womens attitudes to crossdressing

[calikid]

hi everyone,

i write this as a response to the numerous comments on a variety of posts regarding reaction to any stories where crossdressing is a subject. Firstly i'd like to make it clear that i am male and as such appreciate i may be laying myself bare to the onslaught of comment that is likely to come my way. although male i love to wear "womens clothes". What I would like to know is simply why shouldn't I. can anyone give me one valid reason why I shouldn't? because I have never been able to think of one.
I am happily married with two dds and a beautiful wife , all of whom i love very much. My wife knows all about my dressing and has been with me to a couple of tv gatherings. i told her not long after we got together and she was totally fine with it, we have been married now for 8 yrs. we do not let the children know as they are still quite young.
In all other respects I am very much one of the lads......I like football and beer (but then so do many women!), i work in construction, I teach martial arts, I help with housework , I don't mind ironing(coz i can do it while watching tv!)
I take a size 10 and look pretty good in a skirt and heels, but then so does my wife, its just she can do it whenever she pleases and good for her. its just the injustice and ignorance of society that infuriates me.
I'm curious to know how the rest of women feel about the issue

do a search for andrej pejic, a young male super model who fashions womens clothes and is one of the most sought after models in the world of fashion. extremelly beautiful. great to look at. I wouldn't go to be with him because of the fact he has male anatomy, but great to look at in wonder ander no doubt would be alluring to be in the presence of. like a great piece of art, great to admire but wouldn't want to settle down and start a family with!

So there aee cd role modles.

(soz about spelling im dyslexic and tired no a great combo)

Have you had a sexual relationship with a man?

no, never, i have on many occasions enjoyed the flirtatious approaches of men, when in both male and female clothing but only when it has been in controlled environment. only ever on one occasion was it uncomfortable (in a skirt at the time), in a bar i was pestered and on leaving got cab and was followed and had to tell cabbie to lose the cab behind! he did thankfully and all was well, don't know how it might have ended but i do teach martial arts aswell so if it came to it i would be prepared to fight my ground, heels or not! shudder the thought of the state my stockings would have ended up!

Fighting in heels and tights has never been a problem for me. Climbing fences in tights yes building dens yes but kicking a guy nope never snagged my tigjts ever :)

At what age did you start cd?

When was your first time lol

in all of this thread you're the first to have asked me that question, which i believe is one of the most pertinent! truth is i don't really know, but its' as far back as i can remember. I am the youngest of 4 brothers and my mum made no secret of the fact she wished i had been a girl to complete the family! so therein, in my opinion was the start of it. perhaps as a young child i tried to fulfill her expectations. i remember experimenting trying on her slips then progressing to her skirts. and although i developed henceforth through puberty into and normal heterosexual male, by that time i had already discovered the pleasure of female clothing and its sensuality. and to this day that has never left me, and why should it. In that respect i should thank her for opening a door to which i believe most males have never been given. I don't want to be the daughter that she never had, but i'm glad that i've learnt to love a wider range of expression i might not have had, had i not had the "suggestion" implanted at such a tender age. its' just a theory as i don't really know why i started, i'm just glad i did

I will think about your answer and comment later (or ask another question no doubt)

Goodnight

cali - thank you for answering my Q last night. I was so interested but couldnt stick around as i was sooo tired.

Although the moment has passed somewhat :) ... the shoes thing intrigued me precisely because of the fact that - yes, i love my killer heels with skirts (or jeans) and i when wear them i feel very feminine and sexy in them. Plus, tbh, i like it because i know that my DH (as do allot of guys) find them sexy as well. But - i don't wear them round the house, (unless i'm about to go out) or to Tesco, or out with the kids, as they're not practical or particularly comfortable. I'm talking 'high st.shop' heels here btw, River Island, Faith, or whatever, not fetish shoes.

Anyway - hence my thoughts about heels lurking in the grey area between wanting to wear women's clothes for non sexual reasons - and wearing women's clothes to feel like a woman while wearing them. Which to my mind is more than just expressing the choice to wear anything you like.

Sorry that was long and rambling.

You asked about male reactions to your post. Well i was reading some of the thread to my DH last night. His very first words were - "who on earth has told him he looks good in a skirt?" and then "I wonder when he started this, bet it was something to do with his mum". Beyond that there were just allot of mutterings about it being "Not right". Oh and "He's a builder!? " (DH is a brick layer)

He was interested - but in a more 'horrified fascination' way. Personally i have nothing in the world against people doing whatever makes them happy. As long as they're not deceiving anyone (and being responsible regarding their children, as you are) then live and let live is my motto. I applaud you for exploring this on MN.

I must add I couldn't live with my DH doing it though i'm afraid. I do like a man to be a man.

Do you have a very creative side? Do you like acting role playing?

Does your mum or dad know you are a cd?

I would find it a huge turnoff and it's not because of "society". I have never seen a cross dressing male who actually looks female if that is the goal, they always just look like a man in a dress. If it's about "sensual" materials then why does it have to be a dress or skirt? Why not get a shirt or something made in the material you like? I really don't see how any woman could have sex with her husband while not being able to get the image of him in a dress out of her head, I certainly couldn't. If my 6"1 well built husband suddenly started dressing in a skirt it would be a deal breaker for me.

I'm a bit disappointed i haven't had any male feedback

Maybe that's because you said I'm curious to know how the rest of women feel about the issue

have any of you discussed it with your partners to guage their perspective. i would assume it would range from support. to indifference to animosity and pity

Without a doubt, the overwhelming majority on this thread have expressed indifference. Perhaps it's not such a big a deal as you think it is.

It's a shame that you haven't answered my questions yet. I haven't learned anything new from your responses so far, other than even when cross dressing it still seems to be the woman's role to do most of the cleaning.

Have a nice life.

Just had a look at Andrej Pejic - unbelievable! it's exactly the kind of look I was talking about that could attract me, I equally like slightly andgogynous female models (i.e. the only type of woman i could get attracted to on superficial level). He IS so beautiful chiselled features, figure.
Sinabed if you haven't seen a man who looks great in women's getup , then have a look! though admittedly he looks very young which helps. I'd like to see him without the long blond hair and makeup though - as I'm sure he can do both.
Of course it's always to do with parents, most of our quirks, fluffy.

sorry, meant '5inabed'
Fairenuff - why should the housework be part of it, Op said repeatedly that he doesn't take on a persona, I would think that in itself is something new to learn! it was for me.
Also the singer from Suede used to look good in andrigynous way though not like the model, but he was attractive - my exH even commented that he was good looking and he was very antigay. I think there is also a type of a sensitive/emotional man, especially slim and not very tall who could be attractive as a cd, even without the model looks. The problem is a lot of cds aer hevay/masculine and that's what you see most, and many women find it off putting as it's just jarring (the physique vs the clothes).

Fairenuff - why should the housework be part of it, Op said repeatedly that he doesn't take on a persona

haha, no, it was another poster who said her dp did more housework when dressed as a woman.

OP rather proudly said that, as a man, he 'helps' his wife do housework. This was supposed to illustrate how he enjoys both 'male' and 'female' activities.

Male - I am very much one of the lads......I like football and beer (but then so do many women!), i work in construction, I teach martial arts

Female - I help with housework , I don't mind ironing

This from a person who champions freedom of expression and equality.

Ironic isn't it

Faire, they probably have a cleaner as wife is a carrer woman, so what's the problem - it's between every husband and wife how they prefer to divide the work - i.e. he works on house extension which his dw wouldn't CHOOSE to do probably, and she does more housework (probably not a lot if cleaner is there) she happens to be tidy by nature (not just because she is a woman). Why jump to conclusions when there is logic in these things regardless of feminist issues?

I'm finding this thread very interesting and thought-provoking.
One thing my mind keeps coming back to, is that there have always been androgynous men who have had a lot of sex appeal, with at least some women. The classic one on MN is Adam Ant, who played around with both very stylised masculine, and quite feminine, imagery, to dramatic effect and huge female approval. Trent Reznor is another one who has messed around with masculine/feminine and dominant/submissive imagery, often with him in a submissive position. In the 90s, Brett Anderson of Suede was a sex symbol to some with his exposed stomach, hoopy earrings and shiny asymmetric bob, and Brian Molko from Placebo looked great in a black shift dress and DMs. Before that, you had the glam rockers with their platforms and satin, and then the hair metal crew of the 80s, with their blowdried poodle perms and see-through tops. Then there's Eddie Izzard, and a few other comedians around now who are fond of eyeliner, slinky shirts and tight pants.
There seems to be a bit of a line. None of the men above has ever tried to pass as female, although some may have employed the odd feminine mannerism or two. There's a certain amount of girlyness that some men can get away with, and in some cases, it makes them even more attractive. However, there is a limit. All of them have played with the edgier side of "female" fashion, rather than the more traditional side which many CDs seem to like.
I'm not sure how else I can express that.

carreer

Fairenuff - that's what plenty was sort of getting at pages ago and it hasn't really been addressed properly at any stage....

As for being disappointed about no male viewpoints? Where do we even start with that?!

I have come to the conclusion after reading this whole thread that no it isn't validation, it is self-indulgence.

I'm very uncomfortable with a lot of things being discussed on here, not the cd but the way it is being spoken about in a goading, hostile and divisive way, actually shutting down people passive aggressively when they are asking valid questions, sycophantically raving at people who are counted as "in the club" and I find a lot of the concepts about "maleness" and "femininity" offensive as well as a lot of the things about cd. I know you do not speak for all cd anymore than I speak for all women and I am very uncomfortable with this deliberate polarisation and then manipulative and flamboyant language which says you are not being divisive.

I still wonder why exactly it is that you have posted? What's the purpose because there seems to be a lot of smugness and setting up to fail. I feel alienated as a person not a woman by you as a person and not a cd and I think it is a shame that by setting yourself up at least nominally in a position of speaking for the world of cd against prejudice, you are coming across so, well to be frank, narcissistically because actually that's one of the misconceptions that exists about cd and has been mentioned up thread.

well David Walliams covered nearlu the whole range of cd looks (bar rock or punk!) from Jackie the pilot and a convincing old woman/air stewardess to cds in frilly Victorian dresses in 'we are ladies' with moustaches. I thinnk this kinbd of thing inspires cds to try not-too traditional looks as they aer probably not confident enough that they can pull off a less girly dress. Of course the irony is, the least girly the more the can pass for a modern woman, if they want to pass for one.

Offred people express their opinions in a language they are used to or find appropriate, you are far too judgemental and oversensitive, if you have opinions why not just express then without looking for reactions or feeling alienated? if you mean that my posts are goading because i understand/support OP (even though I do not think he is perfect or always expresses himself perfectly, he's prob non-English in origin for one) then that's rubbish, I just feel like not being too heavy and serious and am curious about psychology but also happen to enjoy the artistic side of this- you choose to be deadly serious and take yourself in the same way, fine but don't be so judgemental about poster's and Op's expressing themselves as they feel like!

*posters and op

Likeatonne- does it really matter which female he helps out with the housework?

The problem is the assumptions being made about "what is female" - housework, ironing, high heels, make up, long hair, skirts and "what is male" - martial arts, beer, football, a muscular physique.

I am aware the op has said that he doesn't agree with these stereotypes but here he is promoting them with his behaviour, with his words.

I don't think the words and actions match up: doesn't agree with stereotypes but promotes them, not ashamed but hides himself even from family, not looking for validation but wants people to agree with him.

Seriously, I've been picked on all my life, sometimes violently for the clothes I choose to wear. When I walk down the street I still get shouted at by random strangers almost everytime i go out. Sometimes it is quite intimidating but it doesnt limit my life or my choices about my appearance, i dont feel i need to hide it so my children dont get picked on and it has never occurred to me to post something equivalent to this post.

I had to shut myself up some time back on this thread, as I was getting angry and it wouldn't have been helpful

What I have found irritating is the way we are supposed to accept the "blurring" of genders by male cross dressers, but then to not react to the blatant sexism displayed on here

proposing "doing more housework", being more "sensitive", willing to talk about feelings, being more touchy-feely etc just because a bloke has a frock on is shameless support of sexist stereotyping and looks very, very hypocritical to me

if as seems clear, we are being asked to accept that gender is "fluid" then fgs, quit the sexism

and what is offensive about op's concept of femaleness if the wife is a carreer woman and passes down her clothes to him? surely he would feel slightly 'degraded' if he was not looking at the genders as equal?!! most men would feel degraded about that, and some very openly, so OP is streets ahead. It still remains that women do not like working in construction (vast majority) and men are often clumsy with cleaning, it's irrelevant and reflects phyical attributes (delicate fingers that women have, muscle and thicker skin that men have), nothing to do with opression, so tiresome this nitpicking.