Not sure if this should be a dealbreaker

[ArthurandGeorge]

Dp is crap with money. This has caused tension between us before. He also has his own business which isn't doing well at present but to be fair to him this is as much what is going on for everyone in his trade as his own ability.

He owes 5k on credit card. He asked dfil to lend him the money to pay it off, with a plan to repay dfil whi dfil was happy with. He assurred me that this was what he would do with the money and dfil checked the plan with me before giving dp the cheque.

He has spent it on a car, which he claims is really cheap and he can easily sell at a profit.

I am absolutely furious with him and dfil is very upset. I told dfil as soon as I found out but dp does not yet, I think, know that dfil knows iyswim.

He states that at the point of asking dfil for the money and getting me to agree to the plan etc he didn't know about the car.

I feel that I can't trust him at all.

The issue isn't so much the money as the lies and I feel like he used me to lie to dfil. Really upset.

We are meant to be getting married later this year.

I married a man who was saddled with debt through making stupid choices. He never lied to me though.

We made it through and have now been married for over 20 years with 2 DC.

We only survived it by me taking charge of the money and the debt - he admitted he was crap and let me take over. I think if he hadn't allowed this and carried on we'd never have stayed together. It took me 15 years to clear all the debt and build up enough savings to feel 'safe' if a big unexpected bill came in'.

The funny thing is he is now as tight as duck's arse and I have to plead my case to book a holiday

Poo I DID end up paying all of his debt off. It took 2 years of sheer hard graft. I'm now in a beautiful house with a great job while he is still living the same lifestyle we had together. Unkempt house, no money, doesn't work, he's "too busy!", can't afford treats for the kids etc etc and he had a heart attack last year through stress!!! I was gutted he didn't die pleased he pulled through for the kids' sake.

The point of that waffle was I feel if I'd stayed with him I would still be living like that.
I agree with the posters who have said its not the debt cos that can be sorted, and it's not the fact they're crap with money cos in a partnership that can be sorted too. It's when they lie or you have to be the bad guy all the time for not supporting the hare brained schemes!

It really depends on his reaction to it.

'No, everything is OK. Not such a big issue' would be deal breaker for me.

On the other side, a friend of mine was in a similar situation with her DP. But her DP was happy to cut all his cards of, hand all the finances to her and then also get some counselling to deal with what they were acknowledging was some sort of addiction (so there was debts and lies about the debts).
A few years down the line, they are now very happy, finances are back in shape and they are getting married next year.

What do you think his position is?

Well, I have briefly spoken to him on the phone. He has not been in work today. He says that he is "fucked" and owes money to other people too, I do not know the exact amounts but he has told me what they are for iyswim. He has (I think) business assets that he could sell which should cover these debts unless they are much.much more than my estimates.

I suspect that this episode with the money from his Dad was a wild hope that he could turn things around quickly.

He was very angry/stressed on the phone. He has not told his Dad what he has done and dfil has not told him that he knows.

He says that he will be home to see the children before bed, when I asked him when he got very cross.

I am very worried about his mental state tbh.

Where has he been, OP, if he's not been at work or at home? You mentioned in an earlier post he hasn't been coming home, perhaps to avoid this conversation.

He sounds like he might be in quite serious trouble. I think you need to let your DFIL know and then let him know DFIL knows, all the tiptoeing around isn't going to help anyone if the shit is really hitting the fan. He needs to be completely honest with you or I really do think you need to consider how best to protect yourself and your dc. Regardless of any other consideration, it sounds like the expense of a wedding is out of the question.

You need real life support, don't shoulder all this on your own just because he doesn't want people to know. Making mistakes is part of life - but you know the saying about 'it's always the coverup, not the crime' that gets you. You don't have to be part of the coverup.

Arthur

Your priority is you and the children. I do know (believe me I really know) that you all want DP to be well/secure/sorted and sane for you to be happy. Sometimes you cannot make this a reality for him. You have to put yourselves first and hope DP sorts himself out. Taking all of you down is not going to help him.

This is an awful time for you because of the worry about his mental health and then the financial consequences to you however once you have got past this crisis I would really withdraw yourself.

Others may say, stick with him and support but only do that if you feel absolutely confident that he is on board/honest and this was a one off.

Get DFIL on board definitely

He is upstairs with the dc now. He is very quiet.

I has other debts but they are not greater than the assets in his business afaik.

He says he has been sitting in his caravan and driving around.

I feel dreadful in that he really cannot help that his business has suffered in the current economic climate. But I cannot trust him now.

I know that dfil gave him a similar amount for the business a couple of years ago though that was a gift as they were giving his bro some money for his flat at the same time.

I am really struggling.

Have told 2 rl friends now who both said not to get married.

I think if you stay with him you are in for a hairy time. Perhaps you could take over finances and basically run the show. Some women can make a go of that but it's hard work, I think. It wouldn't work for me because I hate organising men.

Dont, whatever you do, marry him. I would rather tie myself financially to my cat than to someone like your DP. I'm sorry.

Do not be surprised if he starts up with some sob stories about having borrowed money from loansharks. He may have, or he may not. The thing is that you cannot afford to be dragged into his financial quagmire.

Dont let him have any sort of deeds or certificates for joint assets. Keep pass books for childrens accounts etc secure from him. He is a sucker for get rich quick schemes and will throw your money away after his.

He may not be able to help the downturn in his business but he bloody well can help pissing away the money his dad has given him in good faith. Twice. Frankly he has no business running a business if he's this hopeless with money, and I think he needs to think seriously about how he can trade in the future.

But right now he needs to sort himself out, and it's very important you don't do that for him - he's been bailed out over and over by his parents, by the sound of it, and all he's learnt is that every time he messed up someone else steps in to sort it out for him.

Yes, tribpot. I think that probably is the crux of it tbh, I am not sure he has ever learnt the consequences of things.
He also seems very ashamed of the idea of not having money eg he would never tell our friends that we couldn't afford to do something even though they would often say "No, can't do that expensive meal as we are skint this month".

It is very difficult.

Don't get married.

Keep finances separate.

Make sure your family and friends never give him money.

Whether you want to stay with him or not only you can tell, but be prepared for the fact that he may never change.

Good luck

"I am not sure he has ever learnt the consequences of things. "

If Dad bails him out all the time, he'll never learn. If he hasn't the confidence to say 'we can't afford that', thinking he looks small in front of friends, he is a very weak character who is going to be easily led rather than say 'no thanks'. The trouble with this kind of person is that it's never just the money. They tend to be selfish, irresponsible and impulsive in other ways because there's always someone around to make excuses for them and clean up their mess. They lie rather than admit failure. They make terrible husbands.

Cognito were we married to the same man?

I was starting to wonder that myself Toothbrush... :) Unfortunately, I think they're pretty common. Mine was the youngest of a large and relatively well-off family and therefore a classic spoilt brat that thought money & luxuries would always come his way. If the OP's DP's Dad can give out a few thousand here and there, I'm guessing the family also has cash.

Pil are not poor but not particularly wealthy. They seem to be very sensible with money, unlike dp!

I am thinking hard about how we could divide our assets if we stayed together but not married..

Is he into doing up classic cars and knows the market? Otherwise, anyone who thinks they can sell a car at a profit is seriously deluded. They depreciate. Anyway, he should sell it now and pay his father back as much as he can.

I am going to sound about 500 years old but what he did with his father's money is dishonourable.

On the assets question, it's going to be down to paperwork. Where there is antying of value, make sure you are on all important documents such as house deeds, insurance policies etc. If you have a mortgage, ask for statements as people in debt often borrow against their home. For bank and credit card account make sure your name is on nothing where money is owed.... whether you stay together or split, they are personal debts and you should not make yourself liable. Manage your own bank account and build up a balance rather than feeling obliged to put everything into a joint account or pay off his debts with your money.

We own our home together jointly, this has a mortgage on it. We own a small flat together jointly, we rent this out and it doesn't have a mortgage on t directly but we borrowed against the house to buy it iyswim.

We only have separate bank accounts and credit cards etc.

Bumping you Arthur...

my DB had a money spending problem. i think you should prepare yuorself for:

1. layers of lies
2. emotional blackmail
3. giving tough love. with the emphasis on tough.

I have cancelled the wedding. Just sent the email now. Feel a bit sad but also really quite relieved. We haven't talked about it much really. I said last night that I thought we should cancel it and he agreed.

We haven 't talked about whether or not there is any other future for us. I would like to think that there could be but I am not convinced.