Should my DH do some housework?

[maybegoingwest]

I am fed up. Been married for ages and DCs now just left home. We had a very traditional set up with DH earning 80% of our income and working long hours, so I did all domestic stuff and cooking.
Now though my work is picking up and I expect DH to share the housework load. He doesn't. He can't cook and although he says he will try to learn, he doesn't. He does no cleaning at all. My standards are not high - believe me- but I exepct him to contribute something to the running of the place, bar putting out the wheelie bins and cutting the lawn.

If I ask him to do something he will- but never ever offers. So I feel a nag. Have stopped ironing his clothes.
Any ideas?

Nothing wrong with wanting a more equal set up. We all change as we go through different phases in life. All you are doing is taking a good look at your life and wondering what you want out of it and where you want life to take you. I think that's a healthy attitude. No point going on as you were. Without change life would be very dull.

So how do you explain this to your dh? That is really what you are asking isn't it.

I think it seems that the thing that bugs you most is that he has to be told over and over again about the simplest things. And this is a man who can hold down a job and look after himself when necessary, so it's not like he is not capable of learning.

Personally, I think he is choosing to behave like this and makes excuses for it (he doesn't 'see' what needs doing ) hoping that you will take over and do it for him.

If it were me I would explain to him everything that you have told us again. But this time I would make it clear that you do not want to be having to remind him or 'parent' him. Tell him that if he refuses to think for himself and be more considerate (ie slips back into old ways), there will be a consequence because you cannot go on like this.

If that doesn't get through to him I don't know what will.

okay- update.
Had a chat and asked why he has slipped back. He says he "forgets" and needs to get a routine. I asked what would happen if I forgot to shop for food or clean the house. No answer.

He didn't volunteer which jobs he'd do. I asked him what he thought I was talking about- replied "Hoovering."

He didn't want to talk about it- didn't say he wouldn't but just that glazed over, defensive look.

I still don't think he gets it.

Maybe you should forget...

Well, he has told you what he needs, so draw up a rota and stick it on the fridge. Assign him jobs. In a month, review with him whether it is working and if there was any of your assigned jobs that he would like to swap with one of his?

My h was like this, too.

He doesnt do it because he doesnt want to.

He doesnt because you do.

He thinks he is entitled not to.

He 'slips' back after promises made because he doesnt care enough, and he isnt committed to doing it.

He wants the part of an equal relationship which are in his favour, and not the other bits.

We ended up with alot more problems than this after 20 years, and went to Relate. He is alot more considerate now. Because he can be bothered.

(oh yes, I though be could be persuaded, changed, that he didnt know how , meant well,etc etc,- all not true).

I'm afraid I agree with recent posts, maybe. He's slowly moving from passive-aggressive inaction to aggressive. Do you know the term "dumb insolence"? It's a court-martial offence in the Army and, if you look up the definitions, covers most popular forms of passive aggression. Glazed silence is the classic form, which gave rise to the name.

Very annoyingly for you, it's nearly time to acknowledge that he's deliberately winding you up. Making sure you stay in your place.

Given that domestic equality was, quite reasonably, a term of your reunion, I think you need to ask yourself how well the reunion is working. I realise there must be much, much more to your relationship so this may be a tricky question to answer.

Personally, I wouldn't live with someone who enjoyed making a power struggle out of the bloody housework - but that's because I've already made that mistake twice! I know it's a bigger deal for me than it looks when discussing it with friends. It might be less of a deal for you ... ?

One bit of experience I'd like to pass on is that, whenever I 'dealt' with this problem by making it go away, H found another area to exert his control. It wears you down, that stuff. Things may be different in your household. Would you say your H has a need to let you know who's boss??

Oh he 'gets it' alright maybe, he just doesn't agree with it. So everytime you talk he has listened and nodded and made some agreeable responses with no intention of seeing it through. Each time it has gone back to how things were before, exactly as he planned.

Now that you are putting him in a tight spot by insisting that he listens properly, that he considers your needs and opinions, he realises that he can't fob you off so easily. You have got wise to that game. So the new tactic is to stonewall you.

He is starting to show his true colours. How you react will determine his future behaviour. If you let him get away with this, you are admitting defeat and will probably grudgingly get on with all the housework with an occasional nag at him to throw a bit of food together. That suits him, he can put up with that, for an easy life.

So the ball is in your court now. How do you feel? What do you really, really want. At the end of the day, you know you cannot change him, all you can do is give him the opportunity to change himself and it sounds like he doesn't want to.

Have you tried the 'all out strike'? Don't do a thing for him - cook your own food but nothing for him. Don't shop for him or do any of his laundry or pick up after him. Clean the things you want to but leave the rest. When he (eventually) ask you why, just let your eyes glaze over . . .

And in the meantime, why not look for new interests, especially things which get you out of the house during evenings and weekends. Get on with your life and let him wallow in his own filth.

Thanks all.

He is not the "boss". I am, Anyone who knows us well as a couple knows that.

He simply does not "get" housework.
When I asked him what he had done to change, he said he cleared up now. He means the dishes after dinner. IMO this is the bare minimum he should do.

I can't go out and leave the house a mess. I don't want to live like that. I am here a lot of the time. I have friends yes, but rarely go out in the evenings as all my friends are busy with families or work, or live too far away to make an evening "date".

I worked out my hours of work and they are between 20- 30 hours a week.
DH works around 55 hours a week.

I worked out the housework 5 - 6 hrs hrs a week- and cooking and that comes to and 9 hours week- including time spent shopping for food, preparing and cooking a meal.

So in terms of hours that he puts in to the house- what do you reckon?

The 20-30 hours are the hours you work because you have to do housework, or how many you want to work?

Right, I would suggest:

Monday - DH: Strip and remake bed, wash and dry dirty bedlinen
Monday - DW: Hoover throughout
Monday - DW cooks, DH does dishes (DH welcome to watch and learn how DW cooks in order to learn)
Monday - DW puts load of washing in before bed

Tuesday - DW dries last nights washing
Tuesday - DH:Clean bathroom
Tuesday - DW: Clean kitchen
Tuesday - DH cooks, DW does dishes

Wednesday - DH: Empty all bins and put out fresh bin liners in, bins out for binman
Wednesday - DW: Dusting
Wednesday - DW cooks, DH does dishes (DH welcome to watch and learn how DW cooks in order to learn)
Wednesday - DH puts on load of washing before bed

Thursday - DH dries last nights washing
Thursday - DH and DW together meal plan for Saturday Big Shop

Friday - DH and DW go out together for a meal - no housework needed!!!!

Saturday - DH: Hoover throughout, dust if needed
Saturday - DW: Garden
Saturday - DW and DH: Big Shop
Saturday - DH cooks, DW washes up

Sunday - DW: sweep and mop floors
Sunday - DH : Clean bathroom
Sunday - DW: load of washing on before bed if needed

Just an idea, an example, but a fair distribution of tasks.

Anything I have forgotton or missed? Note: I dont know when your bins go out, just guessing

A couple should have equal amounts of free time. Some will depend on commuting time (including to the shops!) and any obligations such as your voluntary work - none of this is 'free' time. You then need to devote such time to the household as leaves you with roughly equal feet-up/hobby time.

As I foresee him doing tasks very slowly in the name of his juvenile rebellion, I'd suggest you work the household allocation out according to the time it takes you to do tasks. Maybe add a little bit on, but don't double the time! Since claims such profound ignorance, how about employing a domestic purely to come in and teach him? You shouldn't teach him yourself, it makes for a weird dynamic. There probably are books, too; I've not looked.

xpost, MCL :)

There you go, OP, job done

He simply does not "get" housework

Sorry, OP, I don't believe this.

Do you?

Does he not 'get' that if you don't cook you won't be able to eat hot food?
Does he not 'get' that if you don't wash clothes they will be dirty and smelly?
Does he not 'get' that if you don't hoover the carpets will be covered in bits?
Does he not 'get' that if you don't clean the oven spilled food will go mouldy?

What exactly is it that he doesn't get?

Faire would you like to swap places for a week
By "not getting" I mean hw has very different standards.
Mine are not high- I dust when you can write your name in it. But I do hoover downstairs, and mop the kitchen floor and keep the loos and bathrooms clean, and change the bed once a week.

Left to his own devices, he would so all of this about once every 2 months I think- maybe he'd do the bathroom often but nothing else, except washing his clothes.

He would eat baked beans every night, or buy a pizza or a ready made curry. I cannot eat those due to my diet resrictions- health issue.

So he could exist pretty well really without doing much at all.

I refuse to strike to join him at his level- he needs to meet me at mine.

You need him to meet you at your level. Let's be straight with this.

So how may this be achieved? Can it be?

I'm quite in favour of 'strikes'. But you might have to live with only your workroom being as clean as you like it (done by you.) You might have to make only your own food, or eat out. Etc.

Alternatively, would you hire a cleaner-ironer? I know this was mentioned earlier, but can't find a definite answer. I did, out of the joint account obviously. I also started leaning heavily on M&S ready meals, also from joint money.

This next is almost a side issue now: I shared Lueji's concern about your estimated hours. You're starting up; you must need to invest a hell of a lot of time & effort in securing work and building contacts, doing your networking and so on. When you put your working hours at 20-30 a week, does this mean you're curtailing your professional time in order to deal with your home and relationship? I hope not! But, if so, I'd urge a rethink :)

I can fully understand that he doesn't 'get' housework. I hate housework, am crap at it, and find it very difficult to keep on top of it.

Without a written routine I don't have a snowflake's chance in hell of managing.

When my DH was out of work and was looking after the house it was immaculate. He just keeps doing bits and pieces and it all gets done.

Different personality types. But as I have far more 'home time' and 'free time' even WITH all the housework, it isn't fair of me to ask him to do housework M-F, even though he's far better at it than me.

So please don't scoff when people say 'he doesn't get it'. Those of you who are sceptical might 'get housework', but not everybody does.

I hate housework. It's a boring, repetetive, thankless task. But it just has to be done. I don't need to 'get' anything. If I don't clean, my house will be dirty and smelly.

I think OP, that you are saying he is happy to live in a dirty, smelly house and you are not. So your choice is either to get on and clean it, or leave him to live in his own filth.

Not sure what else we can advise. If he's not going to change and neither are you then you either carry on as you were or leave.

one quick win - stop doing his laundry.

Seriously. Once it starts to build up he will realise how much there is. Oh and tell him you are goling to stop doing it. He will assume you will keep doing it but will soon learn.
Also stop picking up and moving stuff he just dumps.

Quite simply ask him what would he do to keep a house clean if he was living on his own? Then if he says nothing tell him he's not going to get many visitors after the divorce comes through. Or then point out that he'll need a to get a cleaner in for a few hours a week to do his laundry and clean the bathroom and some kitchen shelves since he's not doing it.

A grown man can easily learn to cook even if it just involves buying a handful of parsley a couple of lemons and a jar of honey. It takes about 10 minutes to learn to part a whole chicken and another 10 minutes to prepare sticky lemon chicken. and whilst that's happening he can boil the water and drop the chicken bones in with an onion etc. and by the time you've eaten the sticky lemon chicken the left over potatoes can be added to the pot of chicken bones and tomorrows soup is ready. Now all he has to remewber is to buy a decent baguette on the way home and he's done the starter and you can do the main course.

Why would you wash his clothing for him if he never washes yours? I can understand if you don't want a new blouse burned etc so prefer to do your own but doing a grown mans laundry is just wrong. It would take him 5 minutes to put it into piles and enter a load in a machine and 5 minutes to shake it out or fold it after and hang it out.

Unless you are afraid of his reaction to you not doing these tasks then you could just stop doing them from today and once he runs out of work shirts he'll soon realise when he's got yellow arm pits and his shirt reeks in the morning that he'd better get more organsied.

I think the OP has already said she has stopped doing his laundry. It's all the other stuff that's a problem.

The real problem of course, is the lack of respect and communication.

OP, regarding his lack of cooking ability how about buying him a weekend basic cookery course? Do you think it?s a lack of ability that puts him off or that he doesn?t consider it his role? Only saying because I was so lacking in confidence at one point that I often bottled out of trying to cook a meal in case it went wrong and just relied on ready meals (I was living alone though). But I went on a 2 day cookery course and it was brilliant! It gave me the much needed confidence to get started. If he?s grown up with no tuition, a diet of ready meals, then a wife who feeds him, he probably is incredibly clueless and what seems like a simple task to us is far bigger to someone like him. Just a thought. Or buy him a cookery book for complete beginners?

Thanks all.

We had a chat last night and he seems to want me to be very prescriptive and tell him what needs doing.

As I said, the issue that I struggle with is that he works twice as many hours as I do, with travelling overseas thrown in- so he is often knackered by the weekend.

I do have a lot more free time, and although I could work on creative projects all the time in the hope of them being successful, we won't starve if I don't.

Before we married, he had a tiny flat then a 2 bed semi- and he'd clean up before I turned up ever other weekend. But that meant a quick hoover of 3 rooms- lounge, ktichen, bedroom and a clean of the bathroom.

However, cleaning a 4-bed, 2 bathroom house is dfferent.

He simply does not know what needs doing- thinks all you do is hoover and clean the bathroom now and then. It's a question of different standards- he'd leave it for a couple of months ( not the bath) then blitz.

He never had any input from his mum- they lived in a hotel so had cleaners- so he didn't notice I think what you'd do in a normal household- and since we've been married I've done most of the cleaning when he was at work.

The cooking is real issue and I am addressing that. He is willing to try so we'll have to see how it goes.

We could afford a cleaner but TBH I don't like strangers in my home, and I'd rather spend £80 a month on something else- like clothes!

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Cooking can be really relaxing and rewarding; if it's presented to him in the right way, he might really take to it. Good luck to you, OP, glad you had a good chat with him.

You're getting somewhere ... sort of

When X1 and I split, I realised he had no clue how to actually look after himself. I wrote him a detailed manual, including stuff like how to work the washing machine and basic nutritional guidelines. I bought him a cookbook that explained the hows & whys of cookery, as well as step-by-step recipes with lots of photos. Yes, I was horrified at myself!

Some time later he invited me round for a very nice dinner, cooked from scratch, then nonchalantly loaded the dishwasher. I knew he'd "get it" when he had to He became a very good cook.

I've always wanted to live in a hotel! It's my ideal