money-obsessed DH making me miserable

[Thankgodforcaffeine]

Before we had DD, we were both on fairly good money and never argued about finances. We would share bills equally, save a bit and spend the rest on meals out, holidays, etc. All was well.

I had saved up enough to cover my half of the bills during the unpaid part of mat leave, and we had agreed that I would go back part-time.

As planned, I now only earn roughly half of what I used to, but our joint incomes are still enough to cover all bills, childcare etc. There is just a lot less spare money for treats, but we were both fine with that. I am much happier playing with DD than buying an umpteenth pair of shoes.

We never really had to follow a strict budget before but we both agreed that we should start following one so we sat down and worked it out.

So far so good. Except that DH is now OBSESSED with the budget. If we ever have to buy something we hadn't planned for, he totally loses it and blames me for overspending. Even though once I have paid my contribution to the household expenses I only have about £30 left in my account for the month, so how I can overspend on a £30 budget I am not sure.

And by unexpected expenses I mean things like a £5 present for a child's birthday, or similar.

If I challenge him and tell him he is overreacting, he just makes sweeping statements along the lines of "one of us has to be responsible". The fact that I survived by myself before we got together is apparently irrelevant. The fact that I am never overdrawn and do not own a credit card is brushed aside. Basically he is talking shite.

Oh, and by the way we are hardly on the breadline: we have more in savings that I earn in a year.

I am getting sick of being talked to like he does, like I am somehow doing something wrong. He earns most of the money and uses it to control me.

Just today I mentioned on the way to the shop that we needed some bathroom cleaner, he snapped back "how much is THAT going to cost now", like I had suggested something frivolous. He has now stormed off home and left me to walk back home because of yet another money-based argument.

I don't know what to do, there is no reasoning with him. Every time I open my mouth it turns into an argument and I am tired of it.

I just want my old, caring, nice husband back. What can I do?

Sorry this turned out to be very long.

It's about control all right.

Whether it's because he has worries you don't know about and is using your household finances as a means of feeling in control, or whether it's because he is just basically a controlling arse, who knows.

The effect on you is the same though. And if he won't talk and won't change, then you are going to have to ask yourself how much longer you are prepared to live like this.

What a fucking abusive controlling manchild he is. he obviously sees you as beneath him.
He reckons hes in the right and that you are the irresponsible one. So you ask him to provide examples of this and he CANT.
Because hes being abusive. Fucking arsehole.
Is there anyone in RL you can talk to about this.
Have you considered ringing Womens Aid even just to talk? They do take financial abuse very seriously. Its just a pity that some members of society dont.

sorry for the swearing. one of my past relationships was financially abusive so when i see someone else going through it it makes me very angry. but i would still be angry about this anyway having been through it or not.

Are you barred from the sitting room? If not go in sit down and ask the question again, or better still go in, close door and stand in front of it and ask the question again. Jeez.

Agree with Mini. Id do this too.

It is hard to tell whether it's abuse or stress simply from what the OP has shared- I'm not sure if any of us is really in a position to diagnose that! What is clear though is you're very unhappy, and for one reason or another he's not listening.

Is it possible to make a time with him when he is calm and relaxed and to sit down and share your feelings and your concerns, and how you would like to work to a solution that doesn't waste money, but does allow you to buy what you all need without all this emotional trauma!

If the he still won't listen, you know them that it is a case of a bit more than super saving. I think then you would be in a good place to suggest that he does need to get help, as it's making your life untenable never mind his.

If he still won't take that on board then it is time for you to think about the choices that you have- and by that I do mean considering how you live- as it's obviously not a sustainable way at the moment.

Sorry you're going through this, I have a very angry and controlling XP - so I have some inkling of how you may be feeling.

Book a w/e away for you and baby. Leave him a ome to sulk about it.

Seriously though, if he won't talk to you then your marriage will go down the pan.

I suppose if he doesn't clean the bathroom he won't see a need to have bathroom cleaner.

mini not barred but I just haven't got the energy today and don't want to subject DD to it

Some how at some point you must summon the energy, not to row but to get this sorted. I don't believe that financial abuse would exist on it's own. It would be part of a much wider pattern of controlling behaviours.

Do you have access to the savings accounts and are they in you name also?

Why not pool all income, if the savings are in joint names, why not the current account?

Dear Thankgodforcaffeine,

Like many posters on here, I think your DH is being abusive. It is unpalatable, but he is using financial control as a weapon to attack you. Why he wants to attack you, God only knows, but I think you are doing the right thing to stand up for yourself. Your gut instinct is telling you that he is behaving outrageously, and you are RIGHT.

Another poster said that many women only realised they are with an abusive partner after children come along. My STBXH became abusive as soon as our daughter was born. I don't know why, but as soon as DD arrived he started treating me with contempt. He adored DD - but that was another proverbial stick to beat me with. I had given up my job and was/am a full-time SATM. He would subject me to interrogations when he got home from work if there was anything untoward e.g Nappy Rash, or DD had a cold. I felt undermined and attacked, but above all confused. Where had my old, loving DH gone. And I wanted him back.

This is not all about me, but the same symptoms seem to be appearing in your relationship. There is no explanation that I could find, but in some ways having an explanation does not alter what IS. Your DH, for whatever reason, is using your reduced earning power to attack and control you. This is unacceptable. And using Money is a way of controlling everything, because money pretty much does affect every aspect of our lives.

You are not being unreasonable. His anger and his attempts to wrong-foot and undermine you are examples of appalling behaviour. He is using his temper to shut you down. You are left feeling gagged and powerless. He is also signalling that he can ratchet up his anger in a way that will leave yours standing - this is also a way of shutting you down. You are feeling angry and bereft, but also totally confused. And confusing you is yet another weapon, as you are left floundering and even less able to stand up for yourself.

My advice is to keep standing up for yourself, but wonder if your old DH is going to come back. He is showing no respect for you. He has you in fear of another of his blow-ups. He gets angry when you stand up for yourself - a good way of chipping away at your ability to do just that. We often talk about 'walking on eggshells' - at least I did - when describing how you avoid more criticism, more spite, more anger, but what is that really? It is called Living in Fear.

I don't know what you can do to address this. He does not want to. But maybe you can find a way to re-assert the fact that you both agreed that you should go part-time and do more childcare and that this is a valid and mutually beneficial allocation of your time. Perhaps hold a 'business meeting' to have an audit of your finances, to establish where you are and to re-agree that what you are doing is what you both value, and that your work looking after your daughter is just as valid as his. He needs to respect you as a person. If he doesn't that then that is a serious problem in your relationship. Maybe you can make that very clear to him as well. Good luck.

Have just looked up signs of financial abuse. I don't think it goes that far, but there are definitely similar traits.

Thanks all for the support and advice. I might go through the employee assistance programme I get through work, and start from there

Oh no. I saved up so I could take a full year maternity leave. He wanted me to go back after 9 months. But that was before he realised what childcare costs.

I think now we would have a very different conversation as he would get how much more expensive ( and less happy it made me and his twin girls) it would be for me to go back.

So much so that there has been no argument or heated discussion about me going back part time and he pays his half of childcare.

Most of my friends have had to do the same - save up in pregnancy to keep contributing during mat leave. I had no idea it was so unusual and outrageous as most people on here think.

But I get the argument. Now I think about it, it is bizarre that I had to do that.

I think I'll make him pay in stealthy ways

Poor OP, I really feel for you :( For what it's worth I do think he is being abusive - and I promise I'm not the 'leave the bastard!' type. I think you need to try and get him to talk and if he won't it might be time for short, sharp shock i.e. take DD and go and stay with family for a few days. Might be enough to snap him out of it and make him realise you are not vulnerable and you do have other places to go.

I also agree with posters who say work out childcare cost and show him what you being at home is saving. It is totally disgusting that you have had to 'save up' for maternity leave (ie unpaid childcare) and are left with the dizzying sum of £30 a week.

BTW I have read people on here saying their DHs have signed up to Martin Lewis type moneysaver sites and HAVE become addicted to saving - especially because people on those forums are encouraged to post their 'savings' at the end. I also think men especially are more vulnerable to becoming controlling when kids come along because by their very nature kids can make life seem a bit out of control and lots of men feel very responsible. This really does sound like misdirected anger and your DH needs to realise he is out of line AND isn't helping anyone.

I would point out that unless he sorts this out then you will leave him, and give him a list of what it would cost him in terms of child support, spousal support, the house, half the savings, half his pension etc

See if that makes him think again!

Ive seen posts on MSE posted by men saying " The childcare eats up half my wifes wages." it just doesnt seem to enter some mens heads that they are responsible for paying for childcare too.

Er wasn't she left with £30 a MONTH not a week?

Here is a good example. I have pointed this out to someone on this MSE thread and got a reply from someone calling women who expect their partners to contribute towards the cost of childcare "loony feminist types"
Ive linked it to the said page.
Ive posted on there as Dark Lady and the reply from Zagfles is a good example of a financially abusive attitude.

forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4009781&page=2

Many men seem to think that women who arent earning but at home looking after children are leeches. Disgusting attitude.

Elephant it was month and thought that was what I had written Poor OP, 30 quid a week probably seems like unimaginable riches living with scrooge...

You are being financially abused and he is using that to control you. This is not so much about money as power and control. He is denying you access to funds.

He knows full well what he is doing and enjoys seeing your discomforture. He cannot answer you and retreats when you try and challenge him.

Its probably a behaviour learnt in childhood as well; what are his parents like?.

I think your previous nice and caring H was just a mirage designed to suck you in and now you have a child he knows you are further disempowered.

I would read "Why does he do that?" written by Lundy Bancroft as you will find him within those pages. He is also being emotionally abusive by accusing you falsely of overreacting when you challenge him, he does not want you to challenge him but to put up and shut up.

Joint counselling is NEVER ever recommended when such types of abuse are present. He has dismissed counselling anyway as mumbo jumbo - he also does not want you to talk to anyone about this as he would be pulled up on it. Also such men would dominate such sessions and make it all out to be their woman's fault anyway. It would not help you one little bit. Also any decent counsellor would never counsel the two of you together anyway because of the ongoing abuse.

Counselling for yourself and alone is a good idea.

And OP I am really glad you chased him and told him straight that he couldn't back up his accusations. He's a shit and he knows it. I'm getting more and more for you.

my ex husband used to do this and so do i to some extent "get a kick out of saving"... i know from my perspective, 1) i need to as a single parent but 2) it is something to control that helps with anxiety....
maybe with your husband it is number 2. The defensiveness and aggression about it is because you are questioning the one thing he can control?

I agree with Attila - and ditto over counselling. I dragged STBXH to Relate and it was horrible - just him shouting and being vicious and blaming me for everything. Counsellor should have put a stop to it and didn't. Be careful about that -I don't think this is one of those situations where you are both 50-50 at fault for the problems in your relationship. I too read Lundy Bancroft at the suggestions of MN and recognised my situation, just. That was a year ago. I read a few pages of it recently and it was very very clear how much my STBXH fitted the characteristics of an abuser. It is very difficult to see sometimes what you are really facing when you are immersed in the situation.

Get counselling for yourself if you can. It will help you see that you're normal, balanced and capable of happiness.

I hear this time and time again about counsellors NOT putting a stop to this when its fucking obvious that there is a case of abuse.

We all know why dont we.......Kerchiiiiing.
It is something that BADLY needs regulating.