Should my DH do some housework?

[maybegoingwest]

I am fed up. Been married for ages and DCs now just left home. We had a very traditional set up with DH earning 80% of our income and working long hours, so I did all domestic stuff and cooking.
Now though my work is picking up and I expect DH to share the housework load. He doesn't. He can't cook and although he says he will try to learn, he doesn't. He does no cleaning at all. My standards are not high - believe me- but I exepct him to contribute something to the running of the place, bar putting out the wheelie bins and cutting the lawn.

If I ask him to do something he will- but never ever offers. So I feel a nag. Have stopped ironing his clothes.
Any ideas?

I do think you need a rota or your oh needs to come up with the money for a cleaner.

At least for cooking, he should have set days, so you just sit down and remind him of it.

You could both sit at the beginning of the week and draw up a menu together, so he knows what he can cook.
And go to the supermarket together.
If you cook he should at least do the dishes.

As for cleaning, it might work best to do it when he is at home and you divide what needs to be done, say, hoover or do the bathrooms and the kitchen, for example.

And make the bed together.

This way you can get together in a routine and it could be a shared time for you both.

Ps - didn't you post about this a while ago?

Scatterpot no, I don't involve him. But the freezer is always stocked with things that he could use- chicken fillets, fish, etc and vegies he could use for something.

He will come into the kitchen and ask what can he do to help- this is a new development. However, he is so useless that it drives me mad, TBH. if I ask him to make a green salad, for example, he will take the lettuce out and then look at me and say "What else?" or if I ask him to prepare some veg he'll ask "How many carrots" or if it's broccoli he tends to cut it into tiny pieces- totally different from anything he is ever served up by me.

I think one issue is that I work from home, so need a certain level of cleanliness and tidyness simply because I am here all day. he is out from 8-7 most days, so he simply doesn't see it.

The problem that I have is that he doesn't know what needs doing. Before we married he had his own house. It was a LDR, we met only at weekends, so he would rush round and clean etc before I arrived for the weekend. But left to his own devices, he would leave everything for weeks or months I think until it was really grubby.

The crux of it all is that he doesn't see housework or cooking as a joint responsibility. He sees it as mine because I work fewer hours. This just makes me feel like a skivvy.

Luejii- yes I did. There was some improvement for a few weeks but then he slipped back.

Well now we have a little more information, it sounds like he is not prepared to change.

I agreee with Badinage. This is about your relationship. It doesn't really matter what the 'problem' is if you cannot talk about it and come to an agreement as equals, it says volumes about your marriage

He doesn't take you seriously. He doesn't want to treat you as an equal. He is taking you for a mug. And you are letting him.

It won't change unless you change it. It's time for some tough talking. If you can't get through to him, how about couples counselling?

Put your foot down-what a lazy git!!!
He should be able to cook a simple spag bol or lasgane surely.
Cant cook wont cook sounds like any excuse is an excuse with him.
If you are working and he is working then the housework should be shared

From your last post it does sound like he is making a bit of an effort to help. It sounds like he doesn't have a clue what to do if he's asking you how many carrots to cut up. Does he feel under confident and wants you to help him? Or is he being deliberately stupid?

If I were you I think I would TELL him he is cooking on the night he goes to the supermarket to get his wine. Just let him get on with it, let him buy and cooks whatever he feels comfortable with.

If he's not very experienced at preparing a meal, then he will ask these questions. Next time he asks, tell him exactly what to get out of the fridge, and you might even have to do this a number of times. But we don't expect youngsters in primary school to remember sums or spellings from only one attempt. This learning (or re-learning, ad he has lived on his own) is no different.

Make cooking an activity you do together, not solo. It makes it more interesting, and he's learning at your side. Then, while he's filling the dishwasher later, you can deal with some laundry, so he's then not expecting you to take over what is one of his roles just because he's done a bit of chopping veg, prepping a salad.

If you knew me, you'd know I was not a wimp- I am a pretty feisty lady- hence my annoyance at all of this. He knows that if he doesn't change then the marriage will be over.

We can and do talk.

I don't want to drip feed, and I didn't say this before as it didn't seem relevant- but we had a 3 month separation last year. I came back and he promised to change. When I was away our son was still at home and he took over the cooking. We obviously talked a lot when I came back.

The changes I made were:

1. Not doing his washing- I might throw in some shirts or undies if I am washing my own things, but if no t then his are left. I don't iron his clothes now or put them away.

1. I asked him to agree to cook once at a weekend. That was his only "job" foodwise.

To answer some of your points- if I ask him to buy food so he can cook at a weekend he will. But why should I need to tell him? He is an adult and he knows that was our agreement.

Housework- if I ask him to hoover the stairs then he would. But he doesn't "see" they need doing.

He knows I am cross today and has gone out to the gym and said he will buy food for tonight when he is out.

May, I think as you've said you separated last year and he agreed to cook etc then I think he is taking advantage.

If you feel like giving him one more chance then I would write down a list of everything you expect him to do. That would include specific instructions like "Hoover the stairs 2x a week". That means he has absolutely no excuse. It is all written down what he should do and when.

I can understand why you feel you shouldn't have to point all this out. I would feel that way too.

This is about your relationship then.

It doesn't sound as though you've got any respect for him - the way you describe him as 'useless' and clueless about quantities. No-one feels that strongly about stuff like that and talks about her partner that way unless contempt has set in. He doesn't sound like he respects you much either.

Your first posts said there was nothing deeper going on and this wasn't a divorcing issue, yet now you say you've already separated because of it.
Did you separate because of this or were there other reasons? If it was because of this and this alone, why did you come back on a promise of change? You must know that if he was going to change, he would have done that in the 3 months in order to win you back. Yet you came back even though that hadn't happened. That must be more about other reasons then - either your new life wasn't what you'd thought it would be or you were resigned to nothing changing and putting up with it. If he'd wanted you back because of love and the loss of you as a person, he would have changed wouldn't he? Maybe he realises you didn't come back for love reasons either, but won't tell you that directly and prefers to comunicate that in this silent rebellion.

Badinage- you said this: You must know that if he was going to change, he would have done that in the 3 months in order to win you back. Yet you came back even though that hadn't happened.

I'm sorry but I don't follow this. How could I know whether he had changed or not when I wasn't in the house? He promised to be different and has been making some effort- but not as much as I'd like..

My leaving was not simply about housework. We have resolved lots of the other issues. I disagree that my saying he is "useless" at cooking show no respect. It's a simple statement of fact.

You said your son was there and did all the cooking. I assumed you knew this because you were in touch with your son while you were separated if not your husband? Or did you not speak to either of them while you were away?

If as you say you didn't know whether he had changed because you weren't there to see it and you were getting no information either, why did you go back?

Re weekend cooking, I would give him say 6 different meal options earlier in the week (with recipe if necessary) and ask him which he wants to cook so that you can get the ingredients fresh when you shop.

Re the housework its a hard one - unless you can, for instance, agree with him that you both spend an hour doing different jobs necessary in the house on a Saturday morning (or whenever is appropriate timings)

Alternatively, he needs to start paying you a decent wage as a housekeeper on top of what you earn from your 'work' and see how the finances pan out at that stage. Perhaps he should take a sandwich into work rather than pay for a big hot meal and then perhaps you could get some help for a couple of hours a week and he might be more inclined to think about cooking midweek too.

We had occasional contact - but not of the kind where you discussed what is being eaten for dinner and who was cokking it! I certainly didn't discuss that with my son or DH.

I answered your other point in my previous post- the intention to change was there.

I get the feeling there's more that you're not saying, so it's difficult to advise without the whole story. You've now said there were other issues in your marriage that have now been resolved. I think if things were that bad that you left and you left because of those and those alone, there's no way you'd have gone back with no evidence of change and just a promise that they would. Normally someone leaves after years of false promises so they won't go back on the strength of another one, unless of course that wasn't the only reason they left. Likewise, it seems unlikely that the only reason you went back was because you genuinely thought he would change. He hasn't has he? I can't think why you think the other issues whatever they were have been resolved either because calling someone you love 'useless' about ANYTHING is strong stuff and the way you describe your relationship makes it sound lonely, silent and resentful. In no way 'resolved'.

So you're saying that everything else is just fine and dandy but this issue remains. Yet you also say he knows if he doesn't change your marriage is over. If you'd really resolved your other problems, this wouldn't be happening and there'd be no need for that ultimatum. Because like I said in my first post, it doesn't look like this fight is about housework alone. It's about the relationship itself and your feelings for eachother.

I'm sorry Badinage but you are barking up the wrong tree.
Maybe you behave differently with your family but in my life it's quite normal to call someone "useless" at something when they are! It's not that strong, it's hardly like saying he is an F...ing c...t is it?

He'd say I was useless at DIY or car maintenance and I am- no big deal.

I didn't leave just because of housework. It was one of some other issues we had. Without going into detail- and I don't want to- they are much better.

This is one issue that perists.

The basic facts are that he thinks he has made an effort but I think there is still a long way to go. This is because he has no idea of the housework I manage to fit in around my work from home.

I'd be grateful if you would not try to dig for something that is not there- and make assumptions that are not accurate, which means I keep having to come back and explain that you are not right.

"oh pleeeeeease Limited- don't start reading stuff that is not there. After 27 years of marriage I am allowed to be pissed off at this but not saying I want a divorce!"

"He knows that if he doesn't change then the marriage will be over."

Both those posts were from you as the thread starter. So it seems reasonable to think there are contradictions going on and more conflict in the relationship than you first said. But I don't think you want advice really so will not come back.

I agree badinage, I don't think OP wants advice, just to moan.

However, he is so useless that it drives me mad If my DH suddenly expected me to do something I had never done before because he did it, and reacted like that I'd not bother to do it again.

maybe you used the car maintenace example yourself. Say he asked you to check the oil and he reacted like you described the salad incident, how would you feel?

Look- I'm actually starting to feel really pissed off at some posters.

There are people here who persist in looking more deeply than is needed.

I have been reasonably open when I said that there were other issues that are now resolved. I don't want to say more than that because it's not relevant.

I asked what I thought were simple questions: if you are in your 50s and have always done most of the domestic stuff when DCs were at home, how do you convince your DH that they need to pull their weight more when your workload increases. And I asked how other couples share the chores.

Yes, it's part of a bigger picture but DH has made a lot of effort in other areas that we were struggling with.

Going back to the question over me and DIY or checking the oil in my car. well, I can check the oil- god, I didn't marry until I was 30 and had a car for 12 years before then- looked after by me.
But if I didn't know what to do I'd find out or I'd take it to a garage. DH can either learn to cook or buy us a meal that just needs a bit of heating up. it's not that hard- it's his lack of effort that's the issue.

Help However, he is so useless that it drives me mad If my DH suddenly expected me to do something I had never done before because he did it, and reacted like that I'd not bother to do it again.

we are talking about hoovering or making a simple meal. Not rocket science.

So you'd sulk if someone was surprised that you didn't know how to make a green salad? When you'd eaten them for years and years....

I recommend Wifework by Susan Maushart. Read it yourself and get your DH to read it.

I have slightly different circumstances to you because my DC are still at home although they are more or less grown up now. We've been using rotas very successfully since October. I worked out what things need doing daily - laundry, washing up, cooking - they all go on one weekly rota and we choose a certain number of 'slots' each. Cooks have to decide what they are cooking, check ingredients and add anything they need to the shopping list. We have another rota for weekly cleaning - we each clean one room a week, on rotation.

However you organise things, you should be aiming for equal leisure time.

Good luck, I think resentment over housework on its own is enough to cause major relationship problems.

OK, maybe, I think he's putting one over on you. Whatever the compromises he made last time you split, he's set on holding back at least something. For a competent adult with experience of managing their own household, he's playing dumb -> passive aggression.

I imagine this is why you feel so very resentful and somewhat trapped. I say 'trapped' because - without the resentment - it would be logical to answer "Do we need anything from the supermarket?" with "Yes, whatever you're cooking this weekend." You feel you shouldn't have to do that, and you're technically right, but it's a matter of extremely fine detail. You seem to have lost your assertive abilities when it comes to this domestic battleground. Same with muddy footprints on the hall: in a couple without underlying fires of resentment, it's perfectly acceptable to say "Er, look at your footprints! Mop it over, will you?" You can't because you shouldn't - again correctly, but only the underlying issues prevent you.

So let's look at this resentment. He appears to resent whatever compromises he made. In a way, he seems to be punishing you by making you work extra hard for his co-operation. Is this emblematic of what happened before? Did YOU work hard to gain his agreement? Does it feel as though he reckons he 'gave' 90% of what you asked, but won't now yield the other 10%?

I think your resentment is stronger than you're acknowledging. If it weren't so, you'd feel much less angry about the need to prompt his stated co-operation. He promised to do these things but he's being obstructive in the way he carries them out (and doesn't carry them out). He's making you work and you, naturally, object.

When you returned following your recent crisis, was it one of your conditions that he'd pull his weight around the family home? If it was, no wonder you're angry. How much of his promise to you do you feel he's kept? Not just over the domestic stuff, but in total. You don't have to say what the rest of the promise was about.

Also, did you make promises? How's that going?

Garlic- you are right in some way thank you.

Part of my not asking him is because I am testing him. ie how long will he carry on walking over muddy foot prints before he notices and cleans up.

Same for the supermarket- I've done the "yes we need whatever you are cooking " line before. It lasted for a few weeks, then I thought he would know for the next time. he didn't- or chooses tto wriggle out. It's as if he needs to be told every week "You are cooking one meal this weekend", or "You have to do x,y, z chores." as if he were a child and needed telling.

I am not asking him to make a cordon bleu meal. Egg and chips would be fine. Just making the effort would be fine.

Today- after we had words last night- he has offered to cook tonight and has shopped. But he makes such an enormous deal out of it- saying he doesn't know what to buy or how to cook it- and makes me feel that I ought to be pleased when in fact all I want it a more equal set up.

yes, one of the conditions of my coming back was that he would help more on the domestic front. I changed careers two years back and am doing well- but I do need to keep plugging away at what I do, which doesn't always bring in money, but I am forging contacts- all very time consuming.

We can't get into a regular day for him cooking etc as he is away with work at least one night a week- sometimes more - up to a week at a time.

To answer your final point- he was desperate for me to come back and try again ( and not just for meals or cleaning.)
I didn't have to make any huge promises. I did promise to take more interest in his work. He thought I wasn't interested but I was- I thought he didn't like talking about his work, so didn't ask.

You see when we married, I thought I was marrying a "new man"- he'd lived o his own and coped for manyyears. I had too- so wanted this egalitarean marriage.

What we ended up with was a very traditional set up with his career taking priority and me being chief child carer and domestic servant.

Now the children have gone, and I am able to focus more on work, I want a more equal set up.

I think you have had some good suggestions.

He used not to do housework unless he had to before you got married, and he continued afterwords.
Not very surprising.

I think you will have to train him a bit, but you can't expect him to become adept at doing housework if he has never been.
I'm sure you could make Saturday or Sunday his day to cook, and postpone or advance another day if he can't do it then.

You also have to be less "controlling" about how he does things. Does it matter how big the carrots are?

And setting one morning or afternoon to take care of the major house tasks would create habits on him and you may eventually settle on a set if tasks that he already knows he has to do.

And do ask him to clean his muddy footprints. :) hand him the mop so he can't postpone it.

The trick, IMO, is to create routines and habits rather than expect him to suddenly change the way he has lived for 50 years.