Should my DH do some housework?

[maybegoingwest]

I am fed up. Been married for ages and DCs now just left home. We had a very traditional set up with DH earning 80% of our income and working long hours, so I did all domestic stuff and cooking.
Now though my work is picking up and I expect DH to share the housework load. He doesn't. He can't cook and although he says he will try to learn, he doesn't. He does no cleaning at all. My standards are not high - believe me- but I exepct him to contribute something to the running of the place, bar putting out the wheelie bins and cutting the lawn.

If I ask him to do something he will- but never ever offers. So I feel a nag. Have stopped ironing his clothes.
Any ideas?

I don't know if he thinks housework is only fit for his wife to do (confused)

Maybe he will be made redundant and the Op will have to work full time and then he will have to do make a hash of the houseowkr while he gets into the groove?

Op doesn't sound that unhappy with her husband and she doesnt want a divorce etc; she just wants him to hoover and clean up more. But if he is a really nice bloke maybe rather than asking him to hoover up and empty dishwasher more often she can draw up a sex rota and be more adventurous and lahve a real intimate laugh and get closer etc, and also between them both book some holidays or short breaks together.

It seems a happy marriage apart from usual gripes that happen when the dynamic changes once kids have left home. This should be a time they give themselves permission to have Great Fun as far as they can financially etc, not to gripe about household shit and dishwasher etc.

Limited are you really 50? Reason I ask is that you see this as very simplistic. Sex and hols is not going to be the answer. Why do you think that working on other parts of the relationship ( if they need it- and you seem to think they do) is going to make me feel better and ignore his laziness in the house?

We have, FWIW, done the weekends away, booked hols, go out a bit more... but that is not the point.

I'm just pissed off with cleaning his mess up and calling him for his dinner each night like it was a hotel service or he was a kid.

Once a week I'd like him to cook for us- it can be a piece of fish and a salad for all I care.

I've asked him to do this and he did for about 2 weeks then dropped back. What makes me mad is that he goes ot the supermarket every weekend anyway to buy wine for himself. He asks if we need any shopping but he won't actually offer to choose what to cook for dinner.

And he won't cut back on work- he can't anyway- not that type of job.

Yes, of course he should.

What happens if you don't cook? Or don't clean up? As you don't have small children this could be a viable option. If he honestly thinks he does lots of things around the house, why not just tell him ok, but you don't think he does and you wonder what would happen if you stopped doing all the things you do. Then stop.

Btw, if people want to pretend the above is childish or passive aggressive - well, how childish is it to expect another adult to clear up after you?

But LRD how would I cope with living in he mess all day long? I work from home. I can leave his washing and ironing and not cook but why should I live in dirt?

Well, that is exactly what I feel like so I know exactly what you are saying.

All I know is, it did work for me a bit so maybe it is worth trying for a week or so?

I agree though, it is infuriating and awful for you.

It's just near-on impossible to convince someone that work needs doing when it has always been done around them. The only way I learned that a shower or a sink needs cleaning was by doing it. If he's never learned that he needs to.

Sorry if this sounds as if I am talking about him like a child - it's just that it's a stage in life most adults need to go through and he either has never learned, or he is lying through his teeth knowing how hard you are working, and not being willing to admit it.

I really hope the first one because he can change that.

You could move out?

He sounds a bit bored of it all. That's because it;'s bloody boring. For both sexes.

yes I am nearly 50.

Do you have friends of same age and situation - ie our kids have left, husband is still working hard etc? I do and we laugh and cuss about it all the time.

Its a major transition time I think. I just do less. He doesn't notice. We certainly don't live in 'shit'.

It's brilliant that you have a great sex life and go on hols. These are the main things.

Maybe, what about doing a list of all the tings that needs doing and decide with him the ones he is responsible for?
Then leave it to him. Do NOT do the things that he is responsible for, do not remind.
It doesn't have to be a 50/50 split but perhaps stir towards the things that you don't like or the ones where you know you can still live with if it's not perfect.
So in your case, you might want to still cook but he is the responsible for the dishes (ie load and unload the diswasher). You still do the ironing but he is responsible for all the washing (ie putting the washing to go, put stuff to dry, sort the clean stuff and put in cupboard etc..)

Start small. Tell him "on a Friday, I will NOT be cooking dinner. If you want a hot meal, you are welcome to make us both something. If you are not prepared to cook, then feel free to think up another way of feeding us"

We have talked. often

See, this is the bit that I don't get. Talk should be about resolution so if the issue is not resolved you need to go back to the table, sit down together and hash it out.

Things you need to establish are

1. Does he think housework, cooking, shopping, etc. is primarily your responsibility because you have always done it?
   If so, tell him you are unhappy with that arrangement and you want it to change

2. Does he think you should do it because you have more time at home than him?
   If so, work out what hours you both work over a whole week, inlcuding weekends.

3. Does he think you should do it because he isn't very good at it?
   If so, he just needs to practise

4. Does he think you should do it because he doesn't want to?
   If so, that's unfair and you should divide it more equally.

When you come to an arrangement, talk about how you do not want to be responsible for enforcing the agreement and that he should stick to it. So, if he is supposed to cook once a week and he fails to do so it's up to him to explain himself, not you to question. Also, if he is cooking he should also decide what to make and shop for it.

Time to have that talk again I think, and properly this time.

Faire thank you.

I'll put my responses here in italics.

Things you need to establish are

1. Does he think housework, cooking, shopping, etc. is primarily your responsibility because you have always done it?

Yes!

If so, tell him you are unhappy with that arrangement and you want it to change

I have told him this.

2. Does he think you should do it because you have more time at home than him?If so, work out what hours you both work over a whole week, inlcuding weekends.
   yes I have worked out that I do roughly a 26 hr week, but my work varies so much as I am self employed. if I don't have work in hand, I am networking on the web and effectively cold calling potential clients, so could work 8 hrs a day if i wanted to.

3. Does he think you should do it because he isn't very good at it?
   If so, he just needs to practise
   Yes he says he doesn't know what to cook. We eat very simple meals as I have various food intolerances, so plain grilled meat or fish and veg are fine.

4. Does he think you should do it because he doesn't want to?
   If so, that's unfair and you should divide it more equally.

no. he just doesn't see dirt.

Perhaps other people could tell me what their DHs do?

It won't compare if you have young DCs mind you.

My DH puts the rubbish out, he unstacks the dishwasher and restacks it, but often leaves the pans so before I start work next morning I have to clean them- sometimes I need them for my lunch etc.

That is all he does.

Well mine does everything really, we do it between us.

Let me see, he cooks, cleans (including the oven), washes clothes, sorts laundry, puts it away, ironing, hoovering, washing windows, shops for food, shops for birthday presents, decides what to make for dinner (he cooks most of our meals actually), gardening, basic diy, childcare when they were little but teenagers now, ferrying them around in car, loads dishwasher, cleans the cars, mops floors, etc. He does things as and when they need doing, so do I, so whoever does it, does it.

He also sorts out financial stuff like remortgaging or getting best deals on investments and I tend to pay bills, organise holidays, plan our lives, etc.

FWIW my 12 year old ds can also cook, clean, wash clothes, iron, etc. and would already be perfectly capable of looking after himself if he needed to. He cooks for us occasionally and in fact cooked for 8 people a couple of weeks ago.

I think you could sort out 1, 2 and 3 on the list by talking with him again. Maybe you could make a list together of all the jobs and divide them up? Try to make him understand that this is about respect, equality and love.

I would do two things:

1. Work out how much time you spend hoing all the housework and cooking, etc. You can break this down into sections if you like ie 40 mins hoovering 2 x a week or whatever (you can tell I don't live in a showhome!). Add this to the hours you do at work. I guarantee that you will easily work the same hours as him, if not many more, if you calculate work this way.

Show him this, do not let him poopoo your point by possibly saying that anything unpaid is not 'real' work. Paid work is only one fraction of what work a couple do to make their home, family and lives work.

Let him see how much you actually do, no doubt more than him. Then say this has to change, there has to be a balance.

2. Then work out how to make thing equal or at least more equal. Brook no arguments or What Ifs.

I would add a 3) If he refuses or smokescreens or anything else negative, ask him why it's acceptable that you do more than him.

But you have made things tuen out this way. You have to change yourself if you want others to change. Start small; don't call him for meals, eat and let his go cold. Make it clear that your kids have flown the nest, you are not his mother too. If you just do it all because it's easier, it's the same way as people let their kids get away with murder. Good luck!

Been married a bit longer than you but with children still living at home.

We don't have set tasks, it's dependent on who's got more time as we both work hard. Both self-employed, so sometimes my hours are greater than his and vice versa. We've always regarded household chores as shared though, so we cook together, clear away together, change beds together etc. He tends to do all the washing and ironing for all of us and I do most of the cooking, but he'll chop and peel while I'm doing the fancy stuff. We're usually nattering away and doing simultaneous tasks in the same room. The kids are also expected to pitch in and help.

I think the thing you don't seem to want to discuss is the real problem here - your relationship. He sounds strangely detached from you. I mean what's he doing while you're cooking and you have to call him for his dinner? When do you get to talk?

Also, why is his diet restricted just because yours is? Does he want to eat that plainly every night or would he enjoy other food? It could be that all the fun has gone out of food for him at home, because he has to eat plain and healthy stuff every night. I love to cook but would lose any motivation to, if our diet was that restrictive and well...dull! Is this solely to do with your food intolerances or are you very weight/health conscious?

The main thing that struck me though was that you said you'd told him you are unhappy with the way things are, yet he hasn't changed. Usually this means that the other person isn't happy either, but won't express that directly and uses a covert method of registering dissatisfaction. is he a great talker? Does he share his feelings and deepest thoughts with you?

I think housework is a political issue in most M/F relationships and the allocation of tasks in your house sounds old-fashioned and sexist. I think these struggles are also as much a barometer of what's going on in the marriage as the old favorites, such as sex and affection. I don't think you sound that close as a couple and as though you resent eachother, but the fight is being played out in a diversionary arena.

Some of the things you've posted really mystify me, maybe. Here's one:-

he goes ot the supermarket every weekend anyway to buy wine for himself. He asks if we need any shopping but he won't actually offer to choose what to cook for dinner.

Do you say "Yes, you'll need to shop for the dinners you're cooking tonight and tomorrow"?

I'm not in a relationship at the moment, but my parents are in a similar stage of life to you, I think.

DM: does all cooking, meal planning, sorting laundry, loading washing machine, handwashing clothes, buying presents and birthday cards for relatives, mowing the lawn, organising social life, changing beds.

DF: does all cleaning (hoovering, washing kitchen floor by hand a couple of times a week, window cleaning, polishing and dusting, cleaning bathrooms and toilets, wipes down shower every day, cleans kitchen counters and cooker every day, cleans oven, cleans door handles and surfaces that get handled a lot), car maintenance, diy, financial planning, taking rubbish out, cleaning carpets.

Things they do together or equally: putting washing on line, bringing it in, ironing, putting washing away, gardening, food shopping, making bread, loading dishwasher, unloading dishwasher, handwashing stuff that can't go in dishwasher, general tidying.

The thing is, my DF is not really a feminist as such, but he would be horrified at the thought of not splitting the housework jointly because he loves and respects my DM, and doesn't see it as her job. And he can definitely see dirt and acts on it without any prompting.

My OH would love not to do anything LOL unfortunately for him he has the dishes, floors, and changing the beds YEP all the jobs I can't stand we share the cat trays and jointly do the shopping and washing although I have to rehang the clothes lol

He can iron and I have taught him Spag bol, and a Chicken Korma so DSD doesnt just get frozen kiddie crap when Im nightshift

I was really ill with food poisoning for about 3 days (him and first chicken curry) and he surprised me by doing everything bless him and looking after me

I think you need to stop doing stuff for him and tell him why. Stop washing his clothes. Stop cooking for him.

He has things the way he wants and you are letting him cling to that view because you pick up the bits he doesn't do, e.g. the pans.

I saw a counsellor for a while who encouraged me not to gloss over irritations with my partner and do things he had let slip etc but to stand my ground. Has really helped change things here. For ages I had whinged about stuff but then done it anyway. As soon as I stopped and he felt rather than heard and dismissed how upset I was, he got it.

I haven't been married very long and our issues were not housework related (our relationship is very equal on this front), but just being bloody awkward worked for me!

Cold calling, networking and online research are part of your job.

They are not a hobby, and you (presumably) factor them into the fees you charge.

When counting up the hours you've always done count all the time you spend on work, not just your billable hours.

He's not earning his company money every second he's at work.

Sorry, that's an aside, but possibly a significant one.

I'm going to tell you what my Dad did while he was still working FT in a stressful job. My mother doesn't do paid work, but does a lot of looking after both their mothers (Dad does more with his mother now he has more time). He is 59.

Shares cooking (does the roast on Sundays)
Shares unloading/loading the dishwasher
Mops floors 1xweek

How can he have any pride in himself as an independent adult if he needs you to look after him in such basic ways?

It's really quite pathetic.

Start with the easy stuff

He should 1. Take out bins 2. Unload the dishwasher every morning (I am assuming you run yours at night like we do) 3. Bung on some washing during the week (show him how if he doesn't know). He can even do that before work.

Tell him it's non negotiable. Without inspiring the wrath of the feminists, I've found that most men I lived with preferred the 'manual' type tasks like those rather than cleaning ones.

What my Dp does?
Things that are his full responsability

• hoovering the house
• ironing
• gardening, servicing the car, most DIY jobs.

Things that are my responsability only

• food shopping and menu planning
• organizing holidays
• dealing with illnesses of the dcs
• dealing dcs related stuff ie school trips, forms etc...

Things that we do together

• well all the rest in different proportions depending of the days. Some are more 'my' responsability (eg cooking dinner) but Dp will pitch in wo a grumble or decide to do it istead of me wo prompting (eg cooking during the weekend).

Some are more his responsability (eg washing up the pots, cleasning kitchen floor...)

Perhaps other people could tell me what their DHs do?

Here are splits for three couples in my family. We all seem reasonably happy with our lot except where the issues are caused by personal preferences differing - e.g. one partner wants a tidier house than the other. Who does which precise job seems less important than finding a balance that works for you.

I would say that I think it is vital that anyone can do the basics of cooking and laundry as you never know when you may need to take over due to illness. Both of my grandfathers had to look after themselves for 10+ years due to bereavement/illness. Jobs like DIY and cleaning can be outsourced but even then it's good to have an idea of what's involved.

Pre-child:
Me (30s, full-time work): all laundry, most of the washing-up, most cleaning, assisting with DIY, any mending/sewing, most of the tidying/decluttering.
DH (30s, full-time work): all cooking, all food ordering, DIY, assisting with cleaning and decluttering (e.g. hoovering when I was heavily pregnant).
Whoever sees it needs doing: putting out bins/recycling.
Things done together: financial planning, ordering birthday presents.
Things that only get done when really needed: ironing, gardening.

On maternity leave we are continuing to do the above, but with a bit more flexibility depending on who is more tired - e.g. DH will put a load of laundry on if I haven't managed, and I'll make sure he gets a lie in when he has a lot of work deadlines. When I go back to work (full-time with DD at nursery) we will probably hire a cleaner so that we can both spend more time with DD when not at work, and we'll discuss rebalancing the remaining housework as well.

My parents:
DM (60s, SAHM, then lots of voluntary work): all cooking, washing up and laundry, some cleaning, most ironing.
DF (60s, worked FT, now retired, also doing lots of voluntary work): cooking, laundry and ironing when DM is unable (mostly through back problems), all hoovering, most of the cleaning. He also does the gardening, bins, car maintenance, financial planning and DIY - and has always done these while working.
Things done together: household organisation and buying presents.
They are still rebalancing - DF prefers a tidier house than DM and so is doing more to make this happen than he did when at work.

My parents-in-law:
DMiL (60s, worked FT, now retired, lots of interests): cooking, financial planning and cleaning, her own ironing, some gardening, bread making, all the household organisational planning, ordering presents.
DFiL (60s, works FT, due to retire soon): some cooking/baking, his own ironing, a lot of gardening, DIY, most of the decluttering.
Whoever sees it needs doing: putting out bins, recycling.
I think they share loading and unloading the dishwasher but I only see what happens when we stay - at which point we all help and the only rule is that the person who cooked gets to opt out of washing-up/loading the dishwasher! They had a cleaner when DMiL worked full-time. It'll be interesting to see what happens when DFiL retires - I hope he does more cooking as he is good at it!

okay everyone. I may have to cut this short because he's around but here goes. I'll try to answer your questions.

My work- I don't want to out myself but it's creative. When I say cold calling I mean I often submit material which is rejected but I have to keep doing this in order to have some success. So I could work 24/7. I have some on going projects but a lot of what I do is trying to secure work.

So roughly 3 hrs a day is spent on prrojects and thes rest on trying to obtain more.

I also have other regular work which takes up 2 whole afternoons.

At the moment, I do this:
all hoovering & dusting
all cleaning of bathrooms
all planning of meals and shopping- online once a week plus a trip to the supermarket too. (I like to do this so I can have abetter choice.,)
all laundry but not his ironing
most of the gardening but not cutting lawns.

he does
putting out bins
bill paying online
DIY- as and when but has to be forced to decorate- has no real interest

We didn't marry until we were both almost 30 so he had looked after himself. At work he has a full meal at lunchtime so he could live with a snack when he gets home but I can't. I like a meal in the evening.

We had an agreement after a big bust up 6 months back that he would cook 1 meal at a weekend as a sart. he has now stopped doing this. When I remind him he just moans and says yes, he needs to learn how to cook.

He disappears off the the pc or whatver when I am cooking.

For these weekend meals, have you set him up with ingredients / a recipe? Do you involve him in the ordering?

On the occasions when I cook I tend to do simple meals like pasta or noodles - e.g. a pasta bake with fried pancetta/grated cheese/shop-bought sauce and then some green beans, or noodles with tofu and aubergine. If I know I will be cooking then I usually agree with DH when he does the food order so I get what I'll need.