Legal advice for my sister (and a good stern talking to is probably needed too. Not too stern though, she is not on MN coz she thinks we're all bullies)

[D0oinMeCleanin]

She goes on Baby World

But I will printing this thread out for her. She needs legal advice and some good advice and some postive been there and out the other side far happier stories.

The story is her DP has thrown her out of the house. They are unmarried but have four children together. The mortgage is both names. He believes the house work is solely her responsibility because he works and she doesn't (because looking after four five including him children f/t is easy, innit?)

He wants custody of the children and has requested that she sign the house over to him (it's negative equity anyhow, so selling it won't gain her anything and she cannot afford the mortgage payments alone) Where does she stand if she does sign it over, wrt housing benefits and council houses and voluntary homelessness etc?

He has taken her key and she is not allowed in the house unless he is there and must knock before she comes in.

This happened last night. Her 4yo son heard all this and sneaked down out of bed to open the door for her because he was worried about her

She is staying at my parents atm. He has told her the children are not allowed to stay there. If she takes them there again he will report her to SS because my parents have three (non agressive dogs) there would also be an over crowding issue, but it would only be a temporary solution anyway until she finds her own place.

She is more than welcome to stay here but we also ahve dogs although ours are slightly calmer and would have an even bigger over crowding issue (I could kick DH out to his mums for a while and she could sleep in my bed with me. The children would have to top and tail in bunks with mine and the baby has a travel cot)

At the moment the children are with him and she is allowed to see them after school and is allowed to provide childcare when is working

He has let the eldest come to my parents to stay tonight because she was so upset about her mum not being with her. My sister is a very devoted mum and never leaves her children.

This is the third time this has happened. Last time he called the police on her for assaulting him (i.e defending herself when he was trying to snatch the baby from her arms, he was pissed up.) the police saw through his story and no charges were brought against her or him, but they did have a chat with him about his behaviour in drink and did remove him from the house that night. They were fine with my sister. No report to SS was made afaik.

That is the un emotive version. I can't put down in print my feelings on the matter. There aren't enough cuss words in the world to cover it.

Where does she go from here? She is considering having a chat with him to try and solve things like the last two times this happened.

No court in the world would grant him custody over her unless of course she has drink/drugs problems or is unable to cope for another reason.

Social Service will not give one fuck about a dog in the house unless it is a dangerous breed. I can't believe she is frightened of his threats. Tell the bully to fuck the fuck off.

I am outraged on your sister's behalf. Who do the hell does he think he is? Tell your sister to see a solicitor tomorrow. Why on earth should he get to keep a house that is in both their names?

She needs to ring around until she can find a solicitor that can see her as a matter of urgency and get the first appointments she can. A lot of them provide a free half hour or first hour to give her an idea of what she can do.

Also contact WA and the CAB, find out everything she can about what she can do.

I would also advise contacting the police DA unit, this is abuse and they might be able to advise further.

She needs to act as quickly as she can.

What a twat btw, your poor sister.

If the mortgage is joint then neither one of them can legally prevent the other from acessing the property.

Your sister is on really shaky ground by leaving the house and children. She needs to get back into the house and stay there with the children. Does she not have any big scary friends or relatives who can stay there with her until she's spoken to a solicitor?

Izzy. Twattish has actually been vaire good for months now. I strongly suspect that he has been taken over by aliens that or the fact that I came this close to signing for a place of my own scared the shit out of him he has even been vair good at housekeeping.

Not perfect but vair good. Still room for improvements.

But yes, my sisters and I don't seem to have much luck in men do we?

I don't think he would be violent. She is very quiet and refuses to argue in front of the children. Her main priority atm is not causing them any unneccessary upset or stress, which is why she won'yt refuse to leave. She does not want them to hear the arguing.

We could take them out for the day while she sorts it out. My concern is that if she does go back to the house, she will end up staying and three months down the line this will happen again. Imo, she would be better off getting the children and leaving, but what could he then do about it? Police, SS, none of the above?

And also if it helps I have three giant big dogs and six children so our house is pretty crowded

I have had social services into my home as I am disabled to asses me for help, and they were perfectly happy with my living arrangements, they had no qualms at all

he couldn't do anything about it

what's he going to say? i kicked my wife out, but because she has taken the children i want to report it as a crime

taking your own children isn't a crime. especially in these circumstances!

Your sister doesn't need to faff around with Land Registry shit searches/fees.

As far as the police are concerned, if she's jointly named on the mortgage that'll be more than sufficient to establish her right to be in the property and if he claims otherwise, he'll have to prove it.

What is it with this man? Is he some kind of throwback?

You and your sister sure drew 2 short straws and, in his case, he's way more than one straw short of a haystack.

Unfuckingbelieveable behaviour. It's like something out a Dickens novel.

Police?
SS?
None of the above? TICK

He can do nothing.

He can take her to court for access which he will get, and he can attempt to gain custody, which he will lose because she is the primary care giver. If she were to take them and her/their posessions while she is looking after them when he is at work he can do precisely FUCK ALL.

None of the above

Mothers leave with their children all the time, as long as he has access there is nothing he can do and police or social services would not be at all interested

(I've used mothers above but actually what I mean is primary carers, it is almost always-barring abuse- better for children to remain with the primary carer with access to the other parent)

He can then choose to take it to court, but again the courts want to keep the status quo as its better for the children, if she leaves it too long he could be seen as the primary carer and she the non resident parent, she needs to move quickly

Me? I'd be round there accompanied by the police right this second! Who does fucker think he is? I know these men have a way of terrifying you into submission, years of abuse makes them seem totally omnipotent. I had one. I remember my friends frustration with my fear of him.

However he tried to throw me out the house one day with my baby ds inside with him and it unleashed a fury in me I had not known I was capable of, he had to let me back in because I was physically smashing the door in. Never tried that again!

I would phone the police right now and have them escort me back to MY children and MY home. Wow this has made so reading this.

Unless your sis has drugs/alcohol/mental health problems I can't see any reason why she wouldn't be able to claim benefits and be housed for the time being, as I said before being the main carer counts for a lot x

There's no point her not wanting to argue in front of the dc imo, theyre probably already scared because she's not there with them :(

She doesn't drink. She has been breast feeding pretty much constantly for the last 7 years. She's never tried drugs. Has no MH issues and is a registered child minder.

Dooin, is there any reason why your sister, you and whoever else in your family are not round there RIGHT NOW to collect those children ?

he has no right to do this

if this were my sister, I would move back in the house with her...and force him out

if he kicked off...the police would be called

What your sister will be better off doing is kicking this twunt into touch applying for an occupation Order which will give her the right to stay in her own home and also for a non-molestation Order to prohibit him coming within a set distance of her/the property.

Visit www.womensaid.org.uk to search for your dsis's local branch, give them a call and ask for recommendations for family lawyers who know their onions are familiar with making application for ex parte injunctions

They already know somethings wrong and God knows what he's telling them.

She needs to get them out of their asap and deal with the shit later.

Honestly, this faffing around is just hurting her children :(

Nothing would keep me from mine in this situation, not least the fact that God alone knows what he is telling them when they ask why mummy isnt there :(

Get round there with some big blokes and a van. Let the solicitors deal with the details.

Xpost with Daenerys

I think you need to galvanize her into action. She may not want to make a fuss or upset the children, but she is actually jeopardising her own future access and relationship to them which will be 1000x more upsetting for them in the future. She needs to establish her legal right to live there and as the primary carer. Please help her to see that if she doesn't do this, she is allowing herself to be written out by this bullying man. The children don't want that, she doesn't want that, she needs to take action tomorrow to ensure hers and their rights are protected.

She's asked us not to interfere AF. If she wanted to go back and take the children right now I know plenty of people (myself included) who would go and assist her but she is concerned about scaring them.

Atm we are taking the softly softly approach with her so as not to scare her into going back to him for an easy life.

I am going away for two days tomorrow and have advised that she collect the children from school and come straight here with them. He has not got a key to my house and my dogs will not be here, not that they would be an issue if they were, of course, but knowing that they won't be here might make it easier for her to see that as an option.

Just reading about this is enough to send my blood pressure through the roof make the smoke come out of my ears.

I'd be round there now with a battering ram - and I wouldn't necessarily confine its use to battering the front door down...

How old are the dc? How is she managing to mind children if she can't get into her own home?

She has no mindees atm. That is part of his problem. She is not earning, nor is she doing the housework to his exact standards. Her house is fine. A bit cluttered with toys, but with four children that is to be expected but clean and tidy. She was assessed and passed to mind children in her home. She's also applied for a job at my workplace but needs further training on the till before she can have any set shifts. She is trying to earn her money, she understands that things are tight for them atm.

The children are 7yrs to 1yr. The 7yo is with her atm because she became too upset so he allowed her to take her to my mums. The three younger ones are with him.

I'm a solicitor - not a family one but I am also divorced so know a bit about it!

Your sister has been the primary carer up to now and - her ex-p's views aside - the family court will maintain status quo for the kids and keep her as main carer. As they aren't married she isn't entitled to maintenance for herself but she is entitled to child maintenance and for 4 kids this will be 25% of her ex-P's net income.

It's important to remember that "status quo" can change and so she must get back in the house. He is not entitled to exclude her from it (as jointly owned) and of he is really intransigent on this, she can get a court order as to who stays in the home and who goes. But if she delays and stays with parents leaving kids with him in the house, there is a danger that in time a court may find that the status quo for the kids is the new situation.

She should take advice ASAP and most family solicitors offer initial consultation for free, though if she is really skint then she should go to CAB for advice.

He sounds like a vile turd. Please urge your sister to get formal legal advice on her situation. Do not let her sign anything without legal advice.