Separation - just need to talk about it

[namechangedthistime]

I'm new here but I'm planning on sticking around, so I've name-changed for my first post. I'm of the male persuasion.

I'm pretty sure I'm intent on heading down the road to separating from my wife of about 15 years. We've got two kids, 6 and 9.

We married in our early 20s and both admit that we were just kids at the time. We've discussed separation many, many times over the years. We're capable of getting along pretty well although on a quite superficial level - by 'getting on' I probably mean 'sitting quite companionably without bickering for a limited time'. We have no real shared interests other than the kids,although we share the same general Guardian-reader values. I feel I probably bore her senseless although I do have a wide range of interests and a yearning passion to experience.

We've never really brought out the best in each other and we wasted the years BC when we had freedom and some disposable income -I'd always wanted to travel, for example, but it didn't interest her. She's a lot less adventurous than me, an upbringing thing I think. We were stagnant even before we settled.

The driving force behind my desire to separate though is sex. There's been no sex or intimate touch or kissing in about 7 years and for years before then it was down to an awkward, unsatisfying once or twice a year.I feel huge, overwhelming resentment, sadness,rejection and disappointment over this and it tends to overshadow a lot of my relationship with her. The sex was never great after the first few months. I don't think I'm bad-looking, good personal hygiene etc and I find my wife very attractive and make an effort to tell her frequently, in a non-manipulative way. She says that she can't imagine sleeping with me and that it 'would be like a close relative'. She says she does have desire but I'm not convinced. I've still got the libido of a 20 year old (and the forearms of a blacksmith).

This year it all seems to be coming to a head. I've been having serious insomnia for the first time ever

Do you want us to say "It is OK to separate"?

Bum - fat-fingered the 'post' button.

At first this was because of sexual frustration, now it's a mixture of that and general frustration, uncertainty, etc. I'm drinking way too much and I'm aware that I'm self-medicating. Drink doesn't generally change my behaviour towards my wife, btw. I'm almost certainly depressed some of the time.

To add to this, my dad died quite unexpectedly at the start of the summer. Obviously this hasn't helped my mental state but the other effect has been to make it financially possible to consider separation for the first time since the kids.

My wife finds life very stressful and isn't great at holding down jobs etc. As of September she won't be working in order to spend more time on the house, kids etc. I can carry the load on my salary - just about, with adjustments - but couldn't do two households. I want to go to counselling but my wife is very reluctant. She seems to think that everything will get better in September when she isn't as stressed. I have no faith in this - we're not going to suddenly develop a wealth of mutual interests and an emotionally satisfying sex life. She seems able to continue indefinitely, but I just want out.

So, that's my story. I'd be grateful for any thoughts, I'm after all the insights I can get. And obviously I haven't touched on the impact on the kids etc yet.

Don't you think you need to be sitting down with your wife talking about the way forward?

HOw old are the children?

What has your wife said in the discussions about separating ?

CoteDAzur - not really. Maybe. I just want opinions or insights that I haven't yet considered, I think.

I just want out.

I think that's your answer.

Plus do you think you need to see your GP about depression/your drinking?

My wife is flat refusing to discuss it at the moment. Won't even sit down and attempt it.

The kids are 6 and 9. We've been 'staying together for them' but I'm conscious that we're imprinting on them a very unhealthy model of a relationship. They're pretty high maintenance and I think it'd actually do me and my wife a lot of good to have the time off that separation would give.

Even if you don't have any hobbies in common, everyone likes to go to a movie, eat a fine meal with some good wine. Take her out once a week. Hold hands while walking, laugh together.

You have lost all intimacy and you need to get it back. There can be no sex without intimacy. Imagine you have just met someone, and you are courting her.

Why such brief responses everyone...?
If it were a woman posting this on here I'm sure the replies would be far more useful!

We are trying to understand the situation before we post replies.

I think with DC you have to try and explore every way of making a marriage work (which is very different to saying stay together because of the DC)

If you will not/can not do this then yes I think you should separate. (you meaning either of the couple)

Children are resilient. If they are 6 & 9, at school and you can't afford to run 2 households on your salary, you wife needs to get a job (and I say this as a SAHM of school age children - if I couldn't afford it I would have a job)

You need to tell your wife that, since she will not discuss or work to solve your problems, then the marriage s over. The current situation isn't helping anyone - not even the children.

You can, I believe, go to counselling by yourself. this may help you see things in a clearer light.

*Pommymumof38 your reply was far less helpful than any of the brief ones.

Soupdragon - I can't see what a GP would do really apart from tell me to stop drinking. I'm depressed because parts of my life induce depression, not because of a chemical imbalance.
CoteDAzur - I love movies and go (alone) every couple of weeks, she can be persuaded to go to a romcom every 6 months or so. Laughing together would just look deranged when we haven't really got anything to talk about as well. I get your point about intimacy, but I think it's just too far gone.

You want out, do it.

I am a year into separating and it saved me. Literally. I met stbxh when I was 19, he was 29. There were other factors in our relationship that brought around the break up, but the fact we were so different played a part in it. He had no ambition, no hobbies. Just spent his days working then in the evenings drinking and smoking pot. The second half of our marriage was the loneliest of my life so far.

You don't need anyone's permission to leave. You certainly don't have to sacrifice your happiness to stay in a dull, sexless marriage. Bite the bullet and do it.

Oh and we had 4dc together. They have come on in leaps and bounds since our separation. yes they struggled initially but a year on, they know they still have both of us and that we love them. I will never forget my eldest saying to me one day, mummy you are smiling! Like it was so rare.

I think if I was married in your situation I'd feel resentful.

So much for you creating intimacy? What should she be doing? Your marriage is broken. I don't think the responsibility to mend, lies all on your shoulders and I think you feel this too.

6 and 9 yr olds cope better than teens who have lived in a tension filled house

From what you've written it sounds like this relationship has been dead for some time. Your DW may not be bothered about the lack of intimacy (it's more important for some people than for others), but you have clearly reached the limit of your tolerance for this brother/sister type relationship. Saying that she says she sees you as 'a close relative', presumably meaning that for her sex between you feels incestuous, is a clear indication that intimacy has left yo

Take her out to the pub. See friends together. Everyone likes to see friends, right?

If you want to leave, fine, leave. But if you want to try to make this relationship work, you need to have some fun together. The laughing will come by itself, and you won't "look deranged", don't worry.

Well it sounds to me like your marriage is way past saving to be honest

I dont know what to say other than brace yourself for the worst time of your life and more pain than you can imagine getting through the initial break up.

Once that part is over you can both start a path of recovery and rebuilding your lives and what kept me going through the worst times was the knowledge that yes this is horrendous but it needs to be doen because our marriage was dead.

Regarding the children provided you and your DW do the usual things of reassuring them you love them and that the spilt has nothing to do with them and never bad mouthing each other they will come through.

I am two and a half years on and feel like a different person , all the life is too short cliches are too true

Sorrry - stupid computer posted before I was finished writing ...

... your marriage and will be hard (perhaps impossible), to get back. From what you're written I think a trial separation period sounds like a good idea. You mention not being able to run two households on your salary however, so that's a big thing you need to sort out now. Can your DW and DC move to a smaller or cheaper place? Where will you go? You need to make her listen to you on this if you're serious (and you sound like you are). Refusing to listen is her sticking her head in the sand as it sounds like she may have a sense of what's coming.

I've been thinking of going to counselling on my own. She says she'll try counselling in September but I'm dubious - a couple of times things have come to a head and she's agreed to read a relevant book together or similar, then as soon as the immediate pressure is off it all goes away.

My insomnia and visible unhappiness is screwing her her up, too - she feels hugely guilty about it (although I tell her over and over that it's not her fault), and says that seeing me like this is just driving her further away.

I'd much rather live with the mother of my children, but not at the expense of living without a loving, intimate partner too.

I think your focus on sex could bring people rushing in to tell you how unsympathetic you are and list a load of reasons (some very valid) why women go off sex temporarily.

What you are describing sounds to me more of your wife's retreat from a relationship. You are encapsulating it as a sex issue but your last post about going to the cinema alone was poignant.

I too was lonely in a marriage with a man who didn't share any interests and basically stayed because it was convenient. Financially I supported him and in many other ways as well. He never felt any compulsion to change to meet my needs which is his perogative, as it is your wife's perogative to live as she chooses.

It was my perogative to leave the marriage. He pleaded, begged, threatened suicide, generally hysterical over the end of the marriage and promised change... I was the love of his life and he couldn't go on... He had a new partner and was living with her in months... so life does go on.

He has also told me he agrees it was the right decision to separate despite his strong resistence to it. He was just too lazy to act himself.

I'm meanwhile single but happier than ever....no longer living a lie

I have to say that 7 years is a long time to try and recover the intimacy and sex.

When I was in my early 20s my live-in partner and I didn't have sex for 4 years. We went on holiday and tried to rekindle the flame and it just made me cry. Although at the time I wasn't sure why, I think it was the realisation that the relationship was over

I think when you have gone years and years with no intimacy at all, it's very hard to get back. And even then, both of you need to really want it, and work on it. It sounds like your dw can't face it

I really feel sorry for you op but I think unless she wants to work hard for the marriage, and accept that you need help, it's going to be very hard to save