If you DP said this to you how would you react......

[Beyondconfused]

I have written on here recently regarding me and DP. I have decided to separate from him, we have an 18 month old daughter, all very sad, but alas he won't come to Relate and we can't address our issues and communicate well,he attacks if he hears anything he doesn't agree with and seems to hear his own version of what I've just said. He has an underlying attitude of belittling me (he says I frustrate him which is why he says things in anger).... I am now looking for a flat with my DD.

Anyway.

Tonight, we talked about the split, about our relationship etc. As always we don't agree, he sees his truth and stubbornly refuses to take responsibility for his actions. I see both sides and that we are BOTH the cause. Things got heated in conversation,I said nothing abusive at all, just points about our past problems that he didnt' agree with and then he said

"If you were a bloke I'd knock your teeth down your throat".

How would you have reacted to this?
I reacted with disbelief,and told him it was being abusive. He said it wasn't, and that he was frustrated and that as he said "if you were a bloke" prior to the threat therefore it wasn't a threat. I asked him how he would feel if he heard his Dad say that to his Mum. He said I was overacting and that I'm crazy. I told him firmly that he cannot speak to me like that and that it's utterly wrong.

Have I overreacted?

Look, never mind what he says, he's a knob. He thinks that you're a 'woman' and therefore you exist to please and obey him, and any kind of challenge or disagreement is unacceptable to him therefore he will attack. And if he can't succeed in intimidating you and making you shut up by shouting at you, he will escalate to violence, because in his head he has to conquer you. So don't engage, just get rid.

narked - my feelings totally. I have asked him many times since DD was born to address our communication problems, go to Relate. He said over his dead body, that who are they to tell him how he should feel, the whole thing would be degrading and he'd just make things worse because he tell me what he really thinks about me!
Oh, but I'm to blame for everything and for 'taking his daughter' away.

If I loved my partner and child and wanted to stay together and make it work I'd move hell or high water to do that, even if the thought of going to Relate filled me with utter horror.

Instead I just get nasty verbal threats like tonight and told it's my fault for making him so frustrated that he says those things. GRRRRRRRR.

And yet somehow, I'm sitting here still trying to work out if I said anything that warranted such a response, wondering what my part in it was, was it me etc....yet I bet he's not given what he said a second fucking thought!

How close are you to getting out of there?

You would do best to pretend he wasn't there anymore, not nice but the best way to deal with it.

Can you go to a friends/relatives?

blue After he said those words to me he immediately said that we should remain polite etc until I move out but never talk about our relationship ever again, so in effect to just do as you suggest I guess.
He had already asked me to go and stay with my parents this weekend as it's bank holiday and he doesn't want us to argue.
Men, why are they so scared of talking? Why do they hate it when you talk and try and address problems? Why can't they admit to their failings but instead attack? God, I want to understand, I really do.

It must be very hard, I haven't been in your situation, similar one but we managed to work it out --sort of-

He sounds like he is very disrespectable towards you and doesn't want to put any effort in.

You sound like your doing really well and I'm sure you will be fine. Will you go to your parents for the long weekend?

He's obviously swivelling massively. What worked previously doesn;t anymore and he is now trying to change tactics then reverting because he can;t help himself.

Real men do talk and address.

Stop trying to understand OP.

You know enough.

Glad you managed to work things out blue.
Yes, he can be very disrespectful towards me, I told him this tonight. Unsurprisingly he didn't agree with me and blamed me for his frustration. I remember all the belittling things he's said to me (obviously, as they've hurt me a lot over the years and he never takes responsibilty for them)....tonight he said he felt he couldn't feel comfortable saying anything to me in an argument again in case I brought it up in the future and that I never let things go and move on.

How can you let things go when they've not been addressed and an apology hasn't been offered? I won't give examples of what he's said but trust me, they have been very belittling and undeserved and the same things have come up time and time again, even though I've told him how disrespectul he is to me and how much his attitude has hurt me, I even wrote him a long letter a few years ago to try and make him understand.

I guess I am trying to make him take some responsibility for his part in why I feel I have to leave ..but he won't and there is just no point in trying at all as it seems that then I'm just some mad woman who "rants" at him.

Time to give up.:(

missfaversham - yes, you are right, I must stop trying to understand. Thanks.

Claps at Beyond. Stay strong sweetheart. As women we always try to understand huh. There in is our downfall.

I agree with MissF it's not 'men' it's this man. He wont ever take responsibility for his actions in his own mind or out loud. He wants to control your behaviour and your interactions and now that's not working he's playing the hard done by victim and shifting the blame onto you, re-writing past events so the blame lies squarely at your feet.

The most sensible thing to do will be securing his financial and any other responsibilities to your DD (access etc) through legal means. Situations ike this always end up getting very, very messy when things aren't set in stone within the law because he will mess you around and it will be your fault for being unreasonablee, demanding etc. The law gives you a framework within which to work and also 3rd party involvement so it cant all be you.

You said he was a secent man and I'm sorry I disagree because of his behaviour. You can't be a good man and do bad things.

I've read a couple of things you've said which are statements right from an abuse textbook - doubting statements. Minimising statements. I would also like to mention take care when you see your counsellor that you are telling the whole story and not minimising it it your head, sharing the blame and distorting it, however, slightly before you tell the counsellour so you get opinions on the real situation.

Decent even. Apologies for general state of post - I'm trying to do too many things at once!

Well done for leaving beyond, it is indeed time to give up, he is in fact right, there is no point in discussing your relationship any more, it's good that you are going to counselling and looking at your role in the relationship, but really, stop blaming yourself he is a big twatty manchild who cannot assume responsibility for his own actions and emotions and prefers to blame everything on you. You will never win in this situation, onwards and upwards eh .

Thanks for all your replies.
Well after a night of very little sleep (thankfully we sleep apart ), he came in the bedroom this morning, gave our DD a kiss and said not a single word to me. Not an apology (not that I was expecting one from him as he never apologies),nor even an acknowledgment. He then went off to work. I am now at my parents so we at least have some space.

DD has been really clingy this week. She is only 18 months old. Would she be able to sense a stressed and unhappy Mummy already? She keeps waking in the night (her cot is in my room), says Mama and then I end up letting her sleep on the bed with me and she gives me a huge cuddle. Surely she can't sense things already?

Yes she can sense already.

Why are you so intent on an apology? Just wondering?

a baby can sense such things in the womb - she can definitely sense a LOT more than you think she can at 18 months old.

stay safe.

I don't say that lightly - it is well documented that the time around a woman decides to leave such a relationship and the months following the split are the MOST dangerous.

Stay safe. If in any doubt, call 999 - it will not be an over-reaction

curiousmama - You ask why I'm intent on an apology....I'm not, as I know he wouldn't apologise. But perhaps I would hope that an apology meant he realised that what he said was terrible, perhaps I was hoping he would take responsibility for what he said and realise it was wrong. Is that wrong of me?

Lewis - Thanks, but I don't see him as dangerous at all. Just a very upset/angry/frustrated/hurt father who feels he has been conned (his words) as I am separating from him 18 months after our dd was born.

yes, I know you do, but from the outside looking in and with a professional and personal history in dealing with these type of relationships, you need to just be aware. That's all - just be aware that you always have "an out" and aren't cornered / vulnerable

I know it sounds awful and scary to put such labels on it, but your relationship isn't normal. It isn't normal for people to say such things when they're angry or upset (to a normal level, that is)

He is frustrated because you're strong enough to stand up to him and "hurt" that he's losing you; but he's not hurt enough to help you change the relationship for the better... he's not upset enough to be willing to go to counselling to discuss things, is he?

conned in to what, exactly? I take it you didn't attack him to get him to make your DD with you... he was compliant and is just as responsible for your relationship as you are. The problem is, he doesn't see it that way - he's the victim, according to him and it's all been done to him, even though you know and I know and everyone on this thread knows it's his behaviour that has caused this series of events.

Just be aware, that's all I'm trying to say.

Thanks so much Lewis for your advice, what you are saying about him is exactly how I feel about the situation. I guess I have been trying to make him understand that not one person but two people create a situation and blame doesn't lie with one person. However, for him, it's just all my fault and he's been conned into having a baby with me as I'm now having to leave him after only 18 months of her life because I see no future ahead if we can't address our problems. And no, he's not hurt enough to go to counselling.

It doesn't matter what I say to him to try and make him take some responsibilty, he will not. And the more I go on talking to him about it (in a reasonable manner) the more he hates it, the more calm and rational I am about it the more he hates it....culminating in what he said last night.

I'm still somewhat in shock that he doesn't see that it was wrong.

I've experienced some abusive in my two other relationships, and I'm starting to wonder if it's me. The difference this time being that when it happened in the past the men in question were actually aware that what they did or said was wrong and took responsibility. But with him, he will not. AT ALL. My head is banging against a brick wall.

Does anyone recommend a good book on this kind of relationship?

"why does he do that" by lundy bancroft is excellent and when you have some time / headspace you may want to look into doing a Freedom Programme course (it's 12 weeks long) as you say that you've had a few relationships with abuse in. It may shed some light on while it's NOT "you" - you may be attracted to them / drawn in for particular reasons and explore the behaviour and help you avoid such relationships in the future.

You strike me as a very strong type, Beyond - you will get past this and there's a billion people on here to help you whenever you need :)

Sounds like u are anything but compatible

He's obviously very angry and very Angry with you. Your def better off apart... He sounds very bitter towards you.

It's not for you to tell him to see things, he's an adult. If he doesn't then you need to just leave it. Move on.

OP...there is absolutely no excuse for this behaviour. If you retaliate too, it then becomes toxic and destructive, do you really want a relationship like that? Do you want your DD to witness it too?

It's a no brainer...send him back to the stone he crawled out from...a vile man..

Good luck

Thank you all. Lewis I will order that book today and look into the Freedom Programme course. I see that on OneSpace website you can do it online so I will try that. I have also signed up for their assertiveness online course to try and see if it's my communication style that is the problem.
Rachey - Yes, he's very angry with me, understandably as our daughter won't grow up with two parents together and he won't get the happy family ideal he thinks we should have (yet won't address the issues we have to try and make the happy family happen).