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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Text message

101 replies

BananaMuffin · 22/07/2012 06:14

Can the following text message (on H's
Phone) ever have an innocent explanation?:
"you choose... You either get me all day and night, or you go on your girls' holiday...."

He is saying she is only a work colleague (I actually
know her and her reputation, which is terrible) and that it's a reference to "joking" about asking her to change her flight for a night out with him and other people too. She did change the flight and replied to him "you better show me
A good time" to which he replied "no way!!!!! ARE YOU SURE?!?!? Either way, you rock xxx"

OP posts:
pictish · 22/07/2012 11:17

Totally concur with stern face there. Good post.

Offred · 22/07/2012 11:18

When he says you are paranoid say back to him that he is deluded and that is the best case scenario. Do not wait around to decide what to do based on the responses of a manipulative controlling man who clearly does not care about your feelings - he will twist you in knots. Decide what you want based on what you know, that he has crossed the line more than once (after last time he will know how you would feel), that he is comfortable with lying to you and that he doesn't care when you are upset.

Offred · 22/07/2012 11:19

(worse than that he insults and laughs at you)

Iamsparklyknickers · 22/07/2012 13:25

Completely agree with offreds post.

Regardless of whether or not he's been completely inappropriate (at the very least) the reaction to your partner thinking you are is not to belittle and deflect. That alone is good enough reason for you to be angry, it'd be personally one of my deal breakers but that's me.

So in my mind you now have two separate grievances with him although they both lead to him been a knob. Oh and having female friends does not mean off you go and flirt your arse off, you're married behave like it.

BananaMuffin · 22/07/2012 16:01

Have just asked him if he is willing to hand over his blackberry and he has said only if we go through it together. Am I right to think this is further evidence of guilt?!?!?

OP posts:
Doha · 22/07/2012 16:11

yes

LostMyIdentityAlongTheWay · 22/07/2012 16:11

I would ask him why he is in Any position to call the shots.

Or say 'ok, .let's you aNd me.... And your boss go through it together.

I don't see this ending well. He isn't taking this seriously, is he?

FairhairedandFrustrated · 22/07/2012 16:22

Why together? Perhaps do he can explain context?

shorttermnamechange · 22/07/2012 16:24

Hi Banana,

Am going through something similar at the moment - the difference is that my dh is apologetic and has fully disclosed everything and swears this will never happen again. If your dh had done similar, then i'd say there was a good chance of putting things right. As it stands, he isn't sorry, he is accusing you of being paranoid and is belittling your distress.

I'm very sorry, but I don't think you can come back from this. In answer to your question, yes, wanting to go through the phone with you is a sign of further guilt. If he had half a brain, he would have deleted them by now.

I would go through his skype/fb messages (they might be archived if he didn't delete them). Gather your evidence.

So sorry Banana. This is an awful thing to be going through

shorttermnamechange · 22/07/2012 16:26

Call me spiteful, but anything I found, I would forward to her boss and other clients if I knew who they were. While I agree that your real problem is your husband, I would still take any opportunity to make her squirm.

Youcanringmybell · 22/07/2012 17:03

Oh I know how awful this is. It happened to me and know what they say...how they make you feel like you are paranoid, in the wrong, so pathetic for worrying and that you must be hysterical for suggesting that anything could have gone on....
I was told it was just banter in the work place, she talks to everyone like that etc

It is all crap. Even if you decide to forgive him or give him another chance DO NOT EVER BELIEVE HIM. He is lying Sad

sternface · 22/07/2012 17:06

Yes the request to go through the phone together is a further indicator of guilt.

But that phone will have been forensically cleansed of anything incriminating, unless he is stupid. What's more telling is that he thinks that you are stupid and will be fobbed off and reassured by a suddenly clean phone.

Stop bothering with the phone. That's not the main issue any more.

The issues are that he is embarking on/is having an affair and instead of admitting the truth, apologising sincerely for what he has done, he laughed at you, denied it and counter-attacked.

LostMyIdentityAlongTheWay · 22/07/2012 17:45

Actually you know, I'm with stern.

The phone is a distractor. Arguments will be about what u did / didn't find.

His refusal to acknowledge your feelings is the issue. Avoid the phone, OP, it'll be a dead end.

You know, I'd tell him to stay elsewhere after work on Monday. I don't think I'd want him back. Let him realize you're no pushover. Turn up the heat and STOP letting him call the shots.

Christ. What a piece of shit he is. I'm very sorry OP, I think his behavior is terrible. Don't accept crumbs off his table. Tell him to find alternative arrangements until YOU are satisfied with the lie of the land....

Huge hug.

worrywortisworrying · 22/07/2012 18:17

Banana - How are you now?

Abitwobblynow · 22/07/2012 22:56

What can we teach our daughters, that they aren't attracted to these knobs?

Banana, just in case you don't like what Stern said, it took me 20 years to finally wake up to his selfish behaviour. I am not loved or respected and have not been for 20 years after initial idealisation. So I do know how bad you feel.

BananaMuffin · 23/07/2012 08:20

Just a quick update to explain something about the blackberry. it didn't contain text messages - it was used for bloomberg chat (something that can't be deleted due to banking regs!) - i knew this, so he also knew i would have access to an entire history of 'chat' with her. In the end, he agreed to hand it over and let me lock myself in the loo with it. Unlike a list of doctored text messages, it was full disclosure. it contained many messages that I didn't like (basically flirty stuff, showing off about hangovers etc and her asking him to set her up on dates with his mates), but it also gave me a context for the other discussion about the cancelled flight. She told him about the flight about a week ago - said it was booked on the evening of a day that they had a meeting together (other people there too), and asked 'are you going to bail at 7pm or are you up for a proper night out? if the latter, then i'll move my flight'
He had replied incredulously saying 'you can't do that - this is your girls holiday? as much as i'd love to have a proper all day session with you!'
She then needed to leave the office, and so the conversation had moved to text, hence the text messages I found where he promised he'd be out for a full night instead of going home.

Further context is that his job involves lots of nights out, and he HAS mentioned her name as someone he goes out with/ has meetings with (I know her), as well as many other names.

His tone changed entirely after I read the messages and he could see I'd become a bit calmer with him. He was sorry - very sorry. Said he could see how inappropriate it sounded.

Basically, it gave me the context that she's a big drinker, pretty much obsessed with making people drink with her (horrible) and that he rises to this by making himself sound like someone who is 'fun' too.

it's wrong and i'm not making excuses for him, and he knows what it looked like. But i actually believe that I got the wrong end of the stick. Admittedly the wrong end of a generally bad stick though. He knows he needs to stop talking to her/any woman in that manner, and his promises have been sincere rather than flippant. To be fair, he was telling me I was paranoid when I was in the middle of spectacularly losing it with him.

Sounds like backtracking maybe, but there's one other thing that reassured me. I made him text her while I sat next to him last night to say he couldn't go any more because he needed to see a mate, and she replied pretty annoyed. I pressed it further - told him to ask why she was so annoyed (if an affair, then surely she'd say something revealing?) and she replied 'because I changed my flight you moron? isn't it obvious??' I'd been with him the entire time- no way he could have warned her. And also, she was REALLY annoyed in her responses - about the cost of changing the flight, not about not seeing him.

Interested to hear thoughts though!

OP posts:
Proudnscary · 23/07/2012 08:23

Oh dear

I see

Well...good luck OP

We are here if and when you come back

x

MadAboutHotChoc · 23/07/2012 08:30

What is his explanation for the flirty texts? For being nasty and defensive? For having lousy boundaries?

Why on earth would someone go to the effort and expense of changing flights if she wasn't on a promise?

Did you check emails/FB/internet history?

I would watch him carefully as I can't help feeling there is more to this.

Offred · 23/07/2012 08:35

Well, I agree with your assessment banana of this particular situation.

However, what fricking job involves nights out drinking and flirting?! How absolutely soulless... I'd be worried about your DH working in that environment, a job shouldn't completely undermine your relationship surely? Either it is require or it isn't so if he can stop it stands to reason that he never had to do it, just because everyone else might be doing it doesn't mean he needs to and if he doesn't have the presence of mind to prioritise his relationship then maybe he is in the wrong job. I would not be able to forget him laughing at me when I was upset, especially if he now has tail between legs at being caught out. I'm not one who usually agrees with the "no flirting and no crushes ever" brigade but he seems to be saying he is required to prostitute himself in his job and he has treated you exceptionally callously when you have found out, that is quite bad.

pictish · 23/07/2012 08:38

Well OP - I sure as hell hope that's all there is to it, and that he feels pretty stupid right now.
I think his greatest crime is in downplaying your distress....so I am glad to hear his apologies are sincere...because THAT is what was missing for sure.

Good luck OP - may he learn a lesson from this....and may she get herself to the far side of fuck insisting on boozy all night sessions with other people's husbands.

BananaMuffin · 23/07/2012 08:43

Well.... nasty and defensive was in response to me initially throwing the phone at him and calling him every name under the sun. I don't do calm!!
He agrees and acknowledges that he overstepped a massive mark with the flirting, that the tone and content of the messages was wrong, that he was massively stupid etc etc. i have a tracker on his phone to see all the texts he gets today (have already seen the messages between them that he promised to send, and her responses - they're all consistent with an innocent thing based on nothing but drinking). it's deceitful to have the tracker (thanks to the person who told me about it on here, by the way!) but I will remove it once I'm satisfied.

As for why she changed the flight? Yes, not satisfied entirely, but one thing is undeniable - he's an extremely important client. I used to do the same job and saw how she approached it - i.e. frequently getting so drunk with clients that she would fall asleep over the table.

\ ,
Finally, I need to mention how much of a ludicrous secret this would have been to keep. All of his friends are clients of hers too, she also goes out with them, and we all see each other. Doesn't excuse the STUPID flirty tone/ content of his messages, I know this and so does he.

Facebook, email etc - we never hide anything from each other. i know all his passwords and vice versa. Similarly, his phone is always lying around, hence how I came across the messages when our toddler picked it up.

OP posts:
pictish · 23/07/2012 08:47

Well I say he's innocent.

However, he needs to realise that his conduct has been inappropriate and caused upset, and he needs to never behave that way again.

Offred · 23/07/2012 08:47

I couldn't survive in a relationship (again) where I felt like I needed a tracker and facebook passwords... It is utterly wearing living like that and I'd rather be totally on my own.

shorttermnamechange · 23/07/2012 09:26

Banana, I would still keep an eye on things for now, even though it doesn't sound like things have progressed as far as sex. And I would still check his fb etc. Just because you know his passwords, it doesn't mean that you have seen everything there is to see - I had full access to my husband's fb, but he still engaged in inappropriate chat on there. It just didn't occur to him that I would see it.

I think the nights out, drinking, have to stop. Just because this is the culture of his job, it doesn't mean he has to do it. If he is such an important client, then they will want his business whether he gets pissed with this girl or not. In your shoes, I would make him deal with someone else. He might find this embarrassing to request, but tough shit.

I think you need to address with him properly, what is and what isn't an appropriate way to communicate with women, when you are in a relationship.

I also think he should get another job - one where he doesn't get to behave like a single man!

PooPooInMyToes · 23/07/2012 09:44

When you met him through work in the same way, flirty texts etc, was he single?

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