ex SIL preventing nieces from attending special family events

[OneArmedBandit]

my sil and i were close for years.

she and db are going through a messy divorce.

she is refusing to allow their 3 children to attend family gatherings that don't fall on his 'access' days (every other weekend). this access has been dictated by her alone. he used to have them weds nights too but she suddenly decided he wasnt allowed to have them midweek any more.

our other brother is marrying in august and they are bridesmaids.... it got to the point of having to threaten legal action before she allowed them to attend.

now their only surviving grandfather is visiting form overseas at 2 days' notice as a surprise for my 40th (am annoyed with my dad for not giving us notice but he didnt think through the consequences for my db). she has refused to let them see him as she says they have plans, and it not dbs' 'weekend'. you might say fair enough, but how sad that sil sees no value in altering plans to accommodate a rare overseas relative.

she also will allow him to have them only for 10 days over the summer, split into 2x 5 days so he cant do a proper holiday with them.

i dont understand why she hates us all so much. we used to regularly go on holidays etc together and i've really tried to be impartial. why cant she see that keeping the dc away from our side of the family out of spite, is not in the dc's interest. she admitted in a recent email to Db that money was his 'power base' but the dc our her 'power base'. i just want to weep its so awful and hurtful.

when he sees them only 2 days out of 14 it makes it impossible to get to see our side of the family. they have a gran and a great gran who see them about 1% of the time that her own family get to see them. not to metion my poor db who misses them like mad.

i really know the dc and db are the main issue but the extended family get hurt too and i needed to vent . any advice?

So he uses money and she uses the children as weapons, poor poor children is all I can say

I don't think it is fair to expect someone to drop their plans with 2 days notice for someone else.

I think ninjanurse's email is spot on.

I think you should leave it up to your brother and his ex and not get involved.

My ex and I had to go before a judge because we'd forgotten that we had to do the decree absolute. We went back years later to sort it out and were hauled in to the see the judge.

He asked whether visitation etc had been sorted. I said my ex could see the children whenever he wanted, overnight, holidays, whatever. The judge couldn't believe it and asked me to repeat it. I said I would hate to be on a timetable with my children and didn't see why, just because we had problems together, his relationship with the children should be of a kind I would hate myself. So they could see him whenever they wanted to and vice versa. He said that my ex was a fool to want a divorce (we both knew that anyway) and stamped the absolute.

It only works if you trust each other enough to be fair. He wouldn't take them away at Christmas, neither would I, etc. I wouldn't have had children with someone I couldn't trust in a divorce, though - I think that has to be considered beforehand, sadly.

Ok firstly she should not have to change plans st last minute to accommodate your family. Her plans may be of equal importance to her. She is entitled to be unhappy about him asking for authorised absence.
You have read a few emails, that does not mean you know her side. The fact that it has become about 'power bases' and her behaviour suggests to me that your dbro is using money back her into a corner and so she has retaliated with the only thing she has. The children. Its not right, but I suspect both are fighting.
I am also quite shocked that he forwarded you her emails. Maybe she thinks you are all too involved and tbh its sound like you are. Those emails were private. Unless she gave explicit consent for him to share them him absolutely should not have done that.
They are divorcing and she is coming to terms with it. She may be struggling even though the divorce is by mutual consent. Doesn't always make a divorce easy.
I think you should step away and not get involved. I think you ex sil needs timr and not people gossiping. Your dbro is doing the right thing by going for legal assistance and getting access that must be abided by. Unfortunately nothing will be resolved over night and think you should support dbro without getting in the middle.

thank you pigonthewall for acknowledging that maybe, just maybe a mother can sometimes behave badly of her own accord and is not necessarily as a reaction to the man's behaviour.

its funny how all those who think my sil is reasonable have selectively ignored the point in my OP about her banning them from the family wedding as it didnt fall on 'his weekend'. oh yes, she's the mum, she must be the reasonable one. i forgot. must be something that my db did to antagonise her. funny how no-one has responded to the part of the Op about the wedding.

and to the poster who thinks my db has equal opportunity to plan family time when she has them 12 out of every 14 days and her family live locally and who can see the dc during the week... you have obviously decided to ignore all the points that i've raised re the logistics of my brother's situation.

and to the poster who says emails should be private. my db has been depressed and despairing and sometimes he just seems to need to have support from his family.

and to the poster who thinks i'm gossiping, i suggest you revisit my OP and reflect on the tone of it.

and to the poster who said its not their job to facilitate contact with ex's family. is it your job to veto it then?

sil wins. they wont see their grandfather this time. db provisionally got permission from the school for them to miss one single school day to see him. she contacted the school and refused to give her consent. even the eldest-12yo- who has already broken up from school is not allowed to see grandfather as she is going shopping with sil's mum who she sees several times a week.

but hey, obv thats my bd's fault too. my sil does have the monopoly on being reasonable after all.

poor children indeed.

So what exactly is the issue as far as money is concerned?

Does your brother discuss this with you? Or just what a bitch his ex wife is?

Honestly I am not thinking it is your db's fault entirely but I am soooooo on the flip side of this and I know how it makes me feel, constantly having money/child support held over my head. It shouldn't be an issue and for me I would never use my dc as a weapon to fight back against it but I can see how people might when they feel totally helpless otherwise.

I don't think you are gossiping but I do think you are over involved in this and only hearing one side of the story.

One Armed Bandit I'm having to watch my db go though exactly the same thing. But unfortunately he is, as your brother is, male, so its all their fault.

Makes me sad for my ds's that this seems to be the accepted opinion.

And yes I do know that my ex sil is an evil spiteful bitch as I have the pleasure of reading on Facebook how her happiness its the most important thing in the world and comes before all else including her children

I completely agree with ninjanurse & akaemma on this.

Gastonscave, I appreciate that I know nothing about your situation, but I think it's important to remember she's the mother of your nephews/nieces so name calling like that really won't help anyone.

I feel very sorry that she wont accommodate your family's plans - unfortunately Court is unlikely to suddenly make this any better.

He will get increased contact but its not going to persuade her to start being fair.

I hope he manages to sort it - get Solicitors on the job quickly.

Or get him to issue an application at Court for a Specific Issue Order at your local court and he can ask the Court to decide - you dont need a Solicitor for this

iloveACK, no you don't know anything about the situation. What she has put her children through, my family through, how she is entitled and money grabbing. Believe me what I called her is the most she deserves.

When I'm with my nieces I speak about her respectfully. I believe in karma, and I know one day she will have to face up to what she has done

This is typical of MN the woman can do no wrong, her DH was abusive and she is a wonderful mother battling against the odds with her STBX and his family. Its bullshit.
OP you could be describing my DP's ex. It could be that in this instance her plans are immovable but IMO anyone who states that the kids are 'their power base' needs to be sent on some type of divorced parenting class (if only they existed). Children are not bargaining chips.

Sorry for the hijack OneArmedBandit

Well I feel sympathy for everyone but if he is being unreasonable over money well he's not going to help matters.

It seems odd if you previously liked her that she's become so awful over night but I guess no-one knows what went wrong in their relationship and how bitter the divorce is.

Perhaps when all the money stuff is sorted she'll become more reasonable.

I wouldn't worry too much over the grandparent visit - if she wouldn't recognise him in the street a couple of hours one day won't make much difference unfortunately.

Also agree that 5pm home on a Sunday is quite normal surely before a busy week at school. But he should address access arrangements if he's not happy with it to include some week nights too. But surely his family could travel to see the children and why doesn't he bring the children down on a Saturday and go back on a Sunday or am I missing something (quite possible).

I do get though that if this was my brother I'd feel dreadful for him. Is it too late for them to have some form of mediation?

In response to your point about vetoing contact with a childs other side of the family - if this happened to me and a long lost relative appeared on my weekend and I had already made plans with the children (as I normally do on my weekends) then yes, they would not be able to see that relative that day. That wouldnt be 'vetoing it' though, that would simply be 'how it is'. Unfortunately things like this happen when children have divorced parents, you do need to keep to some structure to contact, otherwise its impossible to plan your life.

I would suggest your DB and his ex would benefit from mediation to resolve their differennces around contact. And they make sure it includes Christmas, 'cos thats always a corker to sort out.

pinch of salt all round I think...according to my exH, I always 'prevented' him from seeing our DC, according to me, I bent over backwards to maintain contact and was stood up on countless occasions. Ho hum.

OneArmedbandit, I believe you, some mothers behave dreadfully and their intention is to hurt the ex but use the children as weapons. I have a 'friend' who does this. She is no longer a friend as I couldn't listen to her any longer gleefully telling me how she managed to stop her ex seeing the dc's. It was sickening.

He will have to go to court - please make this happen asap as the longer she holds back contact the longer it becomes the status quo. Sadly there isn't much you can do - awful situation and she is hurting the dc's.

If he needs longer weekend access then he should request Sunday night as well and then he could take the dc's to school.

Trust me though, the dc's will remember who the stroppy & inflexible parent was - by the time they are 14 or 15 they will know if their mum has acted in their interests. If she hasn't then SHE will have to live with that fact.

I can't imagine how I would feel as a mum (later in life) knowing I had been bitter and spiteful and put the dc's in the crossfire. Personally I couldn't live with that. Let her be spiteful - that's her choice and encourage your DB to always try to do his best. Let her 'win' over family events as she is actually the loser in the long run.

See you say all that about the kids "remembering" but I hope my kids will remember that Mum taught them to swim, ride bikes, cook, listened to them whittering on endlessly about Disney Cars and Alvin and the Chipmunks respectively, did their reading, did their homework, gave up her own life for them because their Dad couldn't be ARSED with the practical stuff.

However if you speak to my ex I am a money grabbing, lazy, fat, spiteful bitch who doesn't make enough effort to facilitate HIS relationship with his kids.

He has often said "the kids will understand what what you've done when they're older!"

Well I hope so, I really, really do.

Oh and his Mum and Dad think all the same things about me as you do about your SIL OP and more.

ok i am risking telling way too much here and will probably get the thread deleted eventually. the money issue is that she is currently getting 5k a month whilst telling the dc they cant afford to go on holiday as daddy wont pay (for example). she wants 7k a month.

thanks for those who have posted with a little empathy for my db. i am sorry for your situations. i suddenly know why fathers for justice was set up...

i notice STILL that none of the posters siding with my sil have commented on my sil banning the dc from the family wedding. with 10 months notice. well? is that reasonable too?

i never said she was a bitch. i feel i have lost a friend and am baffled by her hurtful attempts to exclude all of my side of the family from the dc's lives. i still care about her but am angry and hurt beyond words.

many men treat their ex wives like shit. please dont presume you know my db based on your experiences. there is too much baggage on this thread and that is colouring how people are posting as they are projecting due to own feelings/ situations.

akeaemma, my db is NOT your ex. why presume the circs are so similar?

I don't. I explain my own situation from MY side. Because there ARE two sides to all breakups.

You say you got on with her for many years. Don't you think it's strange that she has suddenly turned into SUCH a horrible person?

£5k I wish I WAS your ex SIL!

did i say she was horrible? seriously, when? i said i am hurt and baffled by her behaviour. we have shared family holidays and extended family gatherings for years and now she wants to shut us ALL out.

No but your description of her behaviour is that its horrible isn't it? Why do YOU think she wants to behave like this? Seriously I am interested, you know her, I don't. Have YOU tried to contact her on the basis of your formerly good relationship?