Would you ban your mother from seeing your kids if she was screwing them up?

[Wills]

The only phrase that has ever felt right about my mother is that she is a very needy person. Her mother physically and mentally (NOT sexually) abused my mother as a child. This has left my mother extremely needy of love. I have spent too many years jumping through the complex hoops my mother sets before me for me to prove to her that I love her and have finally "cut" the apron strings and am living my life and raising my kids how I want. My mother would call us estranged, I'd call our relationship as approaching normal for the first ever time. The problem is my kids. I have two girls, 5 and 2.5 and another child on the way. So far she's seen them at least once a week. They adore her, she's incredibly fun to be with. Naturally she adores them but its because they love her. Its not a normal relationship. She can't seem to see them without lavishing presents on them, its as though she's buying their love. She's also incredibly jealous of them loving anyone else. Up until now I've been able to tell myself that since they only see her once a week that this is ok, that I can counter anything she says or does. Now I'm not so sure. Its my 5 year old, (her favourite - she persauded me (told me) to go back to work my dd1 was 3 months so that "I could have a career without worrying as she'd look after my children for me" - I stopped this when I had my second something she is still furious about). My 5 year old is coming home with strange phrases and is distinctly unsettled when she gets back. Things like "If nobody else loves me Nanna will always love me". Or (whilst clutching a picture of my mother that she'd give my 5 year old) "Nanna's told me to keep this picture close just in case I feel lonely". My dd1 is not lonely. She is very popular at school, have loads of friends with children, and a large family on both sides all of whom regularly visit and adore our children (we're the only ones with kids so far). Do I stop this now. I don't think it will work to tell my mum to stop. She doesn't know she's doing it.

Haven't read the rest of this thread, but if it was me I'd reduce visits and ALWAYS go with them - that way you can address any weirdness or talk to them about it afterwards.

Its the agony of trying to find a level that means I've been reasonable. Its dd1's birthday next Thursday and her party on the following saturday. "d"m wants to come to both. I don't want her there on the thursday after school. She takes over and demands dd1's attention and no one else gets a look in. i.e. despite not being able to walk well if I walked into the living room with dd1's birthday cake she'd be there taking it out of my hands. However I was thinking of letting her come to the children's party (but I don't really want to iyswim). Dh has just said what harm would it do to let her come round on Anna's birthday. But then its not him whose having to bloody well put up with my mother its me. God but I can't wait to move. Do you think 100 miles is enough. Maybe we should consider Australia!

I moved to Exeter.... and my mother sold her house in Stoke, bought one in Teignmouth (20-ish miles away from us) and moved here!!! Australia sounds very attractive!

I know what you mean about the birthdays. I was looking through photos of ds1's 3rd birthday last night, and while opening his cards/presents he was sitting in HER lap, with her arms wrapped around his waist, with me leaning over at an uncomfortable angle trying to help him open things!!! Never again.

As to trying to be reasonable - don't worry too much about it, Wills!! She certainly isn't worried about being fair to you. Just decide what's comfortable for you and best for your kids, and then stick by it. That's what I'm trying to do (although it isn't easy).

Oh the nightmare of trying to be reasonable with someone who is not amenable to reason.

Your MIL's advice to talk to her is well-meaning, but it's very difficult to make other, normal people from normal families understand how very impossible it is to be reasonable with someone who is utterly beyond the bounds of reason. You can't be.

My mother was always loopy. I wasn't fat as a pre-teen but not skinny, and she used to follow me around calling me fat, unlocking the bathroom door when I was in there to try and catch me with no clothes on so she could torment me about how huge and ugly I was. She refused to buy me a bra until I was 13 (and as I'd developed nicely at 10 this was a little mortifying) then used to taunt me saying my chest was too big and if I stopped eating completely maybe they'd shrink.

This followed me all through teenage years, and probably didn't help with depression and suchlike.

Not one person in our rather small family is talking to her now (my sister stopped when she called my neice a 'horrid bitch' - she was 9) and my nan - her mother - spends time with my aunt, who my mother refuses to see. So I feel obliged to see her, as I can't bear to think of her getting very old and dying alone.

She's made stupid choices in her life, marrying random men for money, then wasting it all. She's in a lot of debt.

She 'says' she'd like to see ds more but I don't believe it. She sees him maybe 4 times a year (we live about 80 miles away, maybe a bit more) which in my eyes is too much, but I feel too guilty to make it any less. However, if I have a dd in the future, I will not let her within 500 metres of her.

So its dds she has problems with?

God - mothers!

Have just read your thread. Your mum sounds very similar to mine.
Until 6 months ago we lived 200 miles away and since I thought that the problems I had with my mother must by oversensitivity on my part I made every effort to make sure my DD (now 3) spent as much time with her and my stepdad as possible. I thought all the complaining about infrequent visits due to the distance was understandable if annoying.
We moved back home to within 20 mins drive of my mum with a view to her taking over childcare when I go back to work - I am now 8 months pregnant.
In this time I have realised that it isn't my problem. She is very similar to how you describe your mum. She was really a very bad parent to myself and my 2 younger sisters and I can't believe that I have allowed myself to be so stupid as to allow her to be such a big part of my DD's life.
I would much rather pay for childcare and let her have a weekly visit but my husband and sister say that that would be "cutting off my nose to spite my face."

If she's like my mum then no you're not. Paid childcare does what its told. My mother never did. A good example (and unfortunately I have other similar ones) was the time when dd1 was 2.5 and she phoned me at work (I work in the city) to tell me that she was angry with dd1. Why said I? "Because she's run off, so I'm sitting here until she decides to return." Umm where are you mum? "I'm in Gallaria shopping center". Honestly I felt the walls around me close in.

Or how about. I have a severe nut allergy to brazil nuts but that doesn't seem to persaude her to check the ingrediants on food. Because of my allergy I'd rather my kids didn't have nuts until they're at least 5 (i.e. able to tell me about itchy mouths etc). So was rather shocked to find a packet of m&ms in dd1's pocket. Mum didn't do it on purpose but she doesn't both to think.

Also Mum never took them to meet other kids. dd1 had no social life until I insisted on 3 mornings a week in a nursery (although I was accused of turning my child into a latch key kid and that she was going to report me to social services for abandoning my child).

Best stop now. Could do this all evening.

I wouldn't worry about being reasonable either - your family is more important. My grandma was always overpossessive of my mum, and when my mum and dad talked to her and asked her not to be like that anymore she didn't talk to them for a year. But after that she did, and was much more reasonable. Not saying that would happen though, but I just think you need to put your family first. 100 miles might not be enough

"I would much rather pay for childcare and let her have a weekly visit but my husband and sister say that that would be 'cutting off my nose to spite my face.'"

And just think how much therapy costs!

lunavix: your mother sounds horrendous. It's the kind of behaviour that thrusts you into an eating disorder. I find it incredible that women can display sexual jealousy towards their daughters. My mother plainly hated it when I was in my teens and was slimmer than she was. When I put on some weight later and took a bigger size than her (which isn't surprising anyway, since I'm a bigger build), she was gloating. I can remember her outrage at my innocently running into a room where my father was when I was 11 or so, wearing only a nightshirt: you'd have thought I'd offered sexual favours. Even now she seems to think that I should be ashamed of and hide my quite substantial chest - like it's something disgusting. She used to go off on one if my father and I went somewhere together (even if it was just B&Q!) and accuse us of wanting to be thought a couple. How disgusting is that??

Yes - I HAVE banned my mother from seeing my children, she is screwed up and I am scared of them getting to knw her cos she is one VERY scary lady!!!!

Hope you can sort this out Wills - what a stress. Put yourself & family first.

My mum refuses to talk to me & my sister. She sends gifts for my dds but hasn't even acknowledged that I've a ds now! Long story plus difficult childhood. Have decided to break all contact with her - will leave it to her to contact me. Sad for her as she had the chance to be a super gran but her horrid character got in the way.

Hi,

Last year I moved to live in Japan with my Japanese husband and now I am pregnant with our first baby. I have realised pretty recently that my mother was psychologically and physically abusive while I was growing up. I had never realised before because I just accepted it. But she turned me into a nervous wreck over my wedding. She did come to the ceremony but then stormed off in a huff and didnt come to the reception. (DHs family had flown from Japan) I realised then that it wasnt normal behaviour for a MUm and that shes just a very manipulative, controlling person. I have broken contact with her since then and have been much happier and managed to start building my life here.
Now Im having a child, I know Ill have to deal with her again. She would try all the tricks to get close to them, basically in order to make me miserable rather than because she wanted any real contact with the kids (like a crazy ex-husband).
I have decided to pretend that everything is peachy with my Mum to my future kids. I have an allright relationship with MIL here. I dont want my kids to think that falling out with your Mum is normal (mind you, they arent going to have an abusive mum). Ill visit home probably once a year after having the baby, but just meet her briefly and in a neutral place like a cafe (shes really an intimidating woman- actually still scares me). If she ever gets too crazy, I can always limit holidays home, using the excuse of money or whatever. Id play fair and pretend our relationship is normal and see how much I could bear. BUt if it really got so bad that it was upsetting me a lot, Id probably just have to explain something to them about my relationship with her.
Sorry not much help, but at least you know you are really not alone. I just hope I have learned from her mistakes, and (god forbid) never repeat them.

You're lucky there's several thousand miles between you! I'd have thought that sooner or later your child(ren) will pick up on undercurrents though. I certainly did in my parents relationships with my (various) grandparents.