womens attitudes to crossdressing

[calikid]

hi everyone,

i write this as a response to the numerous comments on a variety of posts regarding reaction to any stories where crossdressing is a subject. Firstly i'd like to make it clear that i am male and as such appreciate i may be laying myself bare to the onslaught of comment that is likely to come my way. although male i love to wear "womens clothes". What I would like to know is simply why shouldn't I. can anyone give me one valid reason why I shouldn't? because I have never been able to think of one.
I am happily married with two dds and a beautiful wife , all of whom i love very much. My wife knows all about my dressing and has been with me to a couple of tv gatherings. i told her not long after we got together and she was totally fine with it, we have been married now for 8 yrs. we do not let the children know as they are still quite young.
In all other respects I am very much one of the lads......I like football and beer (but then so do many women!), i work in construction, I teach martial arts, I help with housework , I don't mind ironing(coz i can do it while watching tv!)
I take a size 10 and look pretty good in a skirt and heels, but then so does my wife, its just she can do it whenever she pleases and good for her. its just the injustice and ignorance of society that infuriates me.
I'm curious to know how the rest of women feel about the issue

yes and are you telling me that there aren't plenty of girls out there who dress in a way that is less than flattering. there are alot more who look fantastic ! but there are still those that don't . so i'm not generalising, i never do!

the fashion thing is just something that crops up as an aside, not the main theme

Monty Python's Lumberjack Song was written for you in 1969 which is most probably some considerable time before you were a twinkle in your df's eye.

As the 'taboos' you speak of are largely in your mind, it seems to me you've posted on a false premise on the wrong board.

If you are genuinely interested in womens' attitudes to crossdressing males I suggest you post on AIBU with the title 'to ask if'... 'you would have a problem if your dh/dp engaged in transvestic fetishism in your home and in public?'.

If you post c7pm on any Friday evening I suspect that you will garner responses that are more representative of the broad church that is mumsnet than you have hitherto received.

Alternatively, the Style and beauty section of this site can advise on your sartorial proclivities and will provide helpful suggestions on maximising your assets.

Go to Style and Beauty for your needs. Why are you in relationships?

Xpost with Izzy and agree with her post.

Great minds, Lost

1969 i was already crawling!

thanks for input, i'm off to bed!

offred, looking forward to your answers tomorrow, goodnight

I'm tempted to ask 'crawling with what?' but I shall resist.

I have read the whole thread, Cali. I read most of it on Sunday at work whilst I was bored. I was referring to your apparent intent to post about gendered clothing so that some of us could 'learn something'. It must be a disappointment for you that Mn isn't chock full of folk who don't require educating.

I've got a number of Trans friends. It's pretty easy to feel sympathy for the plight of anyone that can be attacked in public for not conforming. Less so when they march in intent on educating.

And Cali, the fact that you are going on about women making the most of themselves in a purely aesthetic sense is pissing me right off. In whose eyes are these Friday
Night revellers
Not up to scratch?

Who gives a toss what they look like?

Because if you are saying you do, you've lost what teeny shred of agreement we shared. I don't care if you wear a skirt. I don't care what anyone wears, man, woman, or Friday
Night reveller. How very shallow of you to be judging others by what they choose to wear in public. And hypocritical.

No one is misinterpreting your posts Cali. You are incoherently making sexist statements. Repeatedly. And the more you try to tell us we all misunderstood poor little you, the more sexist you sound.

I agree with Izzy. You came here wanting a bunfight you could get your rock off over and educate all the bigots, everyone said 'eh, well we don't really care' so you stirred some controversy. But of course, it's actually everyone else who is being controversial by daring not to agree with you.

Following up from madwoman's excellent post about women 'making the most of themselves,' I'm curious. How much pressure do you put on your wife to 'get it right' and dress in 'sensual fabrics?'

Be careful, kid; more bitching from you may have some wondering whether you're a closet queen.

On the subject of Queen's 'I want to break free' video, this parody of Coronation Street was banned by MTV and other stations in the US for fear that it was a celebration of transvestism and bisexuality It was also used as an anthem against oppression in some countries.

FWIW it happens to be one of my favourite Queen videos; for the humour, for the Royal Ballet segment that gives a nod to Nijinksy, and also for the fact that it caused more than a few red-blooded males to question their sexuality on discovering that they fancied Roger Taylor

If you look as good as the divine Mr M in drag, I'd be tempted to jump your bones. Others can judge for themselves here: www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CD4QtwIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DeM8Ss28zjcE&ei=BLUYUPjBC6mg0QXQxoCQCg&usg=AFQjCNG20ZTv4NeWQFp9dgALnFBo-ZYpOw

Your questions are irrelevant and if you had read the thread properly you wouldn't need me to answer them anyway.

Again you have ignored my point. Isn't it interesting that you are misunderstanding me in the exact same way as like did...

Anyway here it is again. I am not telling you that you are sexist. I am telling you that this conforming to what you believe to be society's (and MN's) expectations about gender and cd is what I am saying is promoting sexism.

Saying that you are not sexist isn't an answer.

I'm also saying I don't think you did come here to discuss anything.

It is more accurate what you said about coming here to educate, that's why I was saying I was feeling it was insulting to other cds because you are putting yourself forward as some kind of authority and it is abundantly clear that you have some issues with it yourself.

You keep ignoring the issues and now you seem to be trying to launch some kind of personal attack at me....

Anyway, "the rest of women" as pronounced by MN have basically said "Mih, don't care what you wear" agree with fairenuff when she said you are deliberately trying to pick fights to confirm your persecution as a cd because when MN said "Mih" you started asking for male views as though you were disappointed with that answer.

I think Lost has completely the right end of the stick.

And a clue should be if you look back at the two posters that have agreed with you and just how sexist their posts have been. As for other sexism on the thread, well that is rather what happens when you promote sexism in your and as the op...

I think the issue of weather or not it's sexist is only one side of the many interesting facets to cali's CDing.

From the bits of your posts that are not responding to the great the sexism debate OP, it seems to me that deep down CDing, for you, is not simply exercising the right for a man to dress in 'women's' clothes. There's just little bits and pieces in some of your posts that make me wonder - is there a sexual element to this for you which is complicating the issue?

I keep getting tempted to type 'if all it's about is a man's right to wear what he likes, why not just go out in a skirt then?' But i can see why you don't. I'm smiling as i type that even, because it would look funny and ridiculous, to me at least, to see a bloke striding round our village in a floaty skirt. I wouldn't laugh openly at you in a million years, but i know there are many who would. Many that would go further still. So i understand that.

It's not easy, unless it's for comedy, for a man to go out in public dressed in women's clothing. Is this really the nub of the issue you wanted to explore here?

Incidentally why havn't you said anything to your work mates? As a builder wouldn't that be a perfect place to begin exploring or even perhaps challenging some of the male prejudices and opinions about men wearing 'women's' clothes?

Who does know about this part of your life apart from your wife and other CDs actually? Have managed to change the perceptions of anyone about this in RL apart from your wife?

fluffy that's for the balanced post which talks about the REAL world.
So OP would have to strutt in a skirt in the village to earn a 'he promotes non sexism' badge from the militants on this thread? THEN you couldn't accuse him of promoting sexism, right? well it is Not That Simple - that's why he asked Off whether she had kids, and no, a woman in cowboy boots is nothing like the same as a man in a skirt, it's also his dw who is not ready for the villages reaction so call her sexist too. Yes, he can be a brave pioneer and try to convert society/village so that they don't laugh - and i already mentioned same as fluffy, that they WILL laugh, of course they will (plus one or two people may be violent and send him hate mail or whatever), but promoting non sexism by going around in a skirt without makeup as a man, IS NOT a priority over the welfare/comfort/respect his whole family gets.
I find the militant post INCREDIBLY blinkered and cold heartted, putting principles over the human feelings of rejection/feeling unaccepted or even risking harm. I think the argument is also irrational as I don't see sexism in OP's everyday life, apart from if you watn to call cautioussness as to society's reaction 'sexism', and stompingh on every word with an iron boot, and God forbid who wants to thrown in some style discusiion - step on that too.
Do you lot realise how INTOLERANT you are, and izzy, even cruel (wtf?) you aer going on in this righteous way but you aer intolerant of OP's expression, behaviour, and indeed throwing labels at him - which I don't agree with, so that's not tolerated either and I'm just 'agreeing with everything he says' - not I'm not agreeing I understand where he's coming from, and you obv don't, apart from iron-fisted negative perspective.
OP you know you were right about MN - of course you ve got an onslaught, and every time a man says one word htat sounds sexist then all the rest he offered goes to hell as they aer just interested in beating their point down, not interested in seeing a poster as a whole person whose way of life in this case IS different but who is sensitive to public reaction on behald of the family and womders why can't people see this as acceptable rather than laugh - there is no empathy, just sticking the labels.

thanks, not 'that's'

*not realise how

by the way Off you accuse OP of not having a discussion, you are not discussing anything whatsoever, you started with a sulk and then swiftly moved on to call everything that was said 'offensive', and sexist - do you wonder why people aer not keen on talking to you, you do not respect any opinions/stance/personalities of others and immediately attach labels based on couple of sentences, like a completely inoffensive 'men work in construction, women generally don't' - neither Op nor I labelled you with anything from the word go even if now iuse agressive terms it's in response to your humourless deadly attitude that DOES NOT promote interesting discussion. OP actually is trying to be VERY measured and calm, and never labels anyone.

OP one of the many questions left unanswered is this - do you wear a bra and, if you do, do you stuff it?

TIA

You are misinterpreting everything I've said again like. I didn't say it was offensive I said I found it offensive. I didn't say the op would have to strut to the post office in a skirt. That has never ever been a point I have made at any time.

I have never at any time labelled anybody either. I have spoken entirely and exclusively about posts and behaviour. You're the one talking about how everyone is sexist and talking in terms of % and saying the op is only a small % sexist. That missed the point as a post too but I've never said the op was sexist, only the posts he makes promote sexism. Funny that you and he both misunderstand completely what I'm saying deliberately? isn't it?