloyd13 · 17/04/2013 13:28

There is nothing wrong with a man dressing in women?s clothes.

A woman in a partnership may however encounter difficulties.

Most women marry a man, not a girlfriend. We actually seek the yin and yang, that the two may compliment each other, and create a whole.

Men who cross dress with any frequency beyond bedroom masturbation tend to have an irresistible desire to explore. Dressing ( harmless in itself) becomes not enough, they want to go out, shop and socialise as a woman. That is where the problems can start. Most women are hetero sexual, so most women enjoy relationships with men. And the logical conclusion to chasing the female goal is a relationship with a man. For any woman, that is not acceptable.

Typically, cross dressers want it all. They want to explore their dressing side to see where it takes them, whilst keeping their wives as an insurance policy in case it really is just a bit of ?light relief?. It is a bit like a man excusing an affair by saying ?I?m not sure whether it will work out and would like you to hang around just in case.? It really needs to be the other way round. A cross dressing man needs to understand where it is going first, and then decide what side of the fence he wants to be.

This isn?t about prejudice. If a man wants to dress he should be allowed to do so. Equally a woman should be allowed to want an exclusively male husband. Women can dress to be attractive to, and attract, men. Seeing a husband in a slinky size ten dress, in killer heels and looking fabulous begs the question, fabulous for who? Not for his wife.

calikid · 17/04/2013 16:33

lucy,.......sorry but its been a while since i've heard such stereotypical, uniformed codswallop. To assume that all cds are on the slippery slope to having sexual relations with another man is absolute nonsense, and its this sort of ignorance that perpetuates the concept that men who are anything but macho in actions and appearance are unworthy as mates. you shouild be ashamed of yourself.

OP posts:
calikid · 17/04/2013 16:36

far better...............of course, and police men can't turn up at work wearing clowns outfis either!! but at least policewomen can wear whatever they want most of the time!!!

OP posts:
calikid · 17/04/2013 16:40

fairenuff, just by challenging some of the negativity and ignorance i've encountered on here perhaps a miniscule of education has been shed.

OP posts: