Divorce and separation: looking for MNer input

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello,

We at MNHQ are currently brainstorming about a few things, and (bearing in mind how we hit the right note last time ) we'd very much appreciate some MNer input to guide our thinking.

We are looking into the possibility of providing some content around relationship breakdown (divorce/separation, mediation, maintenance, parenting after a separation), and we'd love to know what sorts of things you think would be helpful.

This could be anything from comprehensive directories of help that's already out there, to online mediation services, and everything and anything in between: please just let us know what, in an ideal world, you would like to see Mumsnet (or anyone else, including the government) providing that would make the separation process as stress-free as possible for families.

We're mostly looking at things that could be done online, but we're all ears if you have other ideas too. And if there are organisations and services that you think are particularly good, do please give them a namecheck.

We may also start trialling a few ideas over the next few months in order to get your input on those, so watch this space.

Thanks,
MNHQ

This might sound really silly but I could really have done with a basic list of "What you will need to start again" - almost like a hospital bag list. Just a very basic list of all the things you need in a house with children - everything from kitchen scales to coathangers. In the traumatic days of moving out, I couldn't think straight at all. Also a list of 'You will need to change your address on' or 'Contact these people e.g. Child Benefits'.

There are no good books about Separation imo - I bought several but they were all very "rigid" and not very practical.

the "which" guide helps to make your time with your solicitor valuable...i covered a huge amount in my first free session because I had done the paperwork beforehand.

Citizens Advice Bureau. Lots of things online there and face to face too. Good practical, experienced advice from everything to maintenance, benefits (they will even chase those for you if you need them to), advice on debt, housing, legal. Brilliant resource.

Surestart. I have not used them in this way, but I do think they would be a good resource if asked. The staff are experienced and accessible. They also have lots of literature on separation etc, plus access to parenting courses. Also knowledgeable about benefits etc.

www.turn2us.org.uk/benefits_search.aspx benefits calculator

I would definitely have appreciated (in fact, prob still would) someone explaining the different styles of divorce. eg, what is a family agreement? Why is mediation a good idea? What is a 'collaborative' divorce and how do you go about getting one? Why is it sometimes good to hold back from solicitors letters to keep communication amicable (and when to draw clear boundaries instead), what will scupper your right to legal aid (for example if you want to name the OW in an adultery divorce, legal aid probably won't allow you to due to the added cost and perceived irrelevance of doing so).

The best advice I could give from experience is that I used a parenting plan I downloaded off the internet to shape my fist conversation with STBXH after throwing him out (when I discovered OW). This covered some essentials such as where the children and I would live, what his initial contact with them would be, financial questions (who would cover the mortgage and for how long? Would the house go on the market? would he pay maintenance, how much and when?). This was all done before anyone spoke to a solicitor which gave us a written agreement on the most important and upsetting issues from day one. Having a template made the conversation possible to get through, when I wouldn't have known how to start on my own. I used this one and we now update it every few months or so, or when circumstances change.

Me and a friend were talking about this; both going through divorce with different lawyers;

there needs to be a simple A4 sheet- with step by step from start to finish of the divorce process. And what each 'thing' means

eg. consent order- is to arrange financial matters and is actually seperate to divorce process

I have absolutely no desire to understand the divorce process-I am not interested and it is too emotional and upsetting when you are going through it, to start learning cold hard legal terms and processes. I was under the impression, my solicitor would just guide me through it and I would supply signatures where necessary-unfortunately that is not possible.

But it needs to be simple and short

my experience of mediation was absolutely horrendous- it needs to be made very clear that mediation with an abusive partner is NOT A GOOD IDEA

Solicitors should strongly advise against it

I found myself defending myself against him and the mediator

Also mediator didnt share any information with solicitor!!!

It was a complete and very painful and stressful waste of time

don't know if it is still around, or available here, but my children found PACT helpful

(not that have actually got round to getting divorced yet almost two decades later)

agree with all of the above especially the step by step guide that one poster mentioned.

For example, it could start with "so you've decided your marriage is over, what is your next step" and then,depending on your housing circumstances it could give you all the options,

I agree about the need for more explanations about "abusive men". I think women need to recognise that a lot of men are manipulative / bullying / controlling / angry and that actually, that needs a different approach. It's hard when you've been ground down for years and so many women say "But he never hit me" and don't recognise that the power dynamic that is inherent in a marital relationship can be very easily abused by a man who is not nice.

get on a group course/workshop/therapy on dealing with divorce/separation like www.drw.or.uk or in london www.divorcesupportgroup.co.uk/about-us/

also some gp practices will refer for separation counselling on NHS

like www.sandbachgps.nhs.uk/What_We_Do/NHS_Community_Services/counselling?site_locale=en

or use Relate for separation counselling

sori should be www.drw.org.uk/

I THIRD the no mediation if he is abusive. And a checklist that maybe solicitors could run through which will flag up whether he has been abusive, but the client doesnt recognise it, with a referral on to something like the Freedom Programme (which I think can be done online)

also to note that any woman who seems to be doing all the compromising and agreeing to what he is asking in order to 'keep things nice' - they are probably being done over. Perhaps an angle is that divorce is inevitably painful and emotions can get very high, therefore it is best if it is handled by an independant person who is not emotionally involved, and it can be sorted out AS THE LAW determines is fair and equal.

Many men (often the ones who's ex wives are handing it all over to keep things nice) often seem to view divorce as men being absolutely shafted by gold digging women. They dont seem to recognise that supporting their children comes into it - or the sacrifices (often financial and in terms of their career) that many many women make to allow their husband to have the benefit of having a family and nice home, and to progress in his career. They object to having to compensate for this. So getting independant and legal back up for what you are entitled to is paramount or the wife and kids get stuffed, and often nice verbal agreements come to nothing or can be used for ransom at a later date.

LHA calculator to check how much help people can get towards their rent.

I've said on a few threads before, do not be afraid of consulting a solicitor, CAB, Women's Aid etc. Information is strength. It does not commit you to taking any steps that you do not want to take. It just tells you what is likely to happen if you do. For example, too many women post on here saying they can't leave their partners because they've been told they have to leave the kids behind. In the UK at least, this is not true and they do need to know that.

When I split up from my ex the thing I was looking for and couldn't find anywhere was how to arrange parenting/contact in a non-conflict situation. Everything I found seemed to be geared at warring parents (court cases, rights, even mediation). We weren't warring, and wanted to get things right, but felt like we were stumbling in the dark.

Constantly mentioned was "in the best interests of the child" but I couldn't find anything to tell me what this was in terms of patterns of contact. What sort of proportion of their time should they spend at each home? What lenghts of time would work? When and where to do handovers? How to manage possessions at each home? Some really practical guidance and ideas would have been great - and written for parents who want to work out a new style of parenting, not at those who are still fighting each other.

I think making people aware before they have children what happens if you separate.
And the difference to whether you're married or not, or a sahp or wohm parent.

I think most men and women don't realise what implications all these decisions make.

I think making people aware before they have children what happens if you separate

how on earth would you do this? hand out leaflets with the marriage certificates? or with the NI cards?

If you like.

Make people more aware of how the law works.
Seeing as how it comes as a shock to a lot of people, and having a child is quite a big decision, and a lot of relationships don't last I think letting people know what is likely to happen a fair idea.

Of course nobody expects their relationship to be one of those that goes down the Swanee, so they wouldn't pay much attention at the time. But I suppose later on they may remember that information existed and know where to look for help.

I would agree with a list of things that need to be done and places to find help, also what your rights are to things like housing etc and if you can change the locks or not seems to come up quite often

I think as well as someone said earlier a guide on shared parenting would be helpful. I think that there are still a lot of people who believe things which are not true, as an example that mothers have 'custody' and hold all the rights to the child, in fact on another forum right now there is a situation where a woman has found out that her DH has been cheating and she has moved to her parents house with her daughter and is refusing her DH access to the child as he has behaved so badly, a lot of people have backed her up saying she has every right to withhold access as a punishment whereas in fact if things went to court that could reflect very badly on her. Obviously there are other situations and of course abusive situations are excluded, but I think that in some cases things might not get so heated and get to court if it was clearer on each parents rights and responsibilitys from the start

Direct.gov.uk has lots of advice including about separating finances, finding a solicitor to help you, a link to the legal aid calculator and much more.

Gingerbread, the single parents organisation, has some useful leaflets, including What to do when a relationship ends:
www.gingerbread.org.uk/factsheet/22/Action-to-take-when-a-relationship-ends

I'd also mention that if things are easy to agree, don't pay for solicitors, you can get the papers from a court & do it all yourself for a few hundred.

I would have appreciated emotional guidance. My separation was amicable and I wanted it, but I couldn't believe the pain would ever stop or that amicable outcomes are possible and children thrive in that circumstance. Being slowly and carefully reassured helped me.