need a hand to hold for a minute please....

[DoingItForMyself]

stbxh just texted that the DCs all want to stay there again tonight, despite DD being in tears yesterday that she wouldn't see me tonight if she stayed again and DS2 didn't really want to go at all yesterday.

I feel like the minute they're out of here they've forgotten about me and I feel so lost without them.

H said "its entirely up to you, I told them its your decision" but its not is it, its theirs because if I object I'm being mean by not letting them stay with him.

I know its good that he's finally stepped up to being a dad after all these years of neglecting them, but I'm in tears as its just do unfair that it took me throwing him out after telling me he couldn't cope with being around them for him to start showing any interest in them.

Meanwhile my whole world is crumbling as I've always been a sahm, looking after them was my main purpose and when they're not here for a night its so hard. For 2 nights its awful. I never wanted to be a part-time parent, that was his job, but I feel like I'm being squeezed out and he's still getting the best of both worlds, 5 nights on his own and a couple of evenings of being superdad.

I don't want to take it out on them, but I feel so betrayed by them after everything I've done that they'd rather be with him

I think you need to formalise contact so that everyone - you, him and the DCs - know what's going on and can make plans that won't change. Sorry you feel lost about the 2 nights they are away but that's how shared parenting tends to work. Worth making a life for yourself outside of DCs even if you're not a single parent. One day they'll be grown up and won't need you. Start the transition now.

I went out last night with some friends - we would have had a better/longer night out if we'd gone tonight, but we made it last night because the little DCs wanted to be here tonight, so I feel like I've been messed around by them and by him.

He said DS had forgotten his coat and could I drop it off at school. I told him to come and get it as it was his day, I'm busy. When he arrived he mentioned about them staying and said its entirely up to you, but I said its not up to me, its up to them, and no, its not ok but I can't stop them from staying with you if you offer it, and then burst into tears and told him to fuck off. Just wish I could be stronger so he doesn't see that it gets to me.

sidles in for a quick hand-hold. :(

Poor you. It's really rough. You know that your children will be in safe hands. Don't feel betrayed by them, you know deep down that the only reason they feel confidence to branch out and see their dad, after all the upset, is because you've done a great job grounding them and making them feel secure.

That's it. You DID this for them. Be proud that they are rallying as well as they are and take that pride and apply it to yourself. You did that. Awesome parenting, Doingit. :)

They don't forget about you when they are with him. They are just with him so they are thinking about what he is going to do and I am sure they are thinking about you.

You share children and it wouldn't be fair for him not to see them equally.

Can you plan treats for yourself when they are sleeping over at his?

I honestly would say he is right in that it is "up to you", or rather "up to you and him" to make the decisions that you both, as adults, know are for the best interests of the children.

Children are easily swayed by being allowed to stay up a bit later, or anything that is different from the norm... and they need a routine when you are in this situation, it is not good to let them make the decisions.

I know I should be happy that they all want to see him, but the main reason I put up with his emotional abuse was to give them a stable home, but when he told me that spending time with them makes him feel angry and that he couldn't cope with the overwhelming noise and demands of being in a family I told him to leave.

ow he seems perfectly happy and able to look after them, so it just means it was me that he was unhappy with, so I now feel rejected by him and by them, they're all having a happy little family without me, when that was supposed to be 'the good thing' that came out of all this for me.

My ex became a better dad to my DS when we separated. He was pretty disnterested when we were together but he has had him every other weekend since he was 2 (now 12) They have a great relationship and I am thankful for that - that would not have happened if we were still together - life has funny ways of turning out. Like you, I didn't plan on not being a full-time parent. I used the weekend without my DS to do things I wanted to do and I came to really enjoying the time. I agree that it is also fair for you to have set times that they are gone. My son goes at 11.00 on a saturday and is back by 2.00pm on Sunday. x good luck

formalise contact and stick to it

it will reduce all these "last minute" headfucks

you will know where you are, and the kids will have less oppotunity to play you off one against the other

which is what all kids do, it is normal and especially so when they know they can get more "treats" from one separated parent than the other

yes, you are "boring mum" who makes them do all the mundane stuff, and he is seen as exciting daddy because he doesn't probably spend much time nagging them to brush their teeth and do their homework

the only way you can influence that (and get yourself out of the silly mindset that your kids are "letting you down") is to makle sure that contact for him is formalised and arranged in such a way that he also has to contribute to the boring stuff too

I don't know your kids outines but eg. a mate of mine made sure contact was on swimming lesson night which she detested sitting through and during weekend contact the bag of school unifom washing went along plus the homework books etc

it must be fucking annoying to be mummy drudge left at home, facilitating his "superdad" act by having everything micromanaged for him

stop doing it

*routines

I know we need to get visiting sorted properly, H emailed through a huge list of shift changes yesterday, so now I have to go through and check every day this month to change when he's working and when he can have the DCs. I was so fed up of his poxy shifts dictating everything I ever did and they're still causing me problems with planning stuff.

Parties and playdates all have to be planned around H now rather than me just presuming I will be the only parent here and agreeing, I have to check if they're with him, ask if he's happy to do it. I just wish he'd disappear but I know that wouldn't be good for the DCs. I feel so selfish.

Bit of hand-holding, but also a bit of a stern chat too! Meant nicely & with 9 years experience of this under my belt.

DoingIt, you must separate your feelings of loss, from this idea that your children are rejecting you. Your children are not rejecting you, they are simply spending 2 days with their father. If you start projecting "rejection" on to them, this is not going to end well.

Get arrangements formalised, then everyone knows where they stand. You can make plans for things while they are with their Dad & there won't be last minute ad-hoc stuff.

Also, have a think about living life for yourself & not just as the primary carer for your children. If you have a rounded life with other interests, then you won't feel this sense of loss so acutely.

Thanks all, I know I need to find other things to do apart from MN when they're not here. I am trying to build up my business, so this time will give me extra flexibility to do that. I can also make time for some hobbies, which I've never really done before.

Sensibly I know I'll have so much more free time than ever before, so I should be glad but I'm not H so I never resented being with my DCs

I will try not to make it about them choosing me or him, as I know that especially after all these years of me being the only main parent, they will be excited about actually spending time with him.

I just feel so low today but this has helped me put it in perspective thanks.

Doingit - quick hand hold and

Of course your kids think about you and miss you when you are not there. You are their mum! They are going to be so excited to see you when they do get home.

Agree with Any It's the last minuteness that makes things really difficult to cope with (from experience of last OH...)

Am about to be in your position so have avidly read the advice you've been given Doingit.

I totally understand your pain. Your kids will know as they get older who the stable rock parent is (you) and your bond with them will be strong. I'm glad for your kids that they'll also grow up knowing how much their Dad loves them too.

Big hug and here's a to cheer you up!

Thanks for all the hands and ! x

If it's you that is always there for them, it'll be you they adore really (especially when they are upset or lonely). I expect he is plying them with treats, but they will soon get sick of that.

Ah how sad am I, I just got an email from Ocado saying they miss me and they have a "DoingIt shaped hole in their lives"!!!

It actually made me feel warm and fuzzy that a supermarket wants me, what does that say about my self-esteem?!

Oh, bless. Take the warm fuzzies! Free gift from Ocado

I thought I'd better post on your own thread instead of Wobbly's. Of course you need to formalise contact asap, and keep all communication to email. Tough but you can do it. Calmly.

I'm going to suggest a trick. Going by your posts to Wobbly, he's dependent on mirroring for his sense of self. Try feeding him a version that will be helpful to you - you want him to formalise contact asap? Reflect him as though he's the one who wants not to confuse the children, would prefer it all cut & dried, etc. It might take some doing, depending on what support you have, and be very aware it will be FAKE. But give it a shot if you can.

You don't need him to be nice, remember. You just need to get the best out of what he is (stage manager )

I would make it a 'set couple of nights' each week and tell him that, when his shift pattern comes through that you'd be happy to swap some nights with him ONLY if he gives you 2 weeks notice AND your dcs have not already got other arrangements in place - although if its a playdate, he could pick them up from that - why should you have them all on your days?

Good point Garlic, he is all about the DCs not being affected 'in any way' by this monumental change in their lives, so I'll sell it to him that they need their normal boundaries and to know where they stand.

Mistle, I've already told him that if he is given shift changes that I can't just rearrange everything for the DCs and myself, so he'll have to work round it or swap with someone else.

So he sent through a list with 24 changes on it throughout July & August!!!! Some of them may be just a few hours different (couldn't even be bothered to check yet) but really - when I say you can't just mess us all about, this is the response!

No, this is not YOUR problem Doing. He needs to tell you. The default position should be that these nights are 'his' and he's got to sort it. It should not be your responsibility to go through a sheet and check things. That's not him taking responsibility. Be prepared to swap nights but basically if its 'his' night and he can't pick them up from school or wherever he'd better sort it out himself.

Oh, It's really rough. You know that your children will be in safe hands. Don't feel betrayed by them. Sending a big hug.

I think there has to be a limit to how flexible you are about contact. Otherwise you will never be able to make longer term plans involving work, school, holidays etc. let alone social events. The children also need a regular routine of contact. I don't actually think it's right that you leave these decisions to the children, making them choose whether to extend agreed contact times (whether or not they subsequently feel stressed or guilty, it's still an unnecessary burden on them). The two of you as parents need to decide these things.

He is a parent and now has to organise his life around his children, just like you do - without the support from you that he previously relied on.

You need to spell it out to him that you need a formal arrangement which cannot be changed every few weeks. Instead, he has to approach his employer and ask them to take into account his parenting responsibilities when they organise their shift rota. This is what all single parents have to do!

What stage are you at in relation to formalising the financial and residence/contact arrangements for the divorce? You might find arrangements which were previously amicable (due to you always providing support when he needs it) become less so when he realises that separation means you start getting on with your own life and no longer arrange everything around his availability.

If this becomes a problem you might try mediation.

Make sure the bugger hasn't told the DCs he's having them an extra night because YOU didn't want them back. Just the sort of emotional manipulation XH was always up to.

Thank you all.

Olgaga, we previously said (when it was all a bit more amicable) that we weren't thinking of divorce yet, that its just about getting used to our new situation. I know things will escalate at that point, as we start to 'discuss' how I've been a SAHM while he's been earning most of the ££ but how my mum's inheritance was used to buy this house. I can see it all going very wrong, so I'm tempted to put off the D word for a while until I'm in a better financial & emotional position.

I have every expectation that if I don't agree to any & every change he wants to make that he will start to make life difficult for me but I don't think he will withhold money, as he knows that will impact on the DCs (and more to the point, look bad on him).

In fact, apart from the money, I can't think how else he can have a negative impact on me any more! Once I have all the bills & utilities in my name, the bank accounts and business all sorted, all he will have is the DCs to use against me, so I suppose if I am able to accept that they should all spend time with him, that having them stay with him is a good thing, he's got nothing left to hurt me with.

I will have more time to earn my own money while they are with him, then I can start to wean myself off his money and won't feel the pinch so much when he finally inevitably uses that as his weapon.

Annie I don't think he'd dare say that as he knows they'd tell me, but he may well be bit PA about how 'mummy works very hard and needs a break from them' or something. I can't complain as they are well aware that part of the reason he doesn't live here is because he finds it difficult to share his space and his time with us (they knew this before he left). It may well be why he is trying so hard to prove otherwise now.