Would you ban your mother from seeing your kids if she was screwing them up?

[Wills]

The only phrase that has ever felt right about my mother is that she is a very needy person. Her mother physically and mentally (NOT sexually) abused my mother as a child. This has left my mother extremely needy of love. I have spent too many years jumping through the complex hoops my mother sets before me for me to prove to her that I love her and have finally "cut" the apron strings and am living my life and raising my kids how I want. My mother would call us estranged, I'd call our relationship as approaching normal for the first ever time. The problem is my kids. I have two girls, 5 and 2.5 and another child on the way. So far she's seen them at least once a week. They adore her, she's incredibly fun to be with. Naturally she adores them but its because they love her. Its not a normal relationship. She can't seem to see them without lavishing presents on them, its as though she's buying their love. She's also incredibly jealous of them loving anyone else. Up until now I've been able to tell myself that since they only see her once a week that this is ok, that I can counter anything she says or does. Now I'm not so sure. Its my 5 year old, (her favourite - she persauded me (told me) to go back to work my dd1 was 3 months so that "I could have a career without worrying as she'd look after my children for me" - I stopped this when I had my second something she is still furious about). My 5 year old is coming home with strange phrases and is distinctly unsettled when she gets back. Things like "If nobody else loves me Nanna will always love me". Or (whilst clutching a picture of my mother that she'd give my 5 year old) "Nanna's told me to keep this picture close just in case I feel lonely". My dd1 is not lonely. She is very popular at school, have loads of friends with children, and a large family on both sides all of whom regularly visit and adore our children (we're the only ones with kids so far). Do I stop this now. I don't think it will work to tell my mum to stop. She doesn't know she's doing it.

I really sympathise with you, have something similar to deal with with regards to my mum - she is so oppressively possessive of my ds but in a really unhealthy and weird way (personally i think she sees him as her 'second chance' as she was a crap mum with me). I moved to a different country and we see my parents three times a year for a long weeekend, which is as much as I can take. I agree there's no point talking to them. Do you live close by and is there any way of taking some distance?

Oh god this is all really tricky isn?t it? But I suppose you know in your heart what the answer is already. After all you see how damaging it was it have this sort of dysfunctional relationship yourself.
TBH it does sound a bit worrying, at that age if children are repeatedly told something about themselves it can effect their sense of self (ie she might actually end up believing she is no good at making friends). You?ve done a really strong and amazing thing coming to terms with this so far so I?m sure you?ll be strong through this too. But as you say yourself your mum is not a well woman and is never going to change her behaviour.
Hugs,

Yes I live 10 mins drive away. and yes.... we've moved a further 100 miles away. We're starting up a "new" life and my mother can't cope with it. I feel bad over hurting my mum but.... what the hell are you going to say to your kids when they're older and make contact of their own accord? She's not rational.

I think I'd cut down on visits - once a week is too often. Once a month would be better.

I have a loony mother too, and there's no point discussing anything with her, because she just doesn't know what you're talking about.

It's a difficult one. I have started to say things like "yes well Nanny's got some mad ideas about some things" but I'm a bit uncomfortable about undermining her as I sort of feel I'm giving my children a bad role model of what the relationship between a grown up mother and child should be. However, I can't help it, she's bonkers and I won't be (though who knows, maybe I will be). Don't really know what the answer is, apart from less influence from her and more influence from other, saner people in your life so that her messages are undermined by better messages.

you said it already in your post - creating a healthy distance between you and your mum is just going to normalise the relationship. It doesn't mean that your children will never have any contact with their grandmother. you cannot be responsible for your mum's happiness & emotional wellbeing. Be strong love, you are doing the right thing for you and your family.

Just clocked that you're moving 100 miles away.

Good move!

Thanks. Now do I tell her that I'm cutting visits down? I'm bombarded each week with pleading emails/phone calls saying she's desperate to see the kids?

I don't think I'd cut off contact all together. But from what you say it sounds like your children are still on occasion spending time alone with their grandmother which is the times when the "brainwashing" (is that too strong a word?) is going on. So I would try and stick to just family visits in the hope that your presence will moderate your mother's behaviour.

How can seeing her grandchildren once a week constitute estranged?

I wouldn't say that I'm cutting visits - I'd just let it happen naturally. Make sure you accept a few sleepover or party invites - and if there aren't any - issue some yourself! Arrange to have other friends over that weekend, or to be going out together somwhere as a family - if you do it gradually, and have the attitude that "well, kids nowadays have such busy social lives" you may avoid a confrontation.

otoh, some people are determined to confront!

yes

my two dds saw my mum last week for the first time in 2 years

heartbreaking but sometimes necessary x Enid

Agree with Caligula's approach.

Yes, move a nice distance away. My entire family lives in the Us, and I must say it does have it's advantages. It has it's drawbacks too, of course. But, you have to do whaat is right for your children first. I'd just make myself busy on the days she normally sees your mum. 100 miles is pretty far. I'd say a monthly visit to her is reasonable.

Think my dh might struggle with a monthly . The problem is that she's already announced that she's not prepared to travel to us - although to be honest I should simply ignore her on that one. We also have the rest of the family to consider. We're moving to where we're moving purely to try and start a couple of businesses which mean that I don't have to work full time and my dh wont spend his life on a train. Unfortunately this means moving away from all family and friends. The rest of the family and friends completely understand what we're doing and are looking forward to visting us. Once we move we're rather hoping that free weekends are fairly rare. However I agree that I like the idea of ensuring that one of us is around at all times and reduce the amount of one to one access my dm gets with my kids.

A very close friend of mine is going through a very nasty divorce. I'm stunned by the number of similarities I'm seeing between her setting up her ex's access to her kids and my mother's access to mine. It feels ridiculous.

Well that's a result, the fact that she won't travel to you - she's doing half the work for you!

If you have to travel to her, it's much easier to not be able to do it.

And I might even have a couple of car problems on the days scheduled for visits!

we moved a couple of hundred miles away and my parents declared that they are not prepared to come down and visit us at all as they don't like to drive that far and the train is too expensive.

so we never see them.

(also mum is mad but there you go)

Agree totally with caligula. Don't have a dramatic conversation about cutting back contact with her. Just wriggle out of doing what you don't want to do. As caligula says, her refusing to come to you just makes it easier for the "Ok sorry you can't make it. See you in a month when i can bring the girls to you." excuses to trip off the tongue.

Also if you travel to her, you can decide how long to stay. You can keep visits as short as you like.

True! I must admit the idea of her coming to stay with us fills me with dread. She'll spend the whole time dripping around and sighing dramatically hoping that I'll finally ask her what's wrong so that she can launch on her attack of the way I'm treating her. I've done it soooo many times. Its driving her nuts that I don't ask nowadays how she is. Mind you.... took me a long time to stop doing it.

Ah... another mad mother thread! How common they are! (Sorry - don't mean to be flippant, but there's been a couple of threads going in the 'Chat' section about this kind of thing.)

I haven't seen or spoken to my parents since Christmas. There's a lot more to it, but one issue is the way my mother has spoken to me in front of my child. She's only four months old, but it's unacceptable for my mother to verbally abuse me in front of anyone really - and primarily my child. I'm sure my mother is very hurt at the moment, but she has no sense of the irrational nature of her own behaviour (and no anger management whatsoever) - but I don't feel that I can expose my child to that kind of toxic environment.

Emotional abuse takes so many subtle forms...

God doesn't it!!!! I'm glad I've made the break in my heart and that's the hardest bit. I think I will always feel guilty re; my mother but its a guilt I can live with whereas the guilt over my children I can't. Doesn't stop the whole thing feeling wrong and doesn't stop me worrying that I'll still end up like her.

100 miles is not that far. I would make it a day trip rather than an overnight if I were you. Less potential for issues then. Take her out for lunch - so you are treating her but also out on neutral territory.

Ending up like her [shudder]. Gives me nightmares.

I know what you mean about making the break in your heart. My relationship with my parents has been on a slide for a couple of years now and having a child myself has really caused a complete sea change in my attitude. I can't imagine my mother loving my child for who she is; the first time she does something my mother doesn't like, my mother will judge her really harshly. Also - my mother has a visceral dislike of my mother-in-law (who's really a fairly harmless woman - and recently widowed, so not at her happiest) and I can imagine her bridling and prickling if DD mentions anything about her other grandmother in front of my mother. Not of course that she would deal with this sensibly, like an adult - she'd just find some reason to make DD feel guilty for some other - imagined - slight. In a way, I'm jumping the gun because it hasn't happened yet - but I know what she was like with me, and I see the signs...

I feel guilty because my mother never had enough love when she was growing up and was unable to have the big family she'd hoped for herself. All these years, I've absorbed all the abuse myself - but I'm just not prepared to do that anymore. I'm still shocked, though, at how happy I am, not having any contact with them.

(May be rambling - typing quickly, as on the cusp of going out)

If anyone's still around. What would you do about the picture? I mentioned below that my mother has given dd1 a picture of her (with grandad and my brother whilst in florida where he now lives). She's been told to carry this picture around in case she feels lonely. Should I take it away - sort of loose it. I can't help feeling that the carrying around of this picture is unhealthy. We have pictures of my mother around the house - of the whole family infact. Do you think it would do more harm taking the picture away rather than just ignoring it or even re-inforcing how much everyone loves her whenever we see it. What's everyone's view on the blasted picture?

Redz.. I know exactly what you mean about the degree of relief felt at finally severing a harmful relationship. Saying that I still see her once a week.... And yes my daughters are basically "discouraged" from mentioning my dh's parents who are gorgeous.

Hmmm Definitely day trips! good point. Can use the fact that dd2 is very allergic to dogs although that might backfire and end up with her resenting dd2 for preventing her from seeing my eldest dd.