Can I just have a rant about making friends, upset and low.

[melsy]

Hi all who have seen me around here for the last few weeks. I just need to let of some steam. As u may know I have posted many messages about one problemn after another - so feel like a HEAD CASE , I need to come with a WARNING "strange moany winge bag, AVOID".

This may take a while , so here we go ; I gave up a suit booted job last yr(tooo stressfull made me depressed), went freelance from home to add FULLFILLMENT to my life - but it didnt. So now have my amazing 11 week old DD who SHOULD add fulfillment but it doesnt just quite seem to fill the hole & now have PND !!!!. I have tried since pregnancy to make new friends ,as old friend is single and lives in Paris & just doesnt understand being married with kid & the other friend lives in Sheffield,(I am in London)and typically the one new friend I have made who I get on with really really well is also moving far away!!!!. My problem is this; I have always found it hard to sustain / cultivate good friendships. I was badly bullied (mentally & physically)from 5 yrs old up till late teens and moved to several schools because of this, which manifested into agraphobia in my late 20's , so making arrangments , doing lots of stuff is quite anxiety inducing even now all these yrs later. Now I have no work to escape too , so making friends and stuff to do every week is far more important. I made some new friends about 5 months ago at about 26 weeks pg and I thought we had a nice little grp , but over the last few weeks little cliques have been forming and I as per usual have not been included in some of the arrangments, unless I happen to text and ask what they r up too and then they say " oh I was having blah blah over" or "oh why dont u come" , like they feel guilty suddenly because I have appeared. Or I dont get a phone call for weeks at a time only to then speak and find out they have been soooooo BUSY with this one or that one. So I end up thinking, so whats wrong with me that I couldnt have been included. Any way I have just realised I sound v immature and its like I am back at school all over again; I AM 31 FOR GODS SAKE !!!!

I am thoroughly FED UP, its not so much feeling lonely,as DH is on garden leave until Jan 19th. Its just so upsetting and frustrating and makes u feel like there is something wrong with u. I have alot to give - funny /genorous/ caring / artistic/ cultured/ intelligent. Sound like an advert now to myself!!!!

I know some of u r going to think just get a hold of yourself, but this a repeated thing through my life and I know it is common but when u bare the brunt of it its difficult. I also dont want to rely on Parents/siblings/ husband for my life , as they may not always be there and I need to be independant, but every time my husband says to join a mummy grp , say baby massage for eg I just panick.
I also feel like on merry go round with baby routine as not getting enough sleep because of pills for PND so dont get out enough because exhausted and have to ;feed, clean bum ,make bottles, feed, clean bum etc etc. I soooo need a day to myself with NO ONE , so I can calm down , but dont know what to do . I love masssage spa's , but sooo expensive. Now I just feel guilty because there is a voice in my head saying , "well what did u expect with a baby". ok now I am gonna cry. BIG BIG SIGH.
Sorrreee there seem to be several issues in one here, apologies for fractured account.

Melsy, I was going to suggest getting out and sbout with your DD, but reading your post again to see that you have tried that.
Where abouts do you live?
If you want a private chat send me an email via the link at the top of the page.
Keep yuor chin up and join us in the pub.

Melsy, you're obviously having a really tough time at the moment. I remember feeling a bit like this when dd was about that age (without the pnd as it goes) - exhausted, friendless, overwhelmed - and the business with your new group of friends must intensify that.

So I'm not sure I have any advice really. Some of what you are feeling is probably down to PND, and should be helped with the pills. Some of it is normal oh-my-god-what-have-I-done baby paranioia (not everyone gets it, but I think most do) and it will get better!

As for meeting new people: maybe your dh is right? Remember the good thing about mum groups as opposed to other groups is that you always have something to talk about in your kids. And I think you're right about having a day to yourself, or even an afternoon. Have a look at your local tech college - they usually have beauty/massage parlours for the trainees which are very cheap. Or failing that, how about just an afternoon of pampering yourself at home while your dh takes the baby out?

Hope you feel better soon anyway. Don't feel guilty!

Oh ya know how that feels were abouts are you? As Janhr said if you want a private chat.

I gave up my job 1yr ago and had to go out and practically beg for new friends as all my work friends were single and i was letting femisim down by staying at home and others live in Reading. It does get better, Email me xxxhang in there xxxx

Just a big hug Melsy (((((()))))) I know you'll get loads of fab advice here.

I remember being desperately lonely and bored at around that time, and couldn't believe this is what I had wanted so badly.

One thing I can say is that it does get better. Now that ds is mobile and into playing games life is much more fun (oh, and it really helped me to go back to work too). I reckon at about 6 months was the turning point (sorry, that's still quite a way away, but at least it will eventually come.

What about doing a bit of work or looking for ways to do some professional development. I think I looked at job ads and then sorted out my cv, for the one purpose of making me feel good about myself!

Melsy, so sorry to hear that things aren't looking up yet. When are you taking your ADs? Someone suggested to me that if they keep me up at night, I should take them in the morning.

Hope things get better for you soon. I'd say that taking a day for yourself, even not at a fancy spa, is a priority. One day to have no responsibilities or commitments, really.

melsy, I may have this wrong but it sounds a bit like you are expecting your friends to make all the arrangements and suggestions for meeting up. saying "I don't get a phone call for weeks at a time" - well why don't you phone them during that time, they may also be thinking "Melsy hasn't phoned us, maybe she isn't interested". It sounds like when you do phone or text then they are happy to see you and include you, which is great. I don't know if anyone else is the same as me, but my social arrangements are pretty ad hoc. I have some friends who are great at phoning and organising things, and many more who I know I'll never see unless I call them and arrange something, because they are hopeless at arranging anything themselves and only see people when others sort it out. I don't read anything into any of that. If people really don't want to see you then they make excuses, or cancel arrangements repeatedly or whatever, and you rreally get to know.
So I think you should be a bit more confident about your friendships (you sound like you had a lot of stresses growing up which have caused you to be less confident, but remember that new friends don't know about that and will think you are as confident as you project yourself to be), and organise things with people you want to see. And remember that people really like being asked to do things and to be sought out, so take charge of your social life a bit.
Good luck!

Princesspeahead, I know it helps if I make some arrangements and instigate, but I have been. As some of these girls have already been to my house. But after that I dont get asked back to there's or even get a call or they say they are busy all the time.But its not just happening to one group I am in touch with but TWO. So I am getting a bit paranoid and I find it very hard to do anyway because of anxiety and fears of rebuff.

Melsy,

Re those friends that you recently made - who you think are forming little exclusive cliques...perhaps you are being a wee bit paranoid / reading too much into things? I'm not saying this to be critical - its just something I tend to do myself, and I have to give myself a little talking to and tell myself not to be daft!

Given your history (bullying as a child) you might, very understandably, be more prone to assuming you are being 'left out', when the reality is not like that

Hard is it might be - why not take the initiative? Why don't you initiate and suggest social things to do? (perhaps you have already done so).

I have a friend who is very popular in many respects - she is far from perfect however. What she seems to do well however is be very outgoing and gregarious. She is forever taking the initiative and ringing people up and suggesting that they come to lunch, join her and her toddler at swimming etc, etc. I tend not to do this - I try and guardedly work out whether people like me or not, and make a mental tally of whether it is someone's 'turn' to ring me / suggest something social...might you be doing this too ? and might it be inhibiting you socially?

I am sure that my social butterfly friend doesn't analyse in quite the same way...she just brazenly assumes that everybody will like her (and most do)and so she super confidently sets about inviting / initiating social get togethers.... Consequently she has oodles more friends than me.

Its a shame you don't live near Southampton - I'd invite you around in a shot!

I know it is easy to be paranoid, but I think people just ARE busy a lot of the time, especially around this time of the year. I'd just keep with it (if you really like these people, that is)...
just want you to know that there may be other reasons why your life isn't one big social occasion than you thinking everyone hates you

Oooh Melsy - seems that you have already been doing this....

Only other thing I can think of then is that maybe because you aren't comfortable in your own skin, you might come across as nervous and thus people may be less relaxed in your company? Crikey that sounds harsh - but isn't meant to be. Am just trying to work out what's going on here. Don't want to set you tumbling off into depression by a careless remark...however I mention it because perhaps you have some unresolved issues and would benefit from counselling?

Will shut up now in case I am saying all the wrong things and unwittingly causing offence

handlemecarefully ; yes I do do what u say , the bit about tallying up calls etc wrang so true!! excuse the pun!!!. Its my way of determining wether someone is interested in me. But I am feeling especially low in self esteem at the moment. The thing is I have spent a while in therapy getting over all of this and I thought it had been successful treatment. Unfortunately I have gone backwards by about 3-4 yrs because of the PND. I also am still dealing with the a very bad year last yr in a new job which was so AWFUL, I left after a year, due to a BOSS that bullied me. Which was a blow, as had a successfull 4 years before in another company before 70% of business inc me got made redundent , just at my peak in business success/friendship/confidence. I subsequently dont see old work friends, as all single and in to the boozing in bars London scene & also would be shocked/not understanding about me being a mum!!! Was so not the type, but just suddenly really really really wanted a child.

I think I have just put my finger on all of this ;I think I thought having a child, along with the working from home would solve everything that is the lack of friends/unhappiness/disapointment in work life etc But its all just more highlighted.

Believe me I dont come accross as nervous.On the contrary (normally told I am bit aloof / unapproachable). But lately I think I just seem withdrawn may be. But I have sooooo worked on this with therapist and during end of pregnancy felt v comfortable in "my own skin" as u say.

Melsy, I had the same problem and also in the past have been described as aloof (and once brash). I do always seem to end up on the edge of friendship groups but these days I don't mind that so much. Anyway that's kind of besides the point, my question is what area of London do you live in?

North London outskirts Salt. Yes I have also been considered brash sometimes.

Melsy, I do think a lot of your feeling are part of your PND. But I also think PPH is right and you are tending to constantly assume the worst and then basing all your behaviour on those assumptions. Eg because your old work colleagues don't have children (yet) you assume they won't be interested in seeing you, so you don't see them. But the two things don't necessarily follow at all! When I had my ds, yes, I did seek out friends with children, but I also carried on seeing friends without. later today I'm meeting one childless friend for lunch, and then meeting up with two other childless friends for dinner - we still have lots to talk about and they are genuinely interested in my ds and I am genuinely interested in their lives. I went for dinner the other night with another single, childless work colleague and we gossipped about work, people we knew etc etc. Call them up! I bed they'd just love to see your baby.
And it is true, that people who believe people like them just call without a second thought. I've got a friend like that -if she meets someone she vaguely likes, she invites them for coffee instantly. Have you joined an NCT coffee group? That's a postnatal group to put you in touch with women who live near you who have babies the same age.
As PPH also says, people are busy, esp right now, so don't take things too personally. I have felt like you - I think most of us have - but you come through it. It's hard adjusting to a totally new life, and personally I think it's asking a lot of even the most wonderful baby to give you 'fulfillment' - I think that has to come from different parts of your life which may include a mix of acheivement, creativity, work, spirituality, friendships, stuff you do for others and your family. Don't pin your hopes on one thing at a time! Good luck and I hope you feel better soon. I think the advice about taking your ADs in the morning if they are keeping you awake sounds excellent.

Making friends is difficult at the best of times let alone just after a baby.

I tried a mums and tots group when dd was about 4 months... I met some lovely women who I'm still in contact with - unfortunately only ocassionally now as I work full time and they don't, so they meet during the week and spend the weekends with their hard-working husbands!

I must admit I think the finding the right group is the trickiest bit. I went to loads before I settled at one and I found some of them were very cliquey! It's hard walking into a room full of strangers for the first time but worth it in the end.

I'm about 20 minutes up the M1, perhaps we should try and arrange a north London/outskirts meetup??

Melsy I know what you mean about the clique thing. SOmetimes people aren't in really cliquey groups you just think they are.

When I first went to university I took ages to make friends. On the 2nd day there it seemed to me like people had already found their social groups and I wasn't included. Clearly what was actually happening is that someone was talking to someone they had talked to once before and I thought they were best mates and didn't interrupt. I found out from someone who did become a friend later that averyone thought I was stand-offish and aloof and didn't talk to me. In reality I was shy and too scared of interupting people's "friendships!.

Sometimes you have to make the effort. I have a friend who's company I really enjoy but she NEVER calls me at all. I started thinking she didn't want to see me but one time she did mention "that was fun we should do it more often" and so I realised I have to make the effort to benefit from the friendship. Not ideal but everyone's different.

Defo ask the health visitor about mum and baby groups. And be REALLY proactive about suggesting meet ups.

Good luck

message withdrawn

Aloha - I will take Ads in morning now as u have reiterated and see how I go. I have started a mum baby grp at local clinic, but its only 2nd week.Not every one is my cup of tea I dont want to just make friends with people just because of babies & I know are not right for me. So far everyone just packs up and leaves at the end so u dont get a chance to have a long chat. I did mention to one of them at the end that we should do something but she didnt acknowledge?????!!!!!May be I will try again next week. God I just sound like weirdo!! I am not at all BTW!!

Freddicat were we the same person at Uni!!!! I was told I looked sooooo confident that people were scared to approach me. I was also told I looked snooty, when all it was was me withdrawing out of fear & inside I was crying out for friendship / companionship.

Melsy

I can totally identify with your post. Although i wasn't bullied at school I was always perceived to be aloof and intimidating which made it difficult for me to make and maintain friends.

I was also always on the edge of social circles and even as an adult I find this to be true. Luckily for me I am so busy most of the time (I work full time) that it doesn't bother me quite as much as it used to. I know only too well how it feels to be lonely and like one of lifes "outsiders". It seems despite my efforts I am always the last one on anybody's invite list.

Like you I also had PND after DS was born - I tackled this aggressively and went to every mother & baby group I could find. This was a great short term solution, but, I still didn't form any long term friendships.

It is a terrible thing to say but to this day I still don't have one good friend with children - I yearn to have likeminded friends but for the most part have given up on this as an impossible dream.

Anyway didn't want to bring you down. Just to let you know there are others who feel exactly the same way.

If you fancy a chat - contact me through "contact another talker".

All the best
Dejags

Sound like I need to start a lonely mums club, I am not the only one out there. It is good to know I am not alone in this strange dichotomy of wanting friends, but not appearing too be friendly. NO that makes me sound like I am not , which I am. OOOOOOOHHHH just tell me to shut it!!!

I can relate a bit to your situation, Melsy, though I havent got pnd. i've just moved to a new area, and am trying really, really hard to make friends at the mum and tods groups etc, but finding that most of the mums have older kids and are therefore friends with the older kids' mums .They dont have time or room in their lives for a new friend. It reminds me of dating in a lot of ways, another reason to have that sicky feeling of nerves, butterflies and bad memories in my stomach. I agree wholeheartedly with ks, I'm going back to work 2 days per week in january,to give another dimension to things. Maybe it will work for both of us. Good luck, you have my sympathy.

dejags - thank u - I think I will be doing the same and join loads of mum grp things: excercise/massage /swimming????? First I need to get some sleep , so I can concentrate on finding some.