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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Text message

101 replies

BananaMuffin · 22/07/2012 06:14

Can the following text message (on H's
Phone) ever have an innocent explanation?:
"you choose... You either get me all day and night, or you go on your girls' holiday...."

He is saying she is only a work colleague (I actually
know her and her reputation, which is terrible) and that it's a reference to "joking" about asking her to change her flight for a night out with him and other people too. She did change the flight and replied to him "you better show me
A good time" to which he replied "no way!!!!! ARE YOU SURE?!?!? Either way, you rock xxx"

OP posts:

LostMyIdentityAlongTheWay · 23/07/2012 10:25

I agree, I think its probably alright. But at some point, can you address a) how he deals with your worries... Not belittling you, but listening supportively, and b) maybe how you deal with him? In his defence I'm trying to understand that if my dh went batshit with me when innocent, I'd maybe react like that?

So hard... I hope this works out... I think he has a terrible predicament here... Can he get a different a/c manager maybe? If this is all kosher, then SHE IS THE PROBLEM. Toxic female and NO idea of boundaries.

shorttermnamechange · 23/07/2012 11:08

He might not have been having an affair, but he is certainly not innocent of any wrong doing, so imo had no right to accuse you of paranoia or go batshit when you came to a very natural conclusion in light of what you had read. That conversation crossed boundaries - most people would have assumed an affair on the basis of what she was saying to her. The lack of boundaries is a proper cause for concern, in addition to him minimising your concerns when you first came across this message.

sternface · 23/07/2012 11:15

It's interesting that he says that this sounded inappropriate. I'd have said it was inappropriate.

The question that doesn't seem to have been answered in all this is why he was doing this.

You may have foiled this attempt OP but I don't think the problem is solved at all. I also think that keeping him on surveillance after he's just been busted is pointless. A year down the line after this has been brushed under the carpet might be better.....

MadAboutHotChoc · 23/07/2012 12:04

What is his explanation for the flirty texts? For being nasty and defensive? For having lousy boundaries?

You have answered only one of these questions. Ignore the other two questions at your peril because I wouldn't be surprised if this situation comes up again. You both need to understand why he is so vulnerable to this kind of attention and what made him think it was ok to cross so many boundaries and then treat you badly when you rightly brought up your concerns.

Original poster

BananaMuffin · 25/07/2012 17:37

I want to reply to the remaining questions from the last poster even thought it's been a few days!
What was his explanation for the texts? Well first of all, I'm one of these people who doesn't actually like "explanations" for wrong behaviour, because all I hear are excuses. If it's wrong it's plain wrong. But I did ask him that question (a number of times) and he basically said he has known her for about 6 years, he knew that I knew her too, he is aware that she speaks to all men the same way (this is true enough) and that his mistake was "mirroring" her tone. He also said he simply couldn't see past the fact that doing anything with her was so ludicrous that he probably wasn't applying the same judgement as to other girls - due to her being very blokey (again I know this is true) and, without meaning to sound bitchy here, not very attractive. I know the latter point doesn't stop men by the way!! Anyway, that was his "explanation."

OP posts:

Offred · 25/07/2012 17:46

Ahhh the "she's like one of the lads" "she's not my type"... It sounds as if he has thought this through a lot. I was of the opinion he had got carried away working in a scumbaggy environment he couldn't handle well but I think this changes my mind.

Original poster

BananaMuffin · 25/07/2012 17:48

Haha apart from the fact that, joking aside, she IS quite ugly!!!

OP posts:

Offred · 25/07/2012 17:50

Well yes BUT it isn't the reality of this stuff but the fantasy. It was probably just texts but the fantasy was the attraction which is something quite different to getting carried away in a sexualised working environment.

Offred · 25/07/2012 17:50

do you see what I mean?

Offred · 25/07/2012 17:52

I mean actually I think as long as that kind of thing goes no further I don't mind it but I think it is still reasonable for it to be a serious problem in a relationship for some people, it depends on how they feel.

Original poster

BananaMuffin · 25/07/2012 17:58

I don't know really. I know this girl personally and I know how blokey she really, honestly is. She is quite literally beer swilling, alcoholic and rough looking!! The men she is alleged to have had affairs with are old (we are talking 15-20 years her senior) and not our age. It scares me that you think it was a 'fantasy' because I can't make that add up from all of the various messages/ emails that I've now seen (eg there is a genuine history of him leaving early from things to come home which both she and the male colleagues have joked about - hence his emphasis on staying out properly this time). That was his explanation for why the "all night" was mentioned - which was easily proven by all the messages along the lines of "you're lame, you left early again" etc. Still annoying and still lots of promises for him make, I know that (and he has) - but I hate thinking it was an actual fantasy.

OP posts:

Original poster

BananaMuffin · 25/07/2012 18:13

I want to add one more thought, as it's interesting to look back at this thread now that I'm calmer. Initially I found his protestations of innocence and "you're crazy for thinking that" to be insulting - eg not taking my feelings seriously and protesting too much. But when I look back on my own past relationships, I too went absolutely crazy when an ex accused me of cheating when I was innocent. I said things like "you're crazy for thinking I would do something with him of all people"... And, the one time I was genuinely guilty (and the relationship ended over it) I was just floored by the question and I denied it calmly!!! So some of these "rules of how a cheater behaves" don't always hold. Makes it harder to tell though!!

OP posts:

Offred · 25/07/2012 18:20

Yeah, I do think it is probable he hasn't done anything in reality even that he never intended to at all for all the reasons he mentioned. BUT he HAS thought about it, if he hadn't then he wouldn't have told you those particular reasons and given that he has thought it through seemingly while he was in process of doing it is what makes me think it was a fantasy - not that he wanted to shag her just that he enjoyed the flirty text thing they had going on.

Offred · 25/07/2012 18:24

Given it sounds as if, and I may not be right he may only have thought it through afterwards, he thought it through at the time then the hiding it and the "you are crazy" are what is wrong here.

Original poster

BananaMuffin · 25/07/2012 18:31

I just sound like a classic downtrodden backtracker here BUT... It was an embellishment on my part to say he had hidden the night out. He never lied - I just didn't ask about his plans. I would have asked at some point and I guess I can't know for sure that he would have told me , BUT he has never once lied about his whereabouts before... So the night out with her wasn't actually a secret.
However, while I'm here I might as well mention another annoying part in this. On the night that he texted her to cancel (and she got annoyed about the money and the general "let down", she later texted saying "don't worry no one knows." obviously I immediately went mad! He was perplexed (not angry or defensive etc) and said "she must mean no one knows I've bailed on her?!"
The next day I made him ask her what she had meant. I've seen the whole exchange - he asks, she replies "yes
I can see why that seemed like a strange thing to say... I just meant that - if you were freaking out about our cheeky chat and that's why you cancelled - well, I didn't take it the wrong way. Just wanted you to know"

I obviously take this as clear evidence that she DID take it the wrong way. But it's similarly evidence that nothing has ever happened.

OP posts:

schmarn · 25/07/2012 18:51

My take is this. Fact number one. She wants to shag your husband. There is no other reason why she would volunteer to change her holiday flight just for some drinks with your husband. The fact he is a client is irrelevant here because he wasn't the one suggesting drinks, she was. No client would expect a business contact to do that. It's an insult to your intelligence to suggest otherwise

Fact number two. Your husband has been flirting with her knowing that she wants to shag him. He is flattered by the attention and if you hadn't rumbled them, then the two of them would have met for drinks in the full knowledge that you were out of town.

Fact number three. It is no coincidence that this little rendez-vous was arranged while you were away. It was arranged for that time (by her at least) BECAUSE you were away.

The only thing that is unclear is whether or not he would have reciprocated when (not if) she made a move on him. But let's be clear about one thing. He was putting himself in a position where sex would be on a plate, no strings, with you out of town. That is not ok.

The question I have is why did he lie to you and say that he was staying in that night when he was planning to go out. If it was really just a few beers with some munter from work, then why not tell you that? No, I can't think of a good reason either.

VodkaJelly · 25/07/2012 21:31

Banana, I think he enjoyed the flirting and the fun and didnt given any real thought to what would happen if he got found out.

I think you found out in time and nipped this in the bud. You will never know how far things would have gone if you hadnt but i hope he would have run a mile instead.

Good luck for the future I really hope he has learnt his lesson.

Offred · 25/07/2012 21:42

Yes, I think it was that for both of them. Whether it would have been more you'll never know but I think it is clear that he had thought about it like that, as had she and that he behaved in a way that was protective over his little "cheeky chat" and hurtful to you. So how do you feel? The actual thing is something of a molehill really I think but he hasn't handled it well.

Offred · 25/07/2012 21:44

Agree with most of what Schmarn says too.

sternface · 25/07/2012 22:24

Agree entirely with Schmarn.

I still don't understand why he isn't looking after his own child while you're away.

I also detest the way the two of you have conjoined in a story about this woman's lack of attractiveness and 'blokiness'. Comfort yourself with this story about how he would never have been interested in her if you must, but it's not the truth and deep down you must know that.

Offred · 25/07/2012 22:27

I don't think he was interested in her for her looks but I think he was for the "blokiness" which is code for sexual predation I think.

Original poster

BananaMuffin · 25/07/2012 22:56

He wasn't looking after our child because he can't take any more
days off work until the end of the year (he has left early
from his mates' weddings instead of being able to stay over because it's that tight). Also, my parents wanted to see their grandchild (they don't live close). I was totally happy with it.
I'm beginning to feel a bit offended that you think he would definitely have slept with her! That wasn't ever really my fear/ reason for my anger - it was just that he'd let her form that impression. I think he enjoyed the flirting which is wrong and terrible and has made me so livid, but no - I don't think he would have slept with her. There have been too many other chances over the past 6 years if he had wanted to do that.

OP posts:

Offred · 25/07/2012 23:02

I agree with you that he might never have slept with her, in theory. However, she was doing it with that clearly in mind and what is more I think he new that and at the very least enjoyed flirting with the danger of it. You can't tell what would actually have happened had he been out with her and some booze and with you away and even if he hadn't wanted to it may have crossed the line in some way because he has at the very least led her on and set it up.

Offred · 25/07/2012 23:04

He'd set the freight train in motion so to speak and it would have been hard to apply the breaks in time if he had actually gone on that night out.

Offred · 25/07/2012 23:04

*brakes!

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