Legal advice for my sister (and a good stern talking to is probably needed too. Not too stern though, she is not on MN coz she thinks we're all bullies)

[D0oinMeCleanin]

She goes on Baby World

But I will printing this thread out for her. She needs legal advice and some good advice and some postive been there and out the other side far happier stories.

The story is her DP has thrown her out of the house. They are unmarried but have four children together. The mortgage is both names. He believes the house work is solely her responsibility because he works and she doesn't (because looking after four five including him children f/t is easy, innit?)

He wants custody of the children and has requested that she sign the house over to him (it's negative equity anyhow, so selling it won't gain her anything and she cannot afford the mortgage payments alone) Where does she stand if she does sign it over, wrt housing benefits and council houses and voluntary homelessness etc?

He has taken her key and she is not allowed in the house unless he is there and must knock before she comes in.

This happened last night. Her 4yo son heard all this and sneaked down out of bed to open the door for her because he was worried about her

She is staying at my parents atm. He has told her the children are not allowed to stay there. If she takes them there again he will report her to SS because my parents have three (non agressive dogs) there would also be an over crowding issue, but it would only be a temporary solution anyway until she finds her own place.

She is more than welcome to stay here but we also ahve dogs although ours are slightly calmer and would have an even bigger over crowding issue (I could kick DH out to his mums for a while and she could sleep in my bed with me. The children would have to top and tail in bunks with mine and the baby has a travel cot)

At the moment the children are with him and she is allowed to see them after school and is allowed to provide childcare when is working

He has let the eldest come to my parents to stay tonight because she was so upset about her mum not being with her. My sister is a very devoted mum and never leaves her children.

This is the third time this has happened. Last time he called the police on her for assaulting him (i.e defending herself when he was trying to snatch the baby from her arms, he was pissed up.) the police saw through his story and no charges were brought against her or him, but they did have a chat with him about his behaviour in drink and did remove him from the house that night. They were fine with my sister. No report to SS was made afaik.

That is the un emotive version. I can't put down in print my feelings on the matter. There aren't enough cuss words in the world to cover it.

Where does she go from here? She is considering having a chat with him to try and solve things like the last two times this happened.

Friggin hell, she needs to kick him out, claim income support and the DWP will pay the mortgage indefinitely, the interest part anyway, enough to keep the children in their home.

Jeez, it gets worse.

She's left 2 under 6's and a 1 year old with him? WTF is she thinking? She has to get her children away from this evil fucker.

It sounds as if he's really done a number on her. FGS get her onto Women's Aid as a matter of urgency.

And P.S., unless there is violence, the police will not be remotely interested. This is a civil, not criminal, matter.

Izzy, she is frightened and has been so bullied and abused that she thinks she has no power.

I know it is frustrating, but I think the OP is right in going softly softly, so her Dsis doesnt panic and go back to him just to get to her children.

I appreciate that Lucious but the dsis needs to either get her dc out of the house or get him out pronto.

If she delays she may find that she is powerless in so far as the law is concerned.

She is terrified of loosing her kids and believes him when he tells her that SS would be interested in the dogs and over crowding.

Because we have all read about those families who loose their children for having three child friendly lurchers, haven't we?

I'm gonna show her this in the morning when I give her my keys. The poor love doesn't even have a phone atm because hers was stolen and she can't affiord to replace it so she wants to my keys to collect an old phone we have and she can feed my cat while she's here

Then she can pick her kids up from school and move herself and them in for the weekend and we can decide what happens next when I get back.

I will also leave her the number for WA and the yellow pages open on family law specialists.

There are no dogs here. He can phone who he likes. No-one but me has a right to say who stays in my house.

Oh I totally agree, imo she needs to get in and him out, but I am just trying to explain "WTF is she thinking?"

I think that if the OP can get her to a solicitor tomorrow for an emergency hearing then that will make a huge difference, and I hope the OP does.

The children are already scared. Your plan for tomorrow is good, if she won't do anything tonight.

Please tell your sister that there are a lot of women here who have been treated badly by their partners, and there is a wealth of support, experience, kindness, advice and knowledge of this type of situation. If she were to post here herself she wouldn't have to leave her preferred site, but could double her support. We're not bitches on Relationships threads, we're kind, patient and supportive. (Nests of vipers on AIBU though!)

Do you think her dh would do this if he thought he was going to have to do all the childcare himself? I bet not. He does it because he knows she'll come back every day to look after them (and probably do the housework while she's there too).

DOoin's sis. You need to be with your children and they need to be with you. They need to know you're going to be there when they get home from school, when they can't sleep at night, when they get up in the morning. They need you and they want you. Please don't let this man do this to you, you deserve so much more.

she has equal rights to be in the house and she could legally break in and say she isnt going anywhere (im police and have attended incidents identical to this)

she can break in. legally.its her house after all.
problem is so can he. joint names and all that, however if he kicks off, phone 999, get him removed to prevent breach of the peace. that will give you breathing space to get advice FAST!!!

she has been primary carer. he is a fucking knoboid by the sounds of it and i would not take this lying down.
legal advice ASAP. like yesterday.

Please please help her understand that the longer she "plays nice" the more likely she is to lose her children due to the old "status quo" thing.

She needs to get the kids away from him on one way or another and then she can deal with him.

TO THE OP's SISTER.

You will have alot of support on MN if you join us. We are not all mealy mouthed old bags (well I am, but the others aren't ) and we will be there for you every step of the way.

Your ex is using your love for your children as a weapon against you, and them, and they will be hurting without you there. Dont worry about scaring them, because if you rescue them from this situation then you will be taking the fear away. At the moment they are frightened, but they wont be when you rescue them. He is causing the fear, not you.

Get the children into your sisters house and lock the door. If he comes, call the police. thats all you need to do now, forget school/playgroups etc, have a couple of duvet days. Then, when your sister is back, you can see a solicitor. He is talking absolute CRAP about the dogs, there are several social workers on MN and they will all tell you the same.

We are here for you

emxx

It's heartbreaking.

I'd be damned if I let myself be kicked out of my own home and not be able to see my children.
The police would definitely be involved.
And a solicitor too.

Jux is right. They are already scared and scarred.
He is playing her and using their children to blackmail her into coming back.

I do hope she sorts it out.

All I can think here is, I'd tear the flesh off my own bones before I'd let some twat bloke kick me out of my own home, and separate me from my kids.
I wouldn't be able to sleep, eat or even speak until I got them back with me or got myself back to them.
Damaging to hear the arguments? How damaging do you think it is to be banned from seeing their own mother, and her complying with it, as far as they can see?
Don't even think I'll be able to sleep myself tonight. I hope someone manages to get her to connect with her instincts rather than talking herself out of what's best for her own children.

If he turned up here half the street would be on her side until the police got here.

Whilst I agree with your sentiments Shotgun perhapps we should focus on providing supportive messages to the OPs sister, rather than saying that we wouldnt allow this to happen in the first place? She is already feeling like shit, she doesnt need us telling her that we would kick the door down or whatever if we were her.

We aren't her. She needs our support.

I think she knows he wouldn't hurt the kids. Not physically, anyway. She is scared of him. Scared of loosing her kids and worried about upsetting them. Plus she feels she has no-where to go. My family are very 'doggy' and while we all know that the dogs will not be an issue she doesn't believe that. She believes him. He has conditioned her to take his word as law and it won't have been hard for him to do given how naturally quiet and compliant she is.

I appreciate that your sister is scared so let me just add another voice of reassurance: THIS MAN HAS NO POWER AT ALL over her in the law. The sooner she consults a solicitor, the sooner he can be removed from the house and barred from returning: WA will help her get it all sorted out. He can quite probably be charged with attempted fraud and blackmail for trying to get her to sign her share of the house over to him as well.

I don't think she wants the house. They can't sell it. She can't afford to pay the mortgage alone and can't afford any repairs should the need arise.

She wants to be in rented housing.

Plus last time she saw CAB they told her that if she kept the house he would have to keep up the repayments as it's in his name and he is working. This means she wouldn't get maintenance for the children because they'd veiw the mortgage payment as maintenance.

She just wants the children and a house for them all.

She is most welcome here and at my mums until she gets sorted.

To my sis when you read this incase I don't get time in the morning: Your children won't be scared if you bring them here or to my mams. You won't be upsetting them.

Think about it. Your kids are not allowed a TV in their room, mine have Virgin Media in theirs. It'd be like christmas for them :D Same for my mum's house.

All they want is you. There is nothing scary or upsetting about having a sleepover at nana's or aunty's with their mum.

SS and the Police can do nada. Put your sensible head on and you will see that.

I would add to Dooins post

Your children are being kept from you BY FORCE, that is against the law. You wouldnt be upsetting them, you would be rescuing them. Keep that in mind. xx

In the absence of a couple of handy geezers wise counsel able to convince this delusional twunt that unless he mends his controlling ways, he'll be mending numerous fractures cause his dc more irreparable emotional damage than he already has done, your dsis needs one godalmighty kick up the bum to demonstrate that she is capable of prioritising the needs of her own dc before she starts caring for others.

I have yet to encounter a controlling and emotionally abusive man such as your dsis's partner who doesn't practise what he preaches to his other half on his dc.

Unless your dsis gets her act together steps up to the plate, her dc will grow up in a hell that will be entirely of his making and, consequentially, they will no doubt suffer the torment of the damned throughout their lives - as evidenced by the many threads on this board from those who were similarly failed as children by the adults who were charged with nurturing and protecting them.

Contrary to what sgb has suggested the police are, sadly, unlikely to be interested in charging this gobshite with fraud and/or blackmail, but it's high time that your dsis comes to the realisation that he is a fraud and that his attempts to blackmail her with threats of SS are, and can be proved to be, as pathetic as he is.

Surely if your sister has been passed to be a child minder, then there are absolutely no concerns that would be passed on to SS?

let him report to SS - then she can get ss help. "overcrowding" in private house is no an issue and besides would be seen as temp arangement.

clealry ther are no welfare issues her side - but keepi dc against their wishes is on his side
if house in negative equity -sure sign over to him let him have the burden of the mortgage.

is she going into the house to do childcare then she gets kicked out each night? i just dont get it.
if she in house with kids and he is out - she needs to kock doors from inside and call police.

I understand that she tends to believe him, but there aren't two schools of thought on this. There are only facts.

Do SS take children away from loving families due to the presence of non-dangerous dogs? No, they don't.

Do SS take children away because they are in temporarily crowded accommodation? No, they don't.

Do fathers get given custody of kids just by asking for it, despite the mother being the primary carer? No, they don't.

Your sister needs to stop seeing these issues as your family against her husband - and see them objectively as facts.

I agree with others - tell him to ring the police, SS, the school, the dentist, whoever he likes - and do his worst.

'Help, my children are in a house with three dogs', almost certainly won't get him the response he wants. I'd be inclined to give this twat the rope with which to hang himself.

trust me - to think that the police or SS will be remotely interested in her living arrangements simply because of the presence of the family pooches is ludicrous but i can see that he has managed to package his abuse in such a way that she believes what he says.

she needs to know its bollocks. its just a tool he is using to get control. DV is about control.

im a police officer - he would get laughed out of the station.

DOoin, how's things? Hope your sis is somewhat calmed about what he can actually do (and more importantly what he can't). Has she got back in the house? Has she got the kids out of there?

DOooin's gone away for a couple of days, Jux, and here's hoping she sent her dsis a link to this thread before she went.

Based on Vicar's response, I've had visions of the mood of general hilarity that will engulf the police station when Mr Too Too Precious reports that, after he threw his dw out of her home, she took the children to stay in an overcrowded house where (shock, horror) dogs mingle with humans.

Strikes me that, given that this shit parent has fathered 4 dc in less than 7 years, a vasectomy wouldn't go amiss.

As for expecting his long-suffering dw to earn her keep because money is tight, what's he spending it on and why isn't he out doing 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet?