Is he jerking my chain or is it me?

[Moreshoesthanimeldamarcos]

Have name-changed for this.

Basically I've been seeing a guy for 7 months. I'm divorced and he's properly separated (I know this to be true). He is the first bloke I've been out with since my divorce a year ago. He'd been dating for a while and started sooner than me. We're the same age with grown DC's and live about an hour apart.
So. In the beginning it was exciting and romantic and he treated me like I was the best thing ever. Charming, generous and so on, bowled me over in fact, even though I doubted anyone can be THAT great. He fell in love quite quickly, I followed soon after and he's been spending time with me doing all kinds of stuff so I haven't been a booty call in any (obvious) way.

I have lots of RL mates and a good career, I'm independent financially and I love to go out and socialise. He is currently out of work and self employed, it bothers him, and he doesn't have friends because he wanted to be a family man. He comes along with me when I go out but it's most often me who suggests what we do and tbh if I didnt' do that I think we'd spend all weekend indoors.

I feel like I've taken most of the responsibility for the relationship. He never makes plans ahead of time (and i'm talking days, literally) but he always likes to know where I am and what I'm doing. Despite what he says about being committed to me and a future together his calls and texts have simply tailed off in the last few days and I've got to the point where I'm pissed off with making the first move and asking if he's coming down even though he'll probably say yes. I often feel like I'm being controlled even though I can't quite put my finger on how, but I do feel that way. He's also told me he hates arguments which kind of paralyses my wish to assert myself because he isn't actually doing anything WRONG as such.

What do you wise women (and men, if there are any here who aren't watching football) think?

How are you punishing him?

It just seems that your instincts got uncomfortable with everything, and quite rightly it seems.
The more you say about him, the more it seems wrong.

The danger in continuing is that you'll be more and more committed. At some point he will have moved in, then you wonder how to get him out.

Don't feel bad about it.

yeah as Harlot says it can be insidious. You must stop internalising and trying to weigh things up against yourself. Stick with the anger and emotions which are warning signs.

I went out with someone who seemed really nice for a few months but there were a few red flags that I couldn't even articulate. I expressed my feelings for him and his reaction was well OTT saying that "there is something a bit big and scary about a woman declaring love after only a few months" and he dumped me. So i felt crushed and started blaming self for being OTT. Googled him randomly a year later and he was just being arrested for paedophilia--that was the biggest wake up call to trust my instincts I have ever had. not saying this man is a paedo by any stretch of the imagination but INSTINCTS about people are there for a reason.

sorry it would've been more useful to forgo that story and just write
"instincts are very rarely wrong!"

well his DD is lovely and he has lovely Ds's. How can he be so bad?

my ex h was a twunt to me in the end. but he loves our DD.

it has been so lovely for most of the time. but there are huge issues with my being 'accepted' by his DC's and i think this is about whether he is really committed. (of course i only have his word)

if he is really committed, it could be that the fundamental issue is whether i can be with someone who has such a way of being with me with or without the complexities of divorce/separation etc

oh bollocks. how many times must you all say it's wrong on so many levels.

i just wanted to think it all through so i don't make a mistake. but the mistake now would be to carry on. i can't.

thank you.

The reason why he doesn't have friend's is that he doesn't make an effort with people. So he is unlikely to make an effort with you.

It all sounds very intense and inside the moment that must seem intoxicating, especially after what I assume was a long relationship with your DC's dad. I'm sure even his protracted silence can be viewed as: I have so wounded him, he is unable to communicate with me.

But from the outside, I have to say this sounds like bollocks. How did his comments about other women make you feel?

Angry and like i was talking to a man who sees women in a way that i simply don't get.
and you are right realhousewife. he doesn't make the effort and i think i've been taking the responsibility for that. thank you.

LAZY. i've thought he is lazy. about a lot of stuff, including getting a real job.

oh shit he's not for me. he's good for someone but not me.

Ditch

Well, I don't think anyone reading this thread will be queuing up to have a crack at him, OP He sounds awful. You seem to have done a hell of a lot of the work in this relationship. How did it work? He announced he loved you and then sat back and let you 'earn' that?

Honestly matey, you're doing the right thing.

This one was the one to teach what you don't want. In time for the next one

I'm really sorry, I really want stuff to work out for you, but this man is not good for you.

Oh, just get rid

Your radar has pinged him.

You've stepped your toe into the dating water, move on to better and nicer things.

I've just caught up Moreshoes. Hope your head's okay this morning. Have you spoken to the prize jerk chain-jerker yet?

Hello, well my head is a bit banging but i'll survive thank you.

No I haven't heard anything, he is ignoring me. this is what he does when he feels he's been unfairly treated. But i don't think that my exhaustion with trying to please him and not make waves is wrong. ok, with hindsight i probably should have just told him how it was but i was afraid of conflict and yes, i was afraid of confronting him which means that the end is messy and not definitive.

i shan't contact him but he does have stuff here which i can post to him. shit, i should feel relieved but at the moment i think i've been a bit of an idiot. I've lost some self respect but it's too late to put it right.

Hi saff.

He has just texted me and said "no sorry" because i asked him if we should meet today (i've got some stuff here of his)

that was it. nothing else. i started a reply but there doesn't seem much else to say. it's how he ended his very long marriage so i shouldn't be surprised.

i did reply just now. i said ok no prob and good luck with everything.

Post his stuff, delete his number and do not be tempted to contact him again. Think of this as a wound, it needs to heal, if you pick at it then it will never get better.

He's not just ignoring you Moreshoes, he is punishing you. You have asserted yourself and he doesn't like it. Pack up his stuff, post it back to him and go no contact. Absolutely no contact. This guy will have your head in a spin if you let him. Don't give him the opportunity to make you doubt yourself more than you already do. And you shouldn't be feeling you have lost self respect, you should be giving yourself a huge pat on the back fro recognising a relationship which isn't right. You can hold your head up high, if it doesn't hurt too much

Dont be surprised if he comes back and is willing to "give you another chance" No that you have just said "no problems etc" ...

No reason to lose self respect, you did have a bit of a klaxon in your mind regards to him, and you did manage to clock on to what he is like, so well done.

Absolutely hold you head high!!

Don't be his narcissistic supply any longer!

Some tips to quelling the harsh internal voice:

1. disrespect the voice and notice how unreasonable, negative and repetitious it is being
2. remember not to believe the voice by getting different accounts from mumsnet, and from friends and family when you need to
3. wave the silly voice goodbye/tell it to piss off!
4. use humour with the internal voice "come back when you have something decent to say"

be kind to yourself today and get a getting over him action plan in place from tomorrow starting with post office queue tuesday morning.

i have deleted his number and all messages. i shall delete him from Skype too.
yes, it does feel punishing and i didn't do something about this before because i knew that's how he would be.

fwiw i know he won't be back, he bundled his W into the car with her stuff and took her to her D's. she has never been back and he has been pretty unkind about her (oh jesus). i did often wonder if the reason she was so 'moody' was
because he was a fucking nightmare to live with.

that harsh internal voice will do whatever it can to make me blame myself. i will try and make it go away. i don't think it's worth posting the stuff, there was nothing of any 'worth' so i will chuck it today.

He sounds, to me, like a very manipulative man. A few things that worry me; he says that he has no friends because he was a family man, I agree with the other posters who say that this is odd to say the least: family men have friends, being a dad isn't an exclusive club - you often have other friends who have kids too - or you keep your original friends. You don't need loads of close friends, but most healthy adults are able to maintain friendships through school, uni, marriage, kids...so that's a worry.

Secondly, you say that he leaves you to arrange stuff to do, so all the responsibility of the relationship is on you. Well that's bloody convenient for him, isn't? Well done hunni, you've just escaped a man-child. I had one of those. Men like this get a real kick out of having a fiesty attractive popular woman fussing over them. They get all the fun, you get all the running around pleasing them. Their over-sized egos love this. OF COURSE HE CAN ARRANGE THINGS TO DO. He just can't be arsed. He doesn't want to do more than he's doing already, he's happy having you do all the running around. So this could relate to why his friendships didn't grow or last, because he couldn't be arsed to invest in them.

Thirdly, he will wear you down. He will have you cross examine yourself constantly, wondering why things are not as great as they were. STOP THIS NOW. Take your lovely hair and bum and run to the bloody hills girl.

And your comment trying to say that he must be ok, because his kids are lovely. Well, my kids are bloody lovely, and their father's an absolute twunt. I brought the kids up, when he did "do parenting" he followed my lead, and floundered when I wasn't around, because HE WAS TOO LAZY to follow through on behaviour stuff, and even the day to day helping with the homework stuff.

I bet if you had half an hour talking to the ex, she would enlighten you what life was like with this manipulative man-child. Bet she exudes relief that she no longer has to try and please him.

Give yourself a pat on the back for getting out now. You can make this break as easy as you like - tell him you've gone off him, even his hair and saggy bum. Then invest the time you'd spend on analysing him, on loving yourself and your lovely kids. X

Yeah he's punishing you. How dare you have your own life or mind of your own!

I've been in abusive relationships. Two of them. They don't start off physically abusive, they start off like this.

Even if he never ever hit you all the other stuff would make your life truly miserable. He would cut you off from your friends eventually so that you only had him. It would become the norm the way you are living your life right now, but full time as he'd be living with you and you would never get to go out.

There are so many flags.

Him reading your texts (massive invasion of privacy and obviously doesn't trust you and has jealousy issues)

Making you unhealthy food (trying to make you less attractive, my ex did that, i put on two stone!)

The loging out of skype thing (controlling behaviour)

Wanting to know where you are all the time (again controlling)

Sneaking into your house quietly (has trust and jealousy issues and was trying to catch you out)

His attitude to women (he's really telling you who he is here, really listen!)

Im sure there were plenty more but those were the ones that stuck in my mind. Run, run like the wind!