DH is in a mess....this is long!

[overandunder]

DH hit me with a bombshell recently - he loves me, but basically isn't in love with me - or something along those lines.

Now, a bit of background info....

We recently had DD2 (6 months ago) - she was the baby we thought we'd never have, after a series of mc's. We had to get treatment for this, and we are so lucky to have her.

DH has a job that involves working away - it as been particularly stressful for the past year, and he has also had hideous dental problems, a bout of shingles 3 weeks after DD was born and his dad has recently been ill.

We have been married for coming up to 11 years, and been together for 14. We celebrated our 10th anniversary whilst I was heavily pregnant last year with a lovely break at a beautiful hotel, and he bought me a gorgeous bracelet too.

I turned 40 in Jan, and he surprised me with a trip to NYC - he did this fantastic treasure hunt around the house, and I cried when I discovered the gift at the end - I just didn't expect it.

We have had our ups and downs like any long relationship, but we've always been good at communicating, and worked through them. I have had problem with depression - due to mc's and other difficult things - and he's supported me throughout.

I think that I've had my head down and just been focusing on getting through the newborn phase, and maybe I haven't been supporting him enough. I can be snappy at times, but I am in no way a complete cow.

He is up for going to Relate and we start seeing someone in a week. He says that he's lost respect for me, and I can see that all he's doing is looking at the bad stuff. I know from my MH issues that this is what you do when you are struggling and stressed.

I gently suggested that he needs to take time off work on the phone last night - he didn't really acknowledge this, and I know that we need to sit down and discuss it. The problem is that he is self-employed and the main breadwinner, and probably sees this as not possible. I have found myself looking at jobs this morning to see if I can get a job - it's a bit tricky as I used to be an FE lecturer in Textiles and the jobs are hard to come by. Also, they don't pay anywhere near as much as DH's salary.

I suspect that someone will come on here and start blathering about him having an affair as there's always one on most relationship threads that I've read! He unequivocally is NOT, so please don't come on and suggest this. There is absolutely nothing in his behaviour that has me worried about this (although I have thought about it, as I think it is only natural to go down that thought pattern).

My DH has always been an incredibly loyal, kind and considerate man and I love him with all my heart. The stress of this has had me taking painkillers to get through it - not ideal, but a short term fix for those really bad days. I am prepared to fight for my marriage and he does want to work on it too, but it hurts me so much to know that he feels like this about me.

His mum came over last night as I was upset, and she thinks that he is in a mess. She is planning to phone him tonight, and she's very gentle and will hopefully get him to admit that he needs time off from work.

I bought him a spa day for his bday recently as I know he's been stressed - I also have been doing more around the house to try to take the pressure off him. I sent him back to work with a survival pack before this happened too, so he knew that we were thinking about him - he was touched, and appreciated this.

I phoned him a couple of weeks ago on his way home from work in a mess - I'd hit the vodka, and was suffering with raging PMT, and just ranted down the phone at him. He called back straight away and told me he'd had an epiphany at work that day when he told someone to Fuck off - he realised that the job is fucking him up. I think he's dismissing that this week, as he's having a bad week and being all pessimistic again.

Sorry this is a long post - I was hoping for some constructive advice, or maybe something from someone who has been through a similar thing. I feel like I am going slowly mad and my whole world has been turned upside down. I also feel like maybe I have been really inconsiderate and not been looking out for him - but the last 18 months have been all about the pregnancy and the baby - I've just had my head down.

Are you still in love with him?

If I'm being honest your marriage sounds like really hard work, you seem to have gone through a lot together and you mention now that you've had times where you had feelings for someone else

Maybe your marriage has just run its course and he wants out but is too scared to tell you? Maybe he musts wants some breathing space and not for you to try and 'fix' things for him? Sometimes people do just fall out of love

Either way it's great that your going to relate, if I were you I'd try and leave any big discussions until then

Look, I'm not going to comment about people's assumptions that he must be having an affair anymore- I could spend hours trying to convince you that he wasn't, but you are all making judgements based on your experiences, and that is fair enough and completely understandable.

The support from others is invaluable, so thank-you

Over a few years ago my wonderful, strong supportive DH had a period of being snappy and 'off' and withdrew into himself. He told me everything was fine, even though it obviously wasn't. He eventually told me he wasn't happy and wanted a divorce. I was absolutely floored. I thought we had a very happy, loving marriage.
When I spoke to a RL friend she put into perspective - she said, your DH does not want a divorce, he loves you. He shows you that often through his actions. He is confused and depressed and tired, but this is not your drama. It's HIS drama.
This became my mantra. Like you I knew there was no other woman and no real reason for him to feel like this. I managed to stay calm and collected (not easy!) knowing I hadnt contributed to his drama.
Eventually, with love, kindness and support he came our of the fog! To this day he cant explain that period.He said he got thinking too deeply about whether life would always be like this (even though it was happy) and thought he needed to maybe 'live a little more' - maybe some midlife crisis?
Anyway we're still together, still happy and I adore him. And I know he adores me. I think Relate is a great idea.
You've acknowledged how you may have fed into his 'depression' or whatever it is but it doesn't mean you are to blame. I hope you will come out the other side of this. Hold on and hang on in there but try not to take HIS crisis personally if that makes sense.

Yes, I do love him. The troubles we have had have been created by work stress or multiple miscarriages - things that would rock any marriage, I guess. We've always had a strong bond and shared interests, but we've just lost our way and haven't had much time for each other.

Times when I had feelings for someone else were just a passing attraction - I may be married, but I can still find other men attractive, and wonder about the excitement of new relationships! That was along time ago though....

I am wondering whether he is just totally overwhelmed by the baby thing. Men can suffer from pnd as well. My dh turned temporarily into a complete nob after I had ds. We had been together 16 years and had been trying to have a baby for 8 and after all the disappointments and trauma we finally had a son but it was like dh couldn't really cope. DS turned out to be a high maintenance little sod - needed little sleep and bf every 2.5 hours. DH was sleeping in a separate room with full nights sleep but he seemed permanently exhausted and shell shocked. He was great with ds but up for a fight with me permanently.

When I would snap at him after another failure to help he would start on how I had changed and how grumpy I was. After 5 months I eventually had an enormous row with him and , if you will excuse the cliche, to shape up or ship out. I told him if he was ill he needed to see a doctor otherwise he needed to man up. I was deadly serious I didn't need him making things worse when I was so exhausted. He did snap out of it.
I think you may need to ask your dh to do the same thing. You don't have time for all this crap- either he seeks help or he pulls himself together. Why would he turn the precious time you have with your must waited for baby into a drama about him.

I think you misunderstand what I was saying OP. It's the reverse of what you think. I agree with you entirely that marital discord doesn't always lead to an affair. Hence I was suggesting on this and your last thread that in more cases than people think it's the other way around - affairs lead to marital discord. That's why I was interested in why he seemed very much in love with you in January, staging the birthday surprise which was lovely - and yet by April had dropped this bombshell.

I get that you don't want to entertain this and I can see you're defensive about the suggestion, but I can also see that you're making the mistake of applying your own values to your husband and also thinking that you'd know the signs again because someone else has cheated on you. Your husband is not you and he's not your ex.

Maybe he's depressed and stressed (very different things) but IME, those things don't in the space of 4 months cause someone to fall out of love and lose respect for a partner.

I'm also with MAHC about the fact that I've never heard of a situation in RL or on this and other forums to which I contribute, where the phrase 'I love you, but I'm not in Love with You' coming from a man has not been an affair. It often means different things when a woman feels or says this - and an agreement to go to counselling is not the safety blanket it often appears to be. MAHC is right that for some men, there is another agenda associated with that. Some men having affairs go because they are conflicted and suffering a 'split-self' and hope the counselling will help them to choose and some men go in order to pretend that they have tried everything to save the marriage. The point is though that counselling never works when there are secrets of this kind.

If you don't believe there is anything hidden from you, then all you can do is deal with what's known to you.

Which is that he has doubts about his feelings for you and has said he doesn't respect you. You make excuses for why he said the latter, but the point is he has never retracted that statement and for some reason, you've never followed him up on it. That's pretty odd in my view and I wonder why you're not confronting that, or why he hasn't retracted it if it wasn't true?

In general, it's not good for a person's self-esteem or indeed the relationship, to stay in a relationship where the love and respect has gone - for whatever reason. The effect on your has been disastrous; you are using painkillers and on one occasion alcohol, to deal with your turmoil.

It is a kinder thing to do to get some space from eachother while he resolves his doubts. This is actually the best way of saving the relationship too, because mollycoddling someone who has said he doesn't respect or love you creates a very bad power dynamic in the relationship - and actually leads to the other person losing even more respect for you.

mushroomsoup - you've made me well up! Thanks so much for that - it rings so many bells, and I only hope we get to where you are.

He has alluded to a mid-life crisis, and questioning things. And alot of his actions are still very loving.

Marriage can be hard work - especially when life throws you a lot of curve balls at the same time. Sometimes that ends up in affairs, sometimes it ends up in silence, sometimes nagging/ranting and sometimes it ends up with two people acknowledging the situation and working it out.

OP you sound like you've had some ups and downs - you maybe do need to make sure they are aired in Relate to avoid anything festering. But look at the kids, look at the job - what can change immediately, what can/will change in 6 months, 12 months, and what frankly wont change. Whats left - is it enough - and from your passion I really hope it is enough for both of you.

My personal situation has at least a 6 month, probably 12 month period before its realistically going to change. That is shite but its where we are.

There's a great MN saying ... ignore, ignore, ignore...
I reckon there should be another ... talk, talk, talk

Great post charbon

So you do not want to entertain the idea he could be having an affair despite him working away from home so you not really knowing.

Also do you think it wise to be hitting the vodka with a six month old baby????

I think he needs some space to work out what is going on in his own mind before he can start to work out what is going on with your marriage

You have said more than once you're not sure that you have supported him enough. I wonder though, if he has supported you enough, now that the second child has come along? Even with work stress, you have to pull your weight at home. The more he does that, then the less he is likely to lose respect for you as the person at home with the children (and I speak as a full-time WOHM, with a SAH husband).
Just prompted by what someone said about power imbalances upthread-you may be facing a crisis following his revelation but please don't let that end up creating a situation where the whole focus of the relationship is about meeting his needs not yours.

Are you ok OP?

I understand you don't want to hear that he might be having an affair OP.

But what I don't understand if you strongly dismiss it and truly believe it's impossible.

But what I don't understand is you only listening to - and very pointedly thanking posters - who are saying exactly what you want to hear. How is that helping you? You only want to hear he's stressed and depressed. You don't want to hear that he might be in any way be acting selfishly or thoughtlessly and in fact blaming you for these problems...In what way is it helping you to see a very narrow, simplified and possibly whitewashed take on what's going on?

Sorry meant to say in my second sentence I even understand if you 100% don't believe he's not having an affair

When i had PND i was vile to DP for a while and it eroded our love, he told me he felt nothing for me - that was five years ago now HE WAS NOT HAVING AN AFFAIR! He was at the end of his tether, stressed from financial strain - he told me he didn't love me anymore :( He did love me, he still does. Things are still tough but the one thing we know is that we do love each other.

I get cross when people jump in with "affair" right at the start. I do think that when a man has an affair he will use all of those excuses because he is kidding himself, but to just come to that conclusion straight away is damaging. No one can be 100% of anything, maybe he is having an affair, but at this moment in time the OP is sure he isn't. Support her in wanting to reach out to her husband instead of the unanimous "leave the bastard" IF it turns out that I am wrong then continue to support. Not everyone under stress and lashing out at their partner is having an affair, he has agreed to counselling, it sounds like he wants to try!

oh ffs if you 100% believe he's not having an affair

If he doesn't love you or respect you then he should move out.

Also, you are probably really creative if you taught Textiles to FE level. Can you turn your mind and hand to using those wonderful skills to set up a small business you can do from home, working around your DC? Fabric wall hangings are massively on trend, beautiful cushions, search around on the internet and look at magazines like Period Homes for inspiration then get your sewing machine out. Set yourself up on Etsy or Folksy and start selling.

You have enough on your plate looking after the kids all the time while he is away, sorting out the house, keeping a happy family home etc.

He is big and ugly enough to get help for himself, instead of ruining your confidence in yourself with hurtful crap and making the mother of his lovely children start mangling her mind with vodka and pain-killers.

You could start by calling his bluff when he is next home by telling him you are not sure you love him either and haven't missed him and best call it a day.

Stop pandering to him anymore - sounds like you have done that for three months and it's got you nowhere.

Tell him you have had the house valued and seen a solicitor. If he is relieved and in agreement then you have your answer. If he starts back-pedalling then ask him to move out anyway while you decide if you can start loving his sorry arse again.

It could be stress from new baby or work but why should it diminish his love for his wife ? In times of stress at work good men actually get closer to the wife and seek support.

He hasn't been completely vile to me, that's the whole reason why I'm sticking with this for now.

From the start of these discussions, he said that he didn't want to tell me some of his feelings because he didn't trust his current frame of mind, and was worried about doing permanent damage to our relationship. He has been considerate towards me, but I have pushed for honesty, and he's given it to me. He doesn't blame me, but I have to accept that I am sometimes feisty, moody and not considerate of his feelings. Just as he has admitted that he needs a kick up the arse too.

This has only happened over the last month, so it's all relatively new, and we are taking action to try to resolve it. I have no intention of walking out of my marriage at the first sign of trouble, as it would break my DD1's heart - and whats the point of taking marriage vows "for better, for worse", if you do walk out at crisis points?

Also, the way some of you are approaching your posts, you make me sound like I'm some vodka-addled junkie! I had a few ONE night, and I have on occasions, taken 2 halves of one painkiller, throughout the day, to take the edge off, and be able to be a calmer mum to my kids. Not sensible, but I'm not too concerned, as I know I'm in control. I am starting to talk to people about it and no doubt, that will help too.

I certainly am not pandering to him - I'm trying to show him some support, and doing my best to try to show him that we can work through this. Flying off the handle and chucking him out isn't really tackling it in the best way for us. I just need to find a way for me to deal with it, whilst we try to find our way. I most definately have no intention of a doormat - that's just not in my make-up.

I would definitely sugges he goes to see his GP though asap. I have suffered/suffer with bouts of depression and it changes how you view your life absolutely. The medication they prescribe, and monitor, works wonders. Within a month the fog lifts. I'm not saying everything then becomes perfect but you just view it more optimisitically. Urge him to go - along with the counselling you could sort this... good luck

We aren't fighting/arguing/shouting around the kids either - if anything, we are making the effort to be more considerate and pleasant to each other. It's not out and out war, or hideous atmosphere - it's just us trying to get to the bottom of the problem.

Fooso - that's why I'm trying to support him, as I've had depression too, and I know that it makes you doubt EVERYTHING. Maybe I should suggest the doctor too.

I think hes probably worn out and depressed. Feeling like youve fallen out of love can be a major symptom of depression. Its the last thing anyone wants to admit though.

Over, I've just been. I've got a great partner and lovely kids - but still got myself in a state where I was unhappy - having had depression I knew exactly what it was - At least if he gets help with the GP, any decisions made you know are made with him being in a good place.

Pain killers are for physical pain, not "to take the edge off of coping"you might like to look at this