Abusive partner or just me being dramatic?

[PandaSpaniel]

A bit of background, DS1's dad was a emotionally abusive prick and I am so glad I got out of that relationship. DS1 age 7

DS2 age 16 weeks and I have just split up from his dad.

The beginning of the end was a few weeks ago when I told him I had increased my overdraft as we were skint - note MY overdraft not his! He lent over me in bed and screamed at me that I was a stupid bitch, a silly c*nt etc etc and I felt so trapped I ended up hitting him to get him off me.

A couple of days later, he had a hangover and I asked him to pop to the shop for some bits and went to take our baby off him so he would go and he ended up punching me in the arm whilst I was holding baby. He said I had snatched DS2 off him.

I tried to put it behind us but since I have had DS2 I have felt like I have had to do near enough everything and he could still get pissed up at the weekends and not bother with night feeds etc.

Partly my fault with the night feeds as I was BFing until a week and half ago, so I said he could sleep in my sons room so he wouldn't be disturbed. Too generous? ? But I got to the stage where I wasnt coping and he managed to do one night on his own while I stayed at my mums but the next night got drunk and left me to it!

He calls me every name under the sun when we argue and only two days ago he lashed out at me and hit the bed post at the last minute rather than hit me. I know reading this that he is abusive or at least getting that way and I know I need to stay away from him for my childrens sake if not my own.

But you just wouldn't think he was abusive. To anyone else he is just a normal lad who likes a drink at the weekend (he doesn't drink during the week) who gets tired cos he works long hours, so doesn't like his sleep disturbed.

Sorry this is a bit rambling, I am feeling really confused as to whether I am just being paranoid and dramatic or if he really is abusive?

Panda

What did you yourself learn about relationships when growing up?.

Re this comment:-
"I am hard to live with, I am demanding and can be selfish. I recognise this in myself and my mum (who is fab and very supportive) does point this out (in a lovely gentle way)"

How does she exactly point out that you are "demanding" and "selfish?". I think you are neither because you have put your children first by showing them it is not right for anyone to be abused in such a manner like you have been. Some parents who are demanding and selfish themselves project that onto their children i.e you in this case.

Is that what you were also told in childhood too?. If so it is not altogether surprising that you have ended up with abusive types in your adult relationships and you need to unlearn those damaging lessons.

What is there to love about this man, what did you get from this particular relationship?.

No counsellor would ever see the two of you together because of the previous abuse. Sole counselling for yourself however, is needed. No-one benefits from being in an abusive relationship. Two adults who both have a lot of issues just leads to two adults having serious relationship problems.

You have done so well to date in getting rid of undesirable role models for your children. Keep on working on yourself and get yourself to a healthier place in your relationships. Instead of trying to make a now dead in the water relationship work, work on having a healthier relationship with your own self. Love your own self for a change.

Abusive men can and do take a long time to recover from; the Womens Aid Freedom Programme may well be something you could benefit from.

Why do you want the relationship to work? If it is for the child and not for you, or because you don't want to be alone or think you can't do better then this would be ill advised IMHO. I do not believe you can have couples counselling when there has been abuse, emotional, physical and verbal at least from what you have written. Couples counselling would focus on re-uniting you and compromise not him learning not to abuse you. I have no idea at all why on earth you would want to o back? Have you had women's aid counselling deprogramming because you seem to be socialised to accept abuse as normal.

Mate...don't do it. I recognise your thought processe. I let abusive partner #2 get away with murder because he didn't do the same shit as #1until the point that I realised he was just as bad but in a different way. If he thinks that he has done nothing wrong by physically intimidating you then there is something badly wrong with him. Its only now I have met my wonderful supportive loving money earning responsible non violent always respectful fella I realise I didn't have to settle for any level of crap no matter what mental health history I have had. A good relationship is so far from what you have experienced you don't even know what that's like until you are in one. Its not you. Its him. There are better men out there who you never have to make excuses for. I thought I was a magnet for abusive twats but I have realised I just made two bad choices with two expert liars and practiced abusers. That was their bad not mine. Please stay strong. Your children should never have to see the sort of scenes you described. Even a verbally stormy relationship can cause so much damage to kids and I should know! He does not deserve your time or your love. You only have to speak to him to discuss when he picks up his son. Keep to that subject and you won't feel dragged back emotionally. Stay strong.

I think I want it to work because I am scared of being alone, I want my lil boy to grow up with his dad, I do love him, I think he can change.

I am currently waiting to get on the freedom programme, hoping this will help me become more independent and help me whatever I decide with regards to the relationship. I am also going back to college as well.

My mum and dad have been together over 30 years and my brother is getting married next year and no abuse in either relationship, so goodness knows what went wrong for me. My mum doesn't say "Oh you are demanding" She just points out that sometimes I seem to expect a lot from people, partner, mum, friends etc.

But what specifically is "a lot". I'm still sceptical there is no abuse in your parents' relationship with each other/you. Not just based on your description of what she has said to you but based on your description of abuse as "normal lad behaviour".

Being alone is hands down better for you and your son than being with an abuser. What if he really hurts you one day? What if he hurts your children? I don't think you can possibly say he won't because you have no idea if the time he punched the bed and not you was just because he thought you'd leave. If you take him back you give your approval to being abused, no matter what you may discuss your actions will speak louder than words and your children will grow up thinking that physical abuse is normal.

Better to be alone than to be badly accompanied. No man is better than an abusive one calling you names and dodging all responsibility for his actions.
Consider this as well. If you were to choose to stay with this individual your son may well grow up to wonder why you put this abusive man before him. If you were to say, "well I stayed because of you" he would call you a silly cow. Such men do not change either.

Your son has every right to see his Dad so you only have to facilitate that through a contact centre if needs be. If this man goes onto let his son down, then that will be this man's fault and choice and not of your doing.

Good on you for going back to college , hopefully you will be able to get on the Freedom programme soon.

What exactly do you love about him? Name three things that are so good it makes up for being called names and pinned down. I take it back. It IS you as much as him. If you just keep saying " but I love him" then this situation becomes of your own making. You are giving him a strong message that this is OK. If you aren't interested in taking the advice you have asked for then dont complain when you take him back and he carries on abusing you. He doesn't want to change so you have to. If you choose to be a victim then don't bitch about it. When my relationships turned nasty I walked and cut contact completely. That's how you get away from an abuser. Man up.

You can always and should always complain about abuse! However in his mind you give him approval by taking him back. Imagine if your child was being treated this way by a partner and think what you would feel.

hazeldog you are right, I can't name anything that makes up for violence. I am really confused and unhappy. I want a good relationship and I want it to be with him but I know that is unlikely unless he realises what he has done.

Maybe you have heard this all before, but he was never violent for over 2 and a half years, it is only recently and I still feel to blame in some ways. Why am I making excuses for him? I don't know, I honestly don't.

There is counselling available for us, both together and individually, isn't that worth a go? Can people change?

I haven't taken him back. No way is he moving back in. I may be stupid but even I know there is a lot of damage done and it takes more than words to mend it.

We are simply talking as friends and that's it at the moment, if he did go to counselling and I started to trust him again, only then would I consider anything else.

Counselling is not appropriate when one party is abusive.

Please re-read the beginning if this thread and remind yourself how strong you were to leave him. Do you know how many women can't find the strength to do that? You deserve a better life than with this man. You do.

Get the counselling yourself and focus on you and your kids, not him.

You're a nice, normal, healthy sounding lady PandaSpaniel, and your feeling that your partner can change comes from your good heart.

My good friend had an abusive husband. I actually thought he was using drugs, because his abusive behaviour was so bizarre and extreme, compared with how he appeared in everyday life (nice guy, sense of humour, apparently dutiful Dad).

Now I know better. It appears that certain kinds of destructive behaviour, and attitudes, may be hardwired in some people. It can go hand in hand with some very appealing (or apparently appealing) personality traits. And there are very, very few cases where the dysfunctional responses cease, and the good stuff stays. You get both, or neither.

Lundy Bancroft has the data to back this up: I'm only going on what I've seen.

It also seems typical for abusive behaviour to emerge over time, and gradually escalate. Dishearteningly, abusers very rarely, if ever, realise what they've done, and by default blame it on other people. Many spouses are willing to take that blame too, hence the 'it's my fault, I'm terrible to live with!' cry which we see so often, and heard from you earlier. :(

Having said that.... all decisions are yours to take, PandaSpaniel. You've got to do what seems best to you at any one time. We're rooting for you...

It is normal for abuse to start after you have been together a while, it is the "but he was lovely before" excuse. Why are you talking as friends with a man who has abused you so soon?! You are sending all the wrong messages because what you are thinking is it is partially your fault, that's what you are saying to him and that will not make him "realise what he has done" it will make him feel entitled to carry on doing it because after all you are "SO difficult to live with and press all his buttons. It isn't anything to do with how you are as a person, abuse like this is not down to you depressed or not.

Counselling is very inappropriate. When there is abuse counselling together can make it worse in exactly the way I describe. You cannot change him and he cannot change when he is with you. He can only change if he wants to and I very much doubt he would ever be able to be with you again, if so it would have to be after a very long time of actual separation not "talking as friends" and going to counselling together which is a separation not a split so I'm afraid I don't believe you have even sent a message that the relationship is over, what does that say to him - he gets to emotionally, physically and verbally abuse you and then you go to counselling to work it out and take half the blame. You need to cut all contact with him until you have been on the freedom program. There is no way you should be his friend or go to counselling, that would be ridiculous.

I don't think you can "take him back" if you have never dumped him tbh...

He has moved out but he sees his son and step son every day. I can't not see him as he needs to pick the children up and it would be upsetting to them if I didn't at least say hi.

I am taking on board everything that has been said on here and will be speaking to a lady tomo to get more info on the freedom programme. I think I need to do the programme and have some space away from my ex and see how things go from there.

I think if there is any hope of him changing then him waiting for me to feel ready (and complete the freedom programme) isn't a big deal. I haven't actually told him what I am doing, I will just say I am not ready to be back in a relationship.

Isn't there a freedom programme for abusers so to speak? I am sure in the book it says there is a programme for abusers and that it is quite successful. I get the point that we shouldn't have counselling together but I was under the impression from the lady I spoke to about counselling that they can help a abuser realise what he is doing and how to change behaviour???

Your baby is 16 weeks old and he is not your older child's father. Considering there has been abuse you could totally justify cutting all contact until you have been on the freedom program. He sees you every day, you are pleasant to him, you are organising counselling for him so you can stay together - does that sound like it is sending a message to him that how he was treating you is completely unacceptable? It sounds as though the relationship is ongoing and you want to work it out and are actually taking the responsibility for sorting it out.

You do not mention that he is ashamed and seeking help and staying away from you, you don't mention him at all or what he is doing to take responsibility for himself and what he has done, he's happily coming along everyday and you are not rocking the boat and he is biding his time and keeping his foot in the door. You are thinking "but he was so lovely when I first met him, it must be me that drove him to it and if I can fix myself and him it can be lovely again" nothing you have said or I think done will help that to happen if it ever will. You need to stop thinking of him as the person you used to see and think of him as the person who abused you and frightened you. That is who he is and abusers are not only that, sometimes they are lovely, if they weren't ever lovely you would leave. He was escalating his abuse, you have physically separated from him so right now he is not abusing you, he sees you everyday, it may be a matter of time before it starts, you have not ended the relationship and you don't want to.

You are responding to this as though it is some kind of fairly moderate relationship problem not a very significant problem with him exclusively and that is teaching your bigger ds that when someone hits you it is your problem as well and you deal with it by being pleasant and working together. The difference between your x and this man may just be that you kicked him out of the house before it really escalated.

You cannot help him, you are not the right person. Only he can help himself, he probably doesn't want to. Even if he does perhaps going on the freedom program can help him have a normal relationship with someone else if he organises and seeks it himself I.e. takes responsibility for it FIRST but the chances of you getting over this and having a happy relationship are almost zero I would think. You would find it hard not to expect abuse and he would find it hard not to provide it given your history. In order to have any chance of achieving it you would need complete separation during recovery, him seeing his child and not your older one (why you would let him have access to his stepson when he is violent and abusive is beyond me) perhaps in a contact centre.

Offred he isn't violent towards the children, obviously I wouldn't let him see them if I thought I was putting them at risk. Also it has only been two occasions of violence in 3 years, its not like he is beating the crap out of me daily.

However I have been having a long hard think about things and we are NOT getting back together. I am still being civil to him but I now know I need to move on and not have some romanticised view of us getting back together and everything being rosy.

I know that wont happen as:

1, He still hasn't taken responsibility for what he did, he has glossed over the fact that he hit me and somehow (in his eyes) its my fault for winding him up and also the fact I hit him, even though he had me pinned to the bed.

2, He is still showing little interest in family activities. He just doesn't seem interested. This is a big thing for me, I don't want to be with someone who sits in doing nothing.

3, In the time we were together, I made it clear I wanted to get married. He has shown no sign of wanting this and uses excuses and pushes blame onto me saying that if I hadn't spent all HIS money then he could have saved up. Bollocks, if it had been something he had wanted, he would have done it by now. I would say no now anyway so its kind of a moot point.

4, I took a long hard look at things and said to myself "Could I and would I be happy if in five years I was still with him and married to him?" My answer was no. I have been kidding myself thinking I could forget what he has done and move on. I am just scared of being a single mum to two kids with two different dads. No job at present and no prospects. (I am going back to college but it just feels that way.)

I keep weakening as I do worry what others think and how bad it looks from the outside. All I ever wanted was a family and a good man and somehow I have managed to f**k it up royally!

You haven't fucked it up and I'm really glad to hear this about separating yourself. Be careful about the children, if he's hit you he may need supervision when he is with the children you can't trust him.

You are doing well and it would be good for you to get some practical support in RL, maybe from women's aid.

You are wonderful and you have much to offer and you need probably to believe that a bit lot more. You've kicked two into touch now, that is amazing but unfortunate too. It is not your fault.

Thanks, I realised that my main reason for wanting to get back into a relationship was fear of being alone. Not a good reason at all. Also I don't want to fit into the stereotype of single mum with kids from different dads. I live in a town where it seems its every other mum in that situation.

I just needed to realise that it doesn't matter what others think. My friends and family know who I am and that I am a good mum and will give me the support I need to move on and be independent.

Yes, it is not a good reason to stay with someone who treats you badly. You have two kids with two different men, plenty do (I have four with two), you are a single mum, there are much worse things - such as staying with a man who hits you or being a person who hits others. You are very strong to leave and stay away it is hard, very hard.

Hi PandaSpaniel.... it sounds as though you've come to some very calm conclusions about what you will, and will not accept. This is wonderful.

As Offred says you certainly haven't f'd anything up, and no-one who knows anything of what you've been through will be judging you negatively. Quite the reverse.

If I can hark back to my friend again, she too was very worried that people would think ill of her. Well, there wasn't much she could do about her DH's relatives, and some people will always judge others negatively whatever happens.

Those of us who cared knew what she'd been through, and were only unhappy she'd put up with it for so long. It did take some considerable time for her to leave.

Incidentally, if it brings comfort ? she is not alone, and now has a lovely new partner and stepfather to her child.

So ....you never know :)

The abuse aside.

Why is it ok that he gets trollied all weekend and doesn't do any of the hard parenting stuff??

Because he works?? Its not the 50's!!! What happens when you go back to work? Do you still have to do it all??

What right has he got to tell you what to do with your bank account.

I take it you're not married to him. Thank heavens.

Basically from your OP he wants to do what he want and have you at home tired and unable to do anything.

Thats abuse in itself OP.

Well done for seeing this and getting so early into DS2's life then he doesn't have to witness the abuse.

Thank you everyone. I am seeing things a lot more clearly now. Tonight he really pissed me off and silly me didn't do anything about it.

He came round as normal to see his son and step son and I was caught cat napping as baby has had a bad day teething so I cuddled up next to him in bed to get him to sleep. My mum let my ex in and took baby downstairs. I came downstairs to find him playing a game with his step son. I said are you not taking DS2 out and he replied "No, I thought I would see my step son as well today"

So as he said it in front of my son, I felt I had no choice but to let him stay in the house with us. I am not scared of him, I don't ever think he would hurt the children but I was furious as it is just another way of him trying to control me.

He then went home an hour early as his Grandma wanted a chippy tea and when I said he couldn't just go an hour early as he was supposed to be seeing his son he started "Well if you're going to be like that..." I didn't let him finish, just said don't let it happen again.

I am too soft, I know I am.

I am going to text him (I am chicken) saying he needs to actually take his son out and if he wants to see step son regularly then it will have to be two days a week, decided by me, and he has to actually take him out too. I don't want him in the house, it is too confusing for DS1.

I am glad he wants to remain a part of his step sons life but am scared he will get bored somewhere down the line as he is already going home early now.