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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Advice for intimate loving sex please...

81 replies

Spuddybean · 18/07/2012 17:22

DP and i have quite a kinky sex life. Role play, BDSM, fantasies etc. But we never have really intimate, loving sex. We hardly kiss and he doesn't touch me much. I really want to bring this dimension to sex but as it's not really natural to us, I am unsure where to begin.

i want to have sex as ourselves for a change, with lots of romance, kissing, touching etc. So i would appreciate some advice with how to do this without making us feel silly or DP thinking i am being critical of his normal style.

I thought about maybe a shower together first and some massage oil, perhaps some nice music. But am worried it will feel stupid, like i am trying to recreate some r&b type nonsense!

I am 34 wks pregnant and want us to feel really close - if that makes sense. I said i had saucy plans for us for Sunday, and he has immediately gone down the role play route and started fantasising. I said no, i wanted something intimate with us as us and he seemed disappointed. So now i feel a bit unsure.

OP posts:
fuzzpig · 19/07/2012 06:32

Spud, you aren't being shallow at all. Why would you think that about yourself when you only want what is natural? You are the opposite of shallow, don't be so hard on yourself :( admittedly I don't know much about fetishes/BDSM but it concerns me a bit that in one of your subsequent posts you are pretty much absolving him of any responsibility. Even if it is as hard wired as you say, he should want to change and reach a compromise if it makes you happy. But he doesn't. That part is 100% HIS fault.

I was going to suggest massaging his ego by making a big deal about touch etc turning you on but TBH that leaves a bitter taste for me. You should be able to discuss your needs without him getting defensive. He has no problem discussing his own needs by the sound of it Hmm

Malificence · 19/07/2012 07:55

As you've found out, good sex isn't just about orgasms, you can have an orgasm on your own, any time you want - they are a tiny part of the whole experience, it's the emotional and physical connection and the feeling of being truly desired that is the important part, for me anyway.
What you describe sounds very cold, a very detached way of having sex, it certainly doesn't sound particularly enjoyable if that's all you do.
I do think you're going to have to sort this issue out, you'll end up very resentful of him and his needs if you don't - he sounds quite selfish, how can you expect to have a good long term sex life if he doesn't get aroused by you and not something you are wearing / whatever "role" you are performing for him?
At the moment it sounds very one sided, with him not actually that bothered about changing himself ( which we are all able to do if we really want to) or about he fact that he's happy to continue when he knows you're not happy with the current situation .
How he reacts when the baby comes along and takes all your time and attention will be very telling.

FallingOverToys · 19/07/2012 09:07

Name changed!

He needs to want to 'break' his fetish. And he needs to want to do that for you because he loves you and it is what you need.

DH and I were a bit like this, though not so extreme, just over time it became that the majority of sex we had was experimental. I started getting really uncomfortable and then of course neither of us enjoyed it. We went through a fairly miserable patch for several months as he felt rejected and I couldn't really articulate why I was uncomfortable (Took me a while to work out)but he eventually took the decision to change his thoughts - he physically made an effort to think of other things. Now sex is much better as I don't feel it is impersonal any more , we both stil make a bit if an effort to stay in the moment, but THAT is becoming more of the norm, if you see what I mean.

It's not saying he can't ever have sex that way again but it might need to stop completely for a while as you create a new kind of sex life that you both truly enjoy.

FallingOverToys · 19/07/2012 09:09

Name changed!

He needs to want to 'break' his fetish. And he needs to want to do that for you because he loves you and it is what you need.

DH and I were a bit like this, though not so extreme, just over time it became that the majority of sex we had was experimental. I started getting really uncomfortable and then of course neither of us enjoyed it. We went through a fairly miserable patch for several months as he felt rejected and I couldn't really articulate why I was uncomfortable (Took me a while to work out)but he eventually took the decision to change his thoughts - he physically made an effort to think of other things. Now sex is much better as I don't feel it is impersonal any more , we both stil make a bit if an effort to stay in the moment, but THAT is becoming more of the norm, if you see what I mean.

It's not saying he can't ever have sex that way again but it might need to stop completely for a while as you create a new kind of sex life that you both truly enjoy.

Spuddybean · 19/07/2012 09:24

Thanks for the replies. When we got together he made it clear that his fetish was part of him and they came as a package. I accepted that as long as we still had the 'loving' 'vanilla' sex too (i do also very much enjoy the kinky stuff - so i am not being a martyr, and there is a level of love and intimacy in that fetish side which i have never felt in 'ordinary' sex). However, the vanilla sex has got less and more mundane, till now we are not even having sex - Just using toys. I do think he is not used to touching a woman and his touch is not great tbh. No matter how many times i tell him he just reverts back to what he thinks he knows.

The problem is he has had loads of one night stands but no relationships - so he has never had to develop with a person. Any kind of change he see's as criticism.

Also he is quite 'squeemish' i think. He doesn't really like the wet dirty side of sex. So no oral or kissing and i can tell touching is minimal. When he touches my bits he immediately washes his hands after sex. I have never known a man do that before.

I have had past men worship my body and sadly i have felt nothing for them, and now i have found someone i love so intensely i want him to, and he doesn't want to. it seems like a cruel joke.

I am not absolving him btw. I just have done a lot of research into his fetish and it appears to be a very psychological thing. It is a drive he's had from an early age (before sex). It is something he cannot and does not want to change.

OP posts:
ErikNorseman · 19/07/2012 09:28

What is it?
Maybe massage is the way to go. Buy a book to read together? Would he enjoy a sensual but non sexual massage? That could fulfill your need for intimate touching and if it leads to plastic based sex then you won't feel so detached from him?
Giving a massage is not in itself a sexual act, but it is very intimate and can be loving. That's the sort of attitude he should have, that he's doing something pleasurable for you.

Spuddybean · 19/07/2012 09:39

Yes, Erik i think that is the way to go. We did massage at our NCT course and i was surprised at how much he seemed to get into it/out of it. It appears that when i asked before pregnancy it seemed silly (neither of us the 'sensual' types and i think that's been part of my problem - this was the way i started with him so he has got a pattern now - he has been told he is on the aspergers scale so finds new things/non routine hard). But now he see's it as pain relief he has listened to feedback.

I will get some massage oil. This morning we spoke a little about Sunday (our only day together for ages) and he asked if i wanted him to dress up for me as one of my fantasies. I said no this was a day for us as us. I said i would get some nice food, we could have a shower (i'm too big to share a bath), do some massage, say nice things to each other and have a bed picnic. He seemed quite happy but had a bit of a lost look on his face. I think he needs structure.

OP posts:
FallingOverToys · 19/07/2012 12:43

If he responds well to structure, would it work to say every other time is 'vanilla' ? I realise that might be hard for you to adapt to, it certainly would be for me as I like to 'see how I feel', but it's a thought if you could live with it.

If you accepted his fetish on the way in but also made it clear that it was to be alongside the loving sex, he may well acknowledge on thinking about it that he has 'gone back on what he said' and therefore should make an effort to get back into it.

Spuddybean · 19/07/2012 13:30

Sorry Fallingover - the majority of 'sex' we have is what he considers 'vanilla' ie, the turn taking/toy which lasts about 20/30mins (he doesn't really like PIV - but there is a separate reason for that which i have to tackle).

Then about every other weekend we have the full fetish scenario, which takes about 4 hours (with preparation). And tbh i am starting to feel resentful towards the time it takes up.

So on paper we have more 'vanilla' sex. But the effort is not anywhere near as much as the fetish. Also he is looking at web sites which have the fetish stuff he likes everyday, saying 'oh shall we do this next session?' etc. Which is why when i said lets have sauciness on Sunday he got really excited and said 'what 'scene' shall we do?' I had to say no scene. Just us. So then he suggested he dress up as one of my fantasies instead (which he has done 3 times since we've been together). And i said, no, just us.

OP posts:
FallingOverToys · 19/07/2012 13:44

I am not surprised you are resenting the time. I can promise you now that you will not have that time once the baby arrives (leaving aside any emotional considerations). Does DH realise this?

So it sounds like the 'vanilla' sex where he is 'prioritising' you is not actually what really works for you (any more?) and the fetish stuff where you are 'prioritising' him IS what really works for him - but you are finding it less appealing?

So he is getting something that really works for him and you are getting less and less fulfilment?

Does he acknowledge that this is a joint problem that needs to be worked on so that you are both fulfilled, that there will probably be some trial and error and persistence needed?

ErikNorseman · 19/07/2012 13:48

Jesus H Christ
you have 4 hour sex seshes and you are heavily pregnant? Blimey. It's all a bit much for me. And why do you need to tackle the reasons why he doesn't like PiV sex? It sounds quite exhausting.

Spuddybean · 19/07/2012 14:03

Yes Fallingover that's about it really. The trouble is he is so sensitive to criticism and so thick skinned to suggestions it is hard without saying 'look this is quite frankly shit'. I have bought him books, tried to model what i like and he nods and then does what he normally does and cannot see any difference. So i gently correct, and he carries on the way he was before. Till it gets to the point where i am saying 'No, do it like this'. Then he gets very upset and says that's the way he makes love/stop telling him what to do/barking orders etc.

SO after a while it gets upsetting for both of us. And we just go back to the way it is.

The thing is i pick up on subtlety so easily (i uderstand the way people treat you is the way you want to be treated. I even said once spend a certain amount of time doing x and he spent seconds, then said that must be 10 mins? - it really wasn't but he clearly didn't want to do it, so it felt like ages to him) i cannot fathom how it isn't so obvious what and how to do.

With the fetish stuff i do things i don't really love to do, but i know how much he enjoys it. So part of the doing it is pretending you enjoy it otherwise what's the point - the other person feels like shit. So i pretend, but i am worried if i say 'look, i don't like x, but i do it so therefore i expect you to do x for me and just fucking pretend like i do!' That it will damage the relationship too much.

I know he has these fetishes and i do accept them. But there seems to be no give and take or good will towards my desires.

My exH was exactly the same - so maybe it's me and i'm just too demanding.

Not enjoying PIV sex is physical - it is something which needs to be sorted medically.

OP posts:
FallingOverToys · 19/07/2012 14:06

Ok, I'm going to try and think more about how to advise you but just quickly - it is NOT you and you are NOT too demanding.

ErikNorseman · 19/07/2012 14:26

Your sex life is all about his needs, his fetish, his erectile issues, his likes and his feelings. None of it is tailored to your needs, wishes or likes at all. I'm not suggesting you don't enjoy parts of it, but I am saying he is a selfish lover. Not because he has a fetish but because he's prepared to tell you 'like it or lump it' when it comes to his sexuality, but has no interest in exploring yours.
There is nothing demanding or selfish about expecting give and take in a sex life. And really - there will be zero time for uber sessions when the baby is here, for a long, long time. We went back to our sex life within a couple of months but for many many months it was snatched quickies while DS was asleep and before I needed to collapse for the night. I had no energy or desire for anything else, we didn't do anything other than plain ol' PiV for ages as I couldn't stomach giving him BJs, and I didn't want oral or bumsex until my area was 100% back to normal. I think that took 18 months!
I'm also no expert on the fetish scene or these 'outfits' you refer to but TBH after I gave birth I wasn't in the mood for being dressed up and looked at for a while. Breastfeeding made my tits off limits (couldn't bear them being touched sexually) and any outfit that displayed my stretch marked belly would have been a right turn off for me. I'm telling you this because I think you both need to be prepared for a long time without indulging his fetish in the way he is used to. I'm amazed that you can still be arsed with all of it while heavily pg but the fact is you don't have the baby yet and you have plenty of time.

I am making an assumption that it's DC1 though. Perhaps you have others and it's all cool...?

Malificence · 19/07/2012 14:28

This is only going to get worse once the baby comes, you both must realise that 4 hour sessions of "dress up" just aren't compatible with family life?

I'm sorry but I don't see how this is ever going to work long term without him making an effort to change, you are the one doing all the giving here, read what you've written about not enjoying some of the things you do with him but pretending that you do, does that sound at all healthy?
I know I sound very negative, but all I think is how on earth will he be when you have your baby taking up all your time and energy , is he capable of giving you what you need?

Spuddybean · 19/07/2012 14:40

He doesn't have erectile issues - that has nothing to do with why we don't have PIV.

The outfits, he wears - not me, so no issue with me dressing up/my body etc.

We have discussed that the fetish sex will be off the table for a long time - and will never go back to what it was before children anyway. Which he of course completely accepts. This is why i want something else there to have and fall back on. Because i can't face the turn taking as my only sex life for the rest of my life.

OP posts:
Spuddybean · 19/07/2012 14:46

Oh and yes DC1 :)

OP posts:
Malificence · 19/07/2012 14:48

Just out of curiosity, how have things gone when you've raised other issues with him? I seem to remember a post of yours about his general unwillingness to do anything around the house, even to the point of treading all over post on the mat rather than pick it up - you aren't asking too much you know, to have a partner who pulls his weight, in every sense of the word.

Spuddybean · 19/07/2012 14:52

Ha! he still doesn't pick up the post and just today i almost slipped on my arse from skidding on it.

He still does nothing around the house, but it is fine as it is my actual my job now. I have given up paid work for good. We couldn't go on the way we were and i hated my job, so we agreed he would cover all bills and share money with me and i would do all the work at home.

OP posts:
tiredofwaitingforitalltochange · 19/07/2012 14:55

*I know he has these fetishes and i do accept them. But there seems to be no give and take or good will towards my desires.

My exH was exactly the same - so maybe it's me and i'm just too demanding.*

Read this - what you wrote - and see if it makes sense. It doesn't. There is no give and take, or goodwill towards your desires, but you are being too demanding?

It's not being too demanding to want, even expect, give and take. That's what makes it a relationship. Without give and take it's not a relationship.

Also I asked earlier if your dp is a porn user, and you said no. But then you said he is going on fetish sites every day. The reason I asked about porn is it can 'wire' men to need certain types of sexual stimuli to physically achieve erection/orgasm. There is a pretty tragic syndrome emerging of young men who should be virile and are actually unable to have 'vanilla' sex in their relationships (and often heartbroken about it) because repeated exposure to more extreme sexual images and masturbation over them has made them unable, physically, to get aroused without them. Google 'porn and erectile dysfunction' and there is lots of information.

Fetish sites are no different, qualitatively. Your dp associates sexual satisfaction with the fetish and feeds this by going on these sites all the time. He has probably affected the reward pathways in his brain in such a way that he isn't able to get turned on by more conventional lovemaking. Hence the lack of enthusiasm.

When you've got a baby you won't have time to have 4 hour sessions. You will be lucky if you have time to dry your hair with a hairdryer, iron a single shirt, unload the dishwasher or chat to someone for half an hour on the phone.

It's really important that you address this problem, OP. Your needs are not being met here and you are not being demanding wanting things to change. But your partner has to meet you halfway.

Men who have lost their mojo for vanilla sex (or even soft touch) can usually only get it back with effort and patience. Your Dp's brain is wired for fetish scenarios and he's lost interest. It sounds like he has huge problems with loving touch, kissing etc and you are going to struggle to meet halfway.

I think you should maybe seek some professional advice - maybe from a sex therapist and work out what you want from this relationship going forward. You sound like you are being killed off inside by this mechanistic, impersonal, role playing and want some proper intimacy at least some of the time. You are getting none, at least not in the context of your sexual relationship.

Baby will come along and your sexual appetites will change even more, IME. You will have even less interest in these practices you describe - having children softens us - and however deeply you love you partner, those feelings will have to sit alongside another, more visceral love that you will feel for your child.

Not at all judgemental about porn/fetishes, etc, for the record. If everyone's happy with what they are doing, anything is OK. But you are not happy, and that's what's not OK. You have big problems and you would be wise to address them now, because it's going to get worse. And you have every right to your needs, just as much as your partner has a right to his. Don't forget that.

ErikNorseman · 19/07/2012 14:58

How does he react when you talk about how different your sex life will be? Do you think he really gets it?
Also - and this is just a nosy question - how do you actually ever get aroused? If there is no foreplay, no kissing or touching - is it seriously a matter of 'lie there and let me rub this toy on your clit until you have a physical response and orgasm'? Because - god, that is so unsatisfying. I would rather have the build up and no orgasm than a disappointing 'physical only' orgasm.

tiredofwaitingforitalltochange · 19/07/2012 14:59

Apologies that the last post was so long - just want to help.

Cross posted with this:

it is my actual my job now

And I'd also like to point out that when you've got the baby you have a nightmare ahead if you think you will be able to manage everything in the house and look after your baby properly. If he's not pulling his weight now, it's even more important he does when baby comes, not less because you are not working outside the house.

FallingOverToys · 19/07/2012 15:01

I think that is a really good post from tiredofwaiting.

Spuddybean · 19/07/2012 15:05

I agree tired it has become a self fulfilling prophecy tho. He looks at the objects he likes because it relaxes and satisfies him (not even talking about masturbating but just finds looking at these objects a need, even when a boy. the textures of things relax him etc). This will not change and actually most Psycho-sexual advice says it shouldn't have to and his desires are valid etc.

He has not 'lost' his mojo for vanilla sex, sadly, he appears to never have had it.

OP posts:
Spuddybean · 19/07/2012 15:11

I think he does get it erik tbh. And yes that is also pretty much how our sex life is.

He works very long hours and he doesn't have 'weight' to pull in the house. If i need more help we will have to hire someone. But he has extraordinarily low standards, so he wont be expecting a show home or housework done all the time.

OP posts: