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Original poster

Legal advice for my sister (and a good stern talking to is probably needed too. Not too stern though, she is not on MN coz she thinks we're all bullies)

79 replies

D0oinMeCleanin · 25/04/2012 21:53

She goes on Baby World

But I will printing this thread out for her. She needs legal advice and some good advice and some postive been there and out the other side far happier stories.

The story is her DP has thrown her out of the house. They are unmarried but have four children together. The mortgage is both names. He believes the house work is solely her responsibility because he works and she doesn't (because looking after four five including him children f/t is easy, innit?)

He wants custody of the children and has requested that she sign the house over to him (it's negative equity anyhow, so selling it won't gain her anything and she cannot afford the mortgage payments alone) Where does she stand if she does sign it over, wrt housing benefits and council houses and voluntary homelessness etc?

He has taken her key and she is not allowed in the house unless he is there and must knock before she comes in.

This happened last night. Her 4yo son heard all this and sneaked down out of bed to open the door for her because he was worried about her Sad

She is staying at my parents atm. He has told her the children are not allowed to stay there. If she takes them there again he will report her to SS because my parents have three (non agressive dogs) there would also be an over crowding issue, but it would only be a temporary solution anyway until she finds her own place.

She is more than welcome to stay here but we also ahve dogs although ours are slightly calmer and would have an even bigger over crowding issue (I could kick DH out to his mums for a while and she could sleep in my bed with me. The children would have to top and tail in bunks with mine and the baby has a travel cot)

At the moment the children are with him and she is allowed to see them after school and is allowed to provide childcare when is working Hmm Angry

He has let the eldest come to my parents to stay tonight because she was so upset about her mum not being with her. My sister is a very devoted mum and never leaves her children.

This is the third time this has happened. Last time he called the police on her for assaulting him (i.e defending herself when he was trying to snatch the baby from her arms, he was pissed up.) the police saw through his story and no charges were brought against her or him, but they did have a chat with him about his behaviour in drink and did remove him from the house that night. They were fine with my sister. No report to SS was made afaik.

That is the un emotive version. I can't put down in print my feelings on the matter. There aren't enough cuss words in the world to cover it.

Where does she go from here? She is considering having a chat with him to try and solve things Confused like the last two times this happened.

OP posts:
Original poster
D0oinMeCleanin · 25/04/2012 21:54

Oh sorry. I missed a paragraph out. He's kicked her out because she is not doing enough in the house Hmm

OP posts:
thisisyesterday · 25/04/2012 21:58

omg

she needs a solicitor asap.

i would also call the police about not being allowed into her own home, and not being given access to her children.
maybe SS too?
sorry, i have no actual experience of this but couldnt not post.

i actually feel sick reading this. your poor sister and those poor children :(

nkf · 25/04/2012 21:58

She needs a lawyer. They need to be in court asap to arrange a proper interim arrangement while divorce/formal separation is discussed. She needs it tomorrow. Everything else is faff. Good luck.

Original poster
D0oinMeCleanin · 25/04/2012 22:06

Yes I feel sick for them too. I was almost in tears for my neice when she was clinging to her mum begging her not to take her home to her dad and leave her Sad

They were at my mum's today for my birthday party that was arranged months ago. He did allow that, but possibly only because he knows he would have to deal with crying children who were looking forward to a party. This is the last time they're allowed at my parents without him calling SS about the dogs Hmm

We have advised to see a family solicitor but not as early as tomorrow. I can see why she needs to though. Atm she has nowhere she can live with the children without overcrowding being an issue.

OP posts:
MoaningMinnieRisesAgain · 25/04/2012 22:10

Overcrowding is only a proper issue for social housing IIRC, you can live as tightly squeezed in as you like in a house you own.

Sorry I don't know enough about the other stuff but she needs a lawyer or a hit man ASAP. Maybe ring Shelter too? I don't see that he can legally not let her into the house if it's in joint names

mummytime · 25/04/2012 22:11

SS are not going to remove children just because of dogs, unless there was evidence of the dogs being ag danger to the children. SS have better things to do. She needs to get legal advice and call his bluff.

MoaningMinnieRisesAgain · 25/04/2012 22:12

I honestly believe SS won't give a shiny shite about them living temporarily with dogs, unless they have a severe allergy to them. Who hasn't got a dog or two, plus children - they wouldn't do anything.

3littlefrogs · 25/04/2012 22:13

If I were your parents I would be putting the dogs in kennels and rescuing your sister and her children. I would also be contacting the police and SS about his behaviour, particularly his drinking.

I agree she needs legal advice and to contact Womens' Aid tomorrow.

The children are at risk - he sounds mentally unstable.

Original poster
D0oinMeCleanin · 25/04/2012 22:18

We can't afford to kennel the dogs although I suppose they could come here or mine could go there. One is a rescue and is always welcome back at her previous foster home.

I don't think he would physically harm the childen. He does love them and is very good with them, normally. I won't use the old cliche of he's a good dad because a good dad would not treat the mother of his children in this way.

I don't think he sees that he is mentally harming the children. WA is a very good idea.

I will give him his due in that he does not drink often and rarely goes for nights out but when he does drink it is to excess and he loses control (although is not normally violent and never violent towards the children)

OP posts:
maytheoddsbeeverinyourfavour · 25/04/2012 22:19

He cannot dictate wether she can live in a house in joint names, and he certainly cannot decide when she sees her children

If she is a sahm she is their main carer so the children need to be with her

She needs to stop listening to him and do what is best for her children, if she stays out of the house without them that could become the 'status quo' and the courts could order it to continue

She needs to get her children and deal with everything else afterwards

Spero · 25/04/2012 22:20

Go to a solicitor now. Is there any way she can take over the mortgage? Could possibly get an occupation order, he sounds extremely abusive. She should NOT let this situation persist for another day.

Seabright · 25/04/2012 22:21

A bit of practical advice about the mortgage- you can't just "sign in over". The mortgage company would have to agree, and if it's in negative equity they aren't going to release either of them from their obligations. I am a property lawyer, so am happy to give advice on that side of things, but I'm rusty on matrimonial law.

She needs legal advice and quickly. She sounds like she has been brainwashed into believing all the crap he says is true

UpperFuckingCrusty · 25/04/2012 22:21

SS wouldn't give a fuck about the dogs, and the overcrowding would probably not concern them much either tbh (though it might get them to help your sister get housed).

Can she not just take the kids and go to your parents house?

maytheoddsbeeverinyourfavour · 25/04/2012 22:21

I am pretty shocked she has left without her children and that she goes in to provide 'childcare' for him, why is she giving in to him? Is she scared of him?

3littlefrogs · 25/04/2012 22:22

The dogs are probably fine with the children, but if they are not there, he doesn't have the ammunition to threaten your sister.

It is cruel to lock the mother of his children out of her own home, when the children are crying for her. The fact that he is doing this shows that he is not functioning in a normal way. Could he be developing a mental illness?

thisisyesterday · 25/04/2012 22:22

she really does need to get legal advice asap

it's one of those things that could potentially be used against her (they can and will use anything)... well Mrs X, if you were so keen to get your children back why did you want z number of days before seeking legal advice?

forget about living arrangements for the moment.
i would imagine that an interim order would place her in the house and order him to leave, or if it came to it she would be housed in temporary accomodation WITH the kids. it isn't ideal, but it's better than just sitting around hoping he'll change his mind

Whendoigetadayoff · 25/04/2012 22:23

Your sister should not leave house. If she does she starts to lose rights over kids as well as house. This is really important. She either stands ground and stays in house or she walks out WITH kids. If he says no to letting her in she should phone the police. It's her house with her kids and he is in wrong for not letting her in. Go with her if need be for moral support. Alternatively she should leave with kids doesn't matter about overcrowding. and for gods sake get her to a lawyer.

AdelaideAussie · 25/04/2012 22:24

She needs to get hold of the DC asap and keep hold of them, oh and go to a solicitor and go to the council and make a homeless application !!

Springforward · 25/04/2012 22:24

She needs advice from a solicitor specialising in Family law, urgently. If money is a problem, some firms will do a free 30 minute consultation in the first instance.

My DSis is seperated from her H, and she can't stop him coming into the house because he's not off the deeds/ mortgage yet - so think may be worth trying the police, especially under the circumstances. He isn't sounding very rational, to say the least.

What on earth is the thing with dogs about? I can't imagine why SS would be bothered about that?

In her shoes, while "allowed" to care for her children while he's at work, I'm afraid I would just get the DCs out, then call the police when he turns up to challenge her.

izzyizin · 25/04/2012 22:25

He's 'thrown her out'???!!! And won't let her take the dc???!!! Who the fuck does he think he is? The twunt needs his arse kicking from here to Land's End.

If your dsis is jointly named on the mortage she has every right to be in her own home including the right to break in if she can't get in any other way.

If she gets back into the house via the front door, I would suggest that she calls the police if he kicks off when she refuses to leave or if he fails to return her keys - that way the police will remove him or she can ask them to remove her and the dc to a place of safety.

For the longer term, she needs urgent advice from a solicitor who specialises in family law

In the short term, if she can't bear to be in the same house as him, there's nothing wrong with temporary overcrowding. Jeez, in the last century it wasn't unusual for huge families and their domestic animals to live in 2up/2down houses or overcrowded tenement flats.

I seem to recall that you planned to leave your h not so long ago. It occurs to me that if you kick him out to stay with his dm and move your sister in, you can kill 2 birds with one stone when your sister's problem is resolved and you refuse to let him return.

Maybe you can find a family lawyer who'll do a 2 for the price of 1 deal Grin

thisisyesterday · 25/04/2012 22:26

or change the locks and not let him back in.

is he likely to be violent?

malevolentpsammead · 25/04/2012 22:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ivykaty44 · 25/04/2012 22:31

He is a bully and the best way to deal with bullies is to stand your ground and call his bluff

Tell him to call SS first thing in the morning and let him make a pratt of himself

LulaPalooza · 25/04/2012 22:31

Agree wholeheartedly with the advice that your sister should get legal advice ASAP.

It would be helpful for your sister to have clear information as to legal ownership of the property. If the mortgage is in joint names then the property should be registered at the Land Registry in joint names too. You can do a search of the Land Registry and get copies of the title documents which will show who owns the property and whether or not they own different sized shares in the property (I am trying really hard not to use legalese so hope this makes sense).

A solicitor can do this but it is cheaper to do it yourself. You can go online to
The Land Registry and pay a small admin fee.

I am so sorry your sister and her children are going through this. It's great that she has a lovely sister like you to support her. I think your posts are very measured.

Good luck to your sister xx

DaenerysTargaryen · 25/04/2012 22:31

Oh how sad! If I was her I'd take the dc and all their possessions to your parents house next time she's providing 'childcare' Hmm she is their main carer and that counts for A LOT legally.

Best of luck to her, she REALLY needs to be pro active about this, she has more rights than he does.