womens attitudes to crossdressing

[calikid]

hi everyone,

i write this as a response to the numerous comments on a variety of posts regarding reaction to any stories where crossdressing is a subject. Firstly i'd like to make it clear that i am male and as such appreciate i may be laying myself bare to the onslaught of comment that is likely to come my way. although male i love to wear "womens clothes". What I would like to know is simply why shouldn't I. can anyone give me one valid reason why I shouldn't? because I have never been able to think of one.
I am happily married with two dds and a beautiful wife , all of whom i love very much. My wife knows all about my dressing and has been with me to a couple of tv gatherings. i told her not long after we got together and she was totally fine with it, we have been married now for 8 yrs. we do not let the children know as they are still quite young.
In all other respects I am very much one of the lads......I like football and beer (but then so do many women!), i work in construction, I teach martial arts, I help with housework , I don't mind ironing(coz i can do it while watching tv!)
I take a size 10 and look pretty good in a skirt and heels, but then so does my wife, its just she can do it whenever she pleases and good for her. its just the injustice and ignorance of society that infuriates me.
I'm curious to know how the rest of women feel about the issue

offred, i'm sorry, but some of the negative comments on here suggest clearly that society does still need a fuck load of educating!!!!

for example, i've lost count of the number of times in the past where i've read about crossdressers wives who won't let their husbands dress around them or restrict it. If men did that to women for wearing jeans and trousers there'd be fuckin uproar on here, so well said tisnot, and you can take your double standard protectionist sartorial attitudes and shove them

I don't wear jeans to look like a man though, or for sexual kicks. I think that's the difference, no?
I'm sexually attracted to masculine men. Now constructions of masculinity are socially formed and the is nothing intrinsically masculine about trousers, clean faces, short hair. However that is how I have been conditioned to see masculinity and I can't break out of that, even if I wanted to (which I don't)
A man in a dress, heels, make up would look unmasculine to me, therefore I wouldn't want to fuck him. Simple really.

Jeans and trousers etc were considered offputtingly masculine on women when first worn, until quite recently. But the social construction of femininity has changed and as such hetero male tastes have changed (generalising of course) and maybe that will happen with male cross dressers. Men in tight jeans and eyeliner are sexy to some after all. It isn't fair to berate women for finding CD men sexually unarttractive as that is how we are conditioned on the whole. And it is not equivalent to women wearing trousers.

ehric, i don't wear skirts etc for sexual kicks or to look like a woman. I would prefer and have done so in the past, to dress whilst still presenting as male. The reactions have been across the full range you might expect! I do however, as i have stated many times in this post that i find the clothes sensual (not sexual), as do many women report doing so also!
I'm glad you accept that your attitudes to male attire and attractiveness have been conditioned, a point with which i concur. I am disappointed though that this is the situation when it is often widely claimed that women are more attracted to what is on the inside and not the outside!

another point i think is applicable and is a result of the comtinued failing of societies in general is the protection issue. women i think will look at men in in female attire as weaker than their male counterparts and less able to protect them in the jungle of society. This may fall under either a conscious or subconscious process of rational and regardless of whether or not they need protecting if society hasn't yet reached the point of the eradication of inane abuse and violence then this is always going to be a present undercurrent. Notwithstanding the fact that much of the violence and abuse against women is perpetrated by the very males in whom they have placed their trust in the first place!

is often widely claimed that women are more attracted to what is on the inside and not the outside

That's bollocks though, isn't it. Women need to find a man physically attractive as much as a man does a woman. The idea that women are less sexual more emotional than men and will settle for stability over sexuality are more attracted to what is underneath than surface is quite misogynist really.

I also don't understand when you say you find women's clothes sensual not sexual. What distinction are you making there? I don't find my clothes sensual. I don't like wearing lacy underwear or stockings, they aren't sensual to me, just annoying. If you like the fabric, why not buy silk boxers? Or wear loose trousers that feel like a skirt? I'm not saying you should not cross dress btw, I'm just wondering what it is about doing it that you enjoy in a non sexual way. I find it hard to believe that it isn't sexual to be honest.

I've not RTFT, but Eddie Izzard popped into my head, and eyeliner / nail varnish as worn by David Bowie etc. I personally find both men very attractive.

I would think that as many men as women would have problems with cross-dressing, and I agree that education would help.

DH has fabulous legs - he'd look great in heels.

Calikid: just wondering why you have resurrected this thread?

My XH was a CD.
It was not good- when he was dressed up he looked like his mum.
He had his Mum's legs!
His voice changed and his mannerisms became feminine.
He was totally obsessive about it and spent far too much money getting dresses made by a CD friendly seamstress.

We went to a few events and it was interesting: think 6ft+, beer bellied truck drivers in evening dresses, drinking pints and talking in big deep voices.
Mainly they all wore far too much makeup.

I would never, ever want a CD partner ever again, but I have no problem with blokes who are CDs.

i don't wear skirts etc for sexual kicks or to look like a woman. I would prefer and have done so in the past, to dress whilst still presenting as male

Not true. You wear a bra and stuff it. You want to parody women. This has all been gone over already in this thread, why don't you just re-read it.

I haven't read the whole thread but the title attracted me because I did go out with a cross-dresser for some time.

He told me about it the first night we met and I suppose it intrigued me and was one of the reasons why I agreed to see him again. I just wanted to find out more about it and him.

We went out for a few years and it was never really an issue. Sometimes he was really into it for a while and he would go out dressed up as his alter-ego. At other times he never mentioned it at all.

We used to go to some transvestite friendly places so that he would feel more comfortable and went to fancy dress parties, gay clubs and pubs but we would also go shopping and to the ballet together. We once went to a cross-dressing get together and that was rather interesting (I had the highest voice).

Sometimes he wouldn't dress up as a woman but would dress very glam rock and I quite enjoyed the attention we would get when out (and I'm a very shy person who doesn't normally like attention). He definately got a thrill out of it and I think the situation appealed to my love of the unusual. That helped me stay attracted to someone I was not that attracted to anyway. We were always great friends though and still speak to each other from time to time.

If men did that to women for wearing jeans and trousers there'd be fuckin uproar on here, so well said tisnot, and you can take your double standard protectionist sartorial attitudes and shove them

As you well know, calikid, over these last 20 odd pages, it has been concluded that the women who took part in the discussion did not object to men wearing skirts, or satin, ar any other kind of 'floaty' garments.

In fact, it was pointed out that this is perfectly acceptable and normal in some cultures today.

What was suggested as offensive, was the fact that the way you claim to want to dress 'as a woman' but you only want to represent what you perceive a woman should look like.

If you wanted to dress like a woman, well, take a look around you. Most women do wear jeans or trousers, or other casual clothing. And they are not trying to look like men, they are just being women.

You have said on this thread that your ideal would be to wear a dress, stuff your bra and pass for a woman.

You seem very angry tonight, has something happened?

My XH wears long 'robes' in hot weather, loose trousers a bit like harem pants with embroidery on. He still looks masculine and sexy IMO. He isn't trying to look female.

Exactly, Ehric, and the material can still be sensual and the man looks sexy because he's not trying to look like a barbie doll.

Women who wear jeans don't paint 'stubble' on their faces or stuff their y-fronts with padding so they can scratch their pretend balls do they?

We wear our normal underwear and go about our day in the clothes we find most comfortable.

That's not double standards. Men do the same.

I can never get past the 'Lily Savage Effect' personally. Years of laughing at pantomime dames and drag acts have conditioned me to find a man a frock risible and I freely admit it. Having said that, I think Grayson Perry has the right idea being up front, regularly appearing on TV and generally appearing normal. Maybe if more CD-ers took the same approach rather than hiding in corners or behind closed doors then society would acclimatise?

i've heard so many say if you l;ike the material why not just wear silk trousers or shirt.........simple, firstly why should i have to? secondly , to suggest they are the same is bollox.

fairenuff, bra stuffing.................as ive said b4 on many many occasions i much prwefer to present as a man when dressed

Fairenuff................you also state that i say i want to dress like a woman so I should wear jeans etc. thats not what i said, i like skirts and if only by mere association is it that they are referred to as womens clothes. If they were worn by chimpanzees then i'd still like wearing them, fuck all to do with the fact women wear them!!

cogito.........maybe if people didn't go around proudly claiming they find people risible because of what they might or might not wear then more cds would come out from behind the closed doors. if cds know that they are often held as laughing stock, objects of abuse and not masculine enough to warrant as a potential mate is it any wonder there is such secrecy. Don't you realise that your attitude is a major part of the problem.

I am perpetually perplexed by how women wearing men's clothing is absolutely normal and acceptable, they can walk down the street and no-one gives them a second glance. But men in women's clothing is horrifying to so many people.

At the root of it is the basic idea that women are inferior to men, so men are lowering themselves by wearing women's clothing. It's okay for women to be strong, even masculine, even if it's not to everyone's tastes. But for men to be effeminate! The shock! The awfulness! Men must stay masculine and strong, because to be anything else - to be like a woman - is wrong. This is reflected in everything in our society. Men are the default, women are second rate.

Someone asked why you can't just wear jeans and a shirt - clothes are just clothes. But do any women just wear jeans and shirts? No. You wear a variety of clothes that reflect your personality, tastes and moods. Sometimes that mood is reflected in a floral skirt. Why can't that also be the case for a man?

I would love to see a society where there isn't even such a thing as cross-dressing. Just people wearing whatever clothes they fancy.

This thread is the thread that keeps on giving !

I did love scrolling back a little bit to re-watch that music video "Hostage in A Frock". It's made an ole lady very happy (again) on this windy monday morning...

Sorry, women don't wear jeans and shirts? That's news to me. I'm wearing jeans and a shirt right now.

Why does a man who wants to wear a floral skirt also need to put make-up on, and wear stockings, and stuff their bra at the same time?

"Don't you realise that your attitude is a major part of the problem."

Not proudly claiming anything, just being honest. There are a lot of aspects of people's appearance that we use to pre-judge. A big man with a lot of tattoos everywhere, for example. I'm going to assume he's a bit of a tough-guy rightly or wrongly and FWIW it's not someone I'd see as a potential mate. A man wearing a skirt, no problem, Scots and Thais have been doing it for years. One dollied up to look like a woman... sorry..

Wearing stockings, fine. Even putting on makeup, fine. If men want to claim these items of clothing for themselves, more power to them. But adding a stuffed bra is the line where the man is trying to "become" a woman, and the issue changes from a clothing preference to gender dysfunction or, as is the case in panto, taking the piss out of women. Which is also fine, but it's an important distinction that needs to be made. Like the difference between a woman wearing jeans and a shirt and a woman actively trying to be a man.

annie, first post very well said, exactly my sentiments if perhaps I often fail to get my point across as succintly. second point you make about the bra stuffing, again I agree, would be deemed the same as a woman stuffing socks down the front of her pants. however, the one distinction being that the woman is free to roam society in whatever clothing they choose, whereas the man often feels they must feign the appearance of a woman in order to dress as they please without fear of retribution or ridicule. which in turn revolves back to your first highly eloquent point.

caja. you seem to suggest that a man should be free to wear a floral skirt, which is fine , however, you go on to suggest that they shouldn't wear make up or stockings? why the fuck not

fairenuff...............no nothing has happened, i have mulled on some of the content of this thread for quite sometime an was aware there was still plenty to say, even if i feel i continually have to repeat myself over and over. good to play ball again by the way!