Would you ban your mother from seeing your kids if she was screwing them up?

[Wills]

The only phrase that has ever felt right about my mother is that she is a very needy person. Her mother physically and mentally (NOT sexually) abused my mother as a child. This has left my mother extremely needy of love. I have spent too many years jumping through the complex hoops my mother sets before me for me to prove to her that I love her and have finally "cut" the apron strings and am living my life and raising my kids how I want. My mother would call us estranged, I'd call our relationship as approaching normal for the first ever time. The problem is my kids. I have two girls, 5 and 2.5 and another child on the way. So far she's seen them at least once a week. They adore her, she's incredibly fun to be with. Naturally she adores them but its because they love her. Its not a normal relationship. She can't seem to see them without lavishing presents on them, its as though she's buying their love. She's also incredibly jealous of them loving anyone else. Up until now I've been able to tell myself that since they only see her once a week that this is ok, that I can counter anything she says or does. Now I'm not so sure. Its my 5 year old, (her favourite - she persauded me (told me) to go back to work my dd1 was 3 months so that "I could have a career without worrying as she'd look after my children for me" - I stopped this when I had my second something she is still furious about). My 5 year old is coming home with strange phrases and is distinctly unsettled when she gets back. Things like "If nobody else loves me Nanna will always love me". Or (whilst clutching a picture of my mother that she'd give my 5 year old) "Nanna's told me to keep this picture close just in case I feel lonely". My dd1 is not lonely. She is very popular at school, have loads of friends with children, and a large family on both sides all of whom regularly visit and adore our children (we're the only ones with kids so far). Do I stop this now. I don't think it will work to tell my mum to stop. She doesn't know she's doing it.

I'd put it in a frame and then put it alongside other family pictures so it ceases to be "special" IYKWIM.

Then I'd lose it in about 6 months time .

Hmm picture is a tricky one. Could you perhaps use it to make a collage of pictures of the extended family and friends, put it in a clip frame and stick it in your DD's bedroom and tell her that she is a lucky little girl because so many people love her so much.

Agree with flashingnose. And if DD objects, suggests a more suitable thing to stop her being lonely, like her teddy.

Superb! Never thought of that solution. Like it! Will do it this evening. Many thanks

Or if she insists on having it in her room, do as Bozza says. I think the key is to have it along with other family pictures especially of DH's parents by the sound of it.

My ex MIL is patently bonkers... a fundamentalist christian with extremely forthright views...
I'm afraid I do undermine her subtlely (sp?) in front of my dd, but don't feel guilty about it. Rather I feel that I am giving my dd the tools she needs to learn how to deal with odd relatives!
I try and keep contact to a minimum (eg once a month) bu luckily she doesn't push for more.

agree with flashingnose. The thing is to play down it's importance. Taking it away or destroying it would make a big thing out of it. Just casually putting it alongside pictures of other important people in your DD's life is the way to go.

Oh, jesus, we could be sisters! My mother is the same - jealous of my mil and her relationship with our dd, with me, etc. Everything bothers her, and she always wants to be number 1. She's mentioned numerous times that I must love my mil more, that I'm gonna be teaching my dd to love her more and so on. She also believes in smacking and has made no secret of the way she feels - "if (our dd) was naughty or disobeyed me in any way, she'd get a good smack". The worst one was her view of gay men - my best friend is gay and she suddenly developed a phobia about him coming over saying things like "they're filthy, your dd should be taught that that's not normal" and stuff like that. I couldn't stand it anymore and decided it was best if we didn't speak anymore. She doesn't respect our wishes to raise our kids the way we see fit, and according to the times we live in. Luckily, we live in separate countries now so that's a lot easier to maintain. I haven't seen my parents for about year and a half and don't intend to until they start respecting me, my dh and our way of parenting. They're entitled to their opinion, but we're the ones deciding on our dd's upbringing. I'm 29 btw and don't want to be controlled by my parents. You need to step up and tell her how you and your dh feel. Unless you don't want to risk your relationship.

Blimey, your mother is still mad then wills? Will read the thread now and see if I can add anything.

My mum has already taken over control of my brother's children. She used to be so strict and authoritarian, I was scared stiff of her as a teenager, and she never gave us any attention at all. But with his kids, she's embarrasing. She pretends to know everything teenagers are into, they wear clothes that are quite frankly, hooker outfits, and she asks them for clothes tips, she pretends to be just one of them which is cringy! But she does this to gain their trust, which she then abuses. She uses things they tell her to get at their parents, she encourages them to come to her instead of their parents, etc, etc. She's a witch.

I hardly ever have anything to do with her, but she has started sending letters to dd and I know she'll try to get at my children now, to make out that she's the nice one. But atm I'm just supervising. I don't want to ban her from contacting them or that will just blow up in my face I'm sure, instead I just hope that the way I'm bringing them up will ensure that they have the confidence and wisdom to see through her.

Agree that moving is great and that pic should go in a frame. x

Oh Wills this sounds awful for you. I think that it really does sound like you dm is filling your dd's head with allsorts of stuff she shouldn't be.

It's very sad, I feel really sorry for your mum but can understand how frustrating it must be.

Has it affected you as an adult too do you think? You don't mention it in your OP. You just have to put your children first don't you as it doesn't sound like you mum did this with you.

Can I also say you are not alone, dh's mum is totally bonkers which is why she can never have sole access to my ds would be too frightened in case she hurt him to get at me, but I don't get the guilt that you must have.

Wills - my mother gave dd a picture of her receiving a prize from the local paper of Mum of the Year (nominated by someone OUTSIDE the family). I have left it somewhere and it will not be seen in this house!

Mrs Wood: "Oh, jesus, we could be sisters!"
I thought that when I read the initial post!

My DD's godfather is gay and (if I were speaking to my mother and she knew) she'd have something to say about that. I used to share a house with a gay man and the worry was that I would 'catch something'. Also - my parents have a tendency to use racial epithets like (this is probably not allowed on this site, so I'll asterisk) 'ng ng'. I was talking about this to one of my best friends, who's an Afro-Caribbean man, and he wet himself laughing imagining the scenario when in years to come I get called up the school...

If your parents can't respect your wishes, what can you do...

Wills, in answer to your original question, yes I would stop if I felt they were being screwed up. No contest.

Are you moving soon? Until you move I would make sure the visits are with you present and then obviously when you move I'd try to establish a pattern of 'birthdays and Christmas' only!

It's horrible to think of their healthy minds being fed with the rubbish she is putting in there; be strong!

Rhubarb: are your brother's children not getting to an age where they will be able to see through her?

Rhubarb !

Oh God all those other replies that I missed. I'm soooo sorry. Just had a crap weekend. My "d"m has now not seen my girls for 2 weeks now and has started phoning them every day. She had wanted to come over on Saturday but my inlaws (who luckily I'm very close to were here - first visit in 5 weeks - they live over an hours drive away). I knew my dd1 was disappointed not see her nana but nothing more as Granny was there instead. I ended up talking to my mum on the phone (something I try to avoid). Nothing particular was said but I wouldn't be drawn on a date for when she could next see the kids. She burst into tears. I feel like shit. I keep wondering if I'm blowing this out of proportion? My dds adore being with their Nana but my 5 year old is now so insecure. She spent Sunday (the phone call was staturday evening) asking if I loved her. Are most 5 year olds checking whether their parents love them? The cynical part of me feels that the tears are because we're moving house. I strongly suspect this is going to get worse until such time that we move. We used to rent a cottage 5 mins walk from her house and she had major major upset when we moved a whole 10 mins drive away. I mean serious tears and dramas etc.

Meggmoo you asked had she affected me. Its funny I think most people start to understand their parents when they have children. I'm the opposite. As my children grow so I'm get more and more baffled by how I was raised.

Mrs Woods, Rhubarb, Redz - its wonderful to know that I'm not alone in this. None of my friends have weird mothers or even mils.

On a brighter note the collage is going well (takes a lot of time to construct!) but its very sad to hear my dd1 going, so they ALL love me do they? I've scratched the top and am now realising just how much damage has been done underneath and I really hurt for my dd1.

Mil thinks i should talk to dm, explain the situation, ask her to stop. But where to start. How do get someone to stop this kind of behaviour when they can't even understand that yes you do love your kids more than you love them?

Hi Wills,

I've only just read your thread, but wanted to add my support for what you are doing and my sympathy for what you are going through. I have a mad, hyperneedy, manipulative mother too (she's having one of her major meltdowns at the moment, precipitated by me telling her we needed to reduce contact because of ds1 starting nursery!) and I understand how awful it is to have your children used as pawns. My boys adore her and are used to seeing her twice a week, and I have recently stopped all contact with her. It's the hardest thing I've ever done. But, like you, when I think about the future and the fact that her behaviour isn't realistically going to change, I feel I have to take control now. I tell myself that if my mother really loved her grandchildren as much as she says she does, she would stop using them as weapons, stop undermining their view of their mother and be brave enough to get the help she needs to change her toxic behaviour.

Keep strong, you are doing the right thing for your children. It's so hard when you have grown up with her neediness and are programmed to jump whenever she pushes your buttons.

You're spot on with the programmed bit. God but its good to have others. It feels so wrong to be doing what I'm doing. I've spent my whole life doing what she wants. My stepfather is once again hinting that my mum is dying. She never says these things herself, others always pass the message on i.e. her husband and her best friend. About 2 years ago I suddenly had the relvelation that I was doing anything/everything she wanted because basically I was waiting to live my life AFTER she died. Then tracking back I discovered that I had a recorded history of at least 10 years worth of her dying swan acts. Its probably been lifelong given that for most of my childhood/teens I was petrified of arguing with her incase she died and never forgave me. ARRRRGGGHHH. One day of course she will be right!

This is really eerie! I too have had my stepfather telling me that my mother is in hospital, that it is "touch and go" (it's all hogwash)... I feel awful too, my whole childhood was based on tiptoeing around her moods and trying to keep her happy. I'm quite sure I don't want to do it any more, nor do want my children to have to learn that particular craft:), but it is HARD. It's easy for her to make you feel terrible when you have got her "only grandchildren". My mother has alienated everyone else in her life really (apart from my stepdad, sho is a milksop) so I do feel as though I am leaving her with nothing. But I keep telling myself: She is doing this. It's HER behaviour that has precipitated this, not mine. I really feel for you, Wills. It's a horrendous thing to be going through - but it's the right thing, I'm sure of it!

it is HER not you.

Your mums should be bloody grateful to have lovely dds like you and basically stop trying to manipulate the hell out of you.

It isn't fair and you are both doing absolutely the right thing x Enid

I know Enid. Wish I could just hate her cos anger would be sooo much easier to handle. God Greensleeves are we hidden sisters. My mum had a major spinal operation last year. Told us all about how she'd be in hospital for a couple of days and (in a very breathless voice) would it be possible for the grandchildren to visit... It was quite a shock when my stepfather phoned on the same day to say she was back home. She'd had a spinal tap. (She has arthritus which is made worse by all the stress her children put her through and has absoltuely nothing whatsoever to do with the 9 stone ADDITIONAL weight she carrying or the complete and utter lack of excersise). A friend of mine has had a spinal tap and 2 epidurals - she found the epidurals more painful. Really put it in perspective AARRRGGGHHHHHH.

God Enid you sound sooo calm. I read that your kids met with your mum a few weeks back - how did it go?

OMG my mother also has chronic osteoarthritis "I have the back of a 75 year old woman".... and rides around on a scooter with a pair of sparkly bloody fairy wings stuck on the back of it.

And I had a phone call last Friday saying "I'm going back into hospital and I would like to see boys please - bring them over tomorrow". The crying and mad histrionics hadn't worked, so she tried just ordering me instead!

I'm sure we must be the same person!