Shattered by fall out with friend.

[Redwhine]

I am reeling from a phone call last night from my friend. We have not seen much of each other since my youngest child was born. She has been TTC for several years and I knew she found my pregnancy hard. She has not been to see the baby, which upset me but I tried to understand how hard it must be.

The phone call was out of the blue and she told me how insensitive I had been whilst pregnant, how much I complained about feeling sick and being ill (I was actually hospitalised several times with various complications) and how I never asked about her. She then said after the baby was born I was always talking about the children and moaning about being tired. At the time she said she wanted me to talk normally to her and not to self censure but obviously I was wrong to accept this. I honestly tried not to complain and moan to her at all, but looking back at some emails I did say how sick I was or how I hadn't slept much the night before.

I was horrified by how angry and unhappy she was. I apologised immediately and said how terrible I felt but she pointed out I was being self involved again and making it all about me. I was left not knowing what to say. What can I do? Is our friendship salvageable?

Oh my God. Sorry, she is pointing out how self centred you are when you apologised??! She seems to be making your life, your baby all about her, but in the most negative way possible. It must be so bloody hard on her, TTC for so many years, but that does not mean that she shouldn't rejoice in your happiness.

With pregnancy can bring sickness and illness; with babies can bring knackeredness of extreme proportions. She asked you not to self-censure and you didn't (much). Now she is venting all of her pain on to you. That's really not a very nice thing to do.

So- basically you have to lie and not tell the truth of your life for her to be a friend?

It is very difficult when one person is TTC and the other already has children, especially if the TTC has been going on a long time/infertility issues.

It sounds like you were sensitive enough to ask/her to say that she wanted you to chat normally about it, but that turns out not to be true.

I am sympathetic though to the person TTC, it can be very very hard when your friends are all having babies and you are not. One of my friends chose not to visit me with a newborn due to this, but she was able to tell me and talk about it, and she certainly didn't restrict my conversation.

I am not sure where you go from here, try to see what she said less as an attack on you (even though it feels like i) and more about her deep personal pain (which is very real, and perhaps a bit distorted).

You have apologised, what more can you do? I'd be tempted to think that at the moment you can't be close friends, hearing about pregnancy/babies/tiredness of children is too much for her, and you don't want to not be yourself/able to talk about the things that are most important in your life either.

It's up to you, but I'd move back from the friendship, and let her know that you can't offer anything else than being yourself, and if that doesn't work for her, there's nothing you can do. Of course the other alternative is to plough on trying not to mention the things that upset her, and to listen to her a lot, but I get the feeling that your closeness will be damaged anyway.

Plus- if she goes on much more, she's milking it. She felt you were selfish, she said so, you said sorry, you need to go from here. If she wants grovel after grovel, let it (and her ) go.

Rindercella
Thank you for your reply. I think I am probably not making it clear enough how unhappy she is and what an awful time she's had. We have other friends with children and she has not been this way with them, which makes me feel like I MUST have been at fault.

She's using you as an avenue to express her pain. By believing that you've behaved badly she's "allowed" to unload on you all of the built up frustrations that come from wanting a baby so badly and watching the years go by as everyone else (or at least it may seem like it) has children. I don't think you've done anything wrong other than get pregnant and have a child. Don't immediately accept that you've behaved badly- it sounds like she's in a very hard place and you've been hit with all of the resentment and anger. If you've apologised I wouldn't keep doing it, you've acknowledged her point of view and shown you're sorry. Tbh though, I would start to feel a bit wary if she keeps on accusing you of being self-centred and letting you know that you're being wrong. That's not fair on you.

"We have other friends with children and she has not been this way with them, which makes me feel like I MUST have been at fault."

I think it's more likely she's hit a breaking point with it all, rather than it being you who did something wrong.

Mumsyblouse,
Thank you for replying at such length. I feel so guilty because I can't know what she's going through, I have been very lucky and got pregnant really easily. I think you are right though that there is nothing else I can say. Eventually I told her I would step back and let her contact me when she felt she wanted to, if she did.
We were very close BC and I am so upset, I also feel quite shaken about her attack on my character, I am doubting myself hugely...

You know how children usually act out with the person closest to them? Well, adults do the same - we vent at our spouses or mother or whiever we feel v close to - and I think your friend is doing this here with you. Sounds like she has made you the focus of her anguish and is taking it out on you, but I don't think it is your fault. She has focussed on you as the 'fuault' for reasons of her own, none rational (I know this from my own trials at TTC).

"We have other friends with children and she has not been this way with them, which makes me feel like I MUST have been at fault."

Do you know how we always say that children lash out at their parents because they are so secure in their love that they feel safe to do so? Well, perhaps your friend (consciously or unconsciously) feels safe enough in your friendship that she took all her pain out on you because 'you can take it' rather than on other friends who might not react in the same way. Who might even drop the friendship over it.

It's still not nice for you to have to hear all that, but maybe that's the reason she went for you rather than anyone else, the poor woman.

Oogaballoo,
Thank you... Perhaps you are right that my pregnancy was the final straw. I have just asked a mutual friend who I trust if I was insensitive. She not, that it is just bad timing in our friendship. I hope this is true.

Oxfordbags, are you in my office reading over my shoulder?

She's hurt and jealous. She has probably had a rough time TTC but people will have babies so she needs to realise that she will kill every relationship with anyone with a child if she doesn't stop being hurt by it.

What a horrible situation.

I cannot imagine what she is going through-but it´s not your fault.

And cruel as this sounds-you having a baby has no bearing at all on her ability to conceive.

Oxfordbags and Poledra... So I'm going to hope this means great minds thinks alike....we were very close and to be honest often moaned to each other about everything and everyone at times! I suppose it is hurtful to be on the other end of this.

Front paws... Maybe. I just wish I'd picked up on her feelings sooner. Now I feel it may be too late to resolve things.

Its not your fault - I dint think you could have done anything different. If you jad said nothing, they you'd be accused of cutting her out!

I had a bit if a blub when sil got pregnant again (I'd love more but no chance now) but gave myself a good hard boot up the bum! Obv in the privacy of my own home and didn't say anything (what's there to say? I can't jhave one, so you shouldn't??). Nowhere close to what your friend has been through TTC (I can't imagine the pain there) but emotion nonetheless.

Excuse bad typing - ruNing late for work!

It sounds like the case of wrong audience tbh. She should have just kept away from you, realised it was her problem and come back to the friendship when feeling stronger.

If you want to salvage it I would send some flowers with a note, then just back right off and leave it.

Thank you Frontpaw. I'm so sorry, that must be hard.

Saintlyjimjams... To be honest I think she has been trying to back off, looking back its been me calling her, inviting her out etc. I've made it hard to disengage! I did think about flowers but I am a bit wary because, to be honest, while it seems like a nice thing to do, everything else I do has been hugely wrong and I feel like even that gesture could be misinterpreted.

"But to those experiencing infertility whining about pregnancy or childbirth or parenting really really smacks of ungratefulness regarding your children."

But that is their perception-not the reality.

Ah I see. Well I've been in a similar position to your friend when ds1 was younger (was clear he had issues, began to be clear they were severe issues and it was hard to be around some friends with same aged kids who wanted to shout about every stage of development iyswim). I recognised that while the way I felt wasn't particularly nice it was a common way to feel and that there was no point torturing myself being around people who made me feel miserable. So I backed off and came back when I felt more able to cope. A few friendships ended - but mainly because those friends couldn't accept ds1 iyswim.

If a friend had sent me flowers I would have been very touched even of I'd still avoided them after thanking them. But then I would never have blown up at someone like your friend has either, so who knows.

Maybe a quick card apologising for getting it so wrong and making her so upset, that it wasn't your intention but you can see you misread her responses, wishing her well and saying you hope you can be friends again in the future?

It's a horrible situation and I think the way she feels is understandable BUT she really shouldn't have blown up at you like that as your joy with your baby isn't related to her difficulty conceiving.

Quietly... It has been several years and has been a very hard road in many ways. I wasn't consciously trying to make my life sound crap...

I don't really think I did complain a lot, but to be honest at times I did. For example, I nearly lost the baby. At this time I did cry in front of her quite a lot, it was several weeks before they could confirm everything was okay. I'll be honest, at that time I lent on her and didn't really consider how hard that would have been on her. so perhaps holeysmoley has a point.

She's supposed to be your friend, too. You were going through a difficult time and thought you might lose your baby. What would she have preferred, that you ignored her completely or that you told her how you felt?

I think she's been selfish. I understand that she desperately wants to have a baby, but she has been vile to you now, making you question everything about a very difficult time in your life. She's lashing out and clearly feels safe blaming you, but she's not being fair and she's not being a good friend.

This is a very hard thing to get right. I don't think you should have to censor out all the bad things or feel you aren't allowed to complain. Having said that, holeysmoley's post made me think - looking at your OP, you don't say anything about talking to her about her feelings or about you supporting here. Now, that doesn't mean you didn't, of course, but I just wondered... did you spend much time discussing her frustration with her, or did it get avoided, perhaps because you were worried about saying the wrong thing?

Having said that, I also think that as Oogaballoo and frontpaw said, this has been triggered now because of something else for her, not just because of you. So don't feel it's all your fault.

Could you maybe write her a letter saying how sorry you are and that when she is ready to talk you would really like to try to get together again? Then leave the ball in her court for a bit.