how to I get things to change?

[needtochangenow]

DH working through the weekend (academic)....again. Comes home from work yesterday and sits and watches footy while I do all the dinner, goes on computer after dinner as I tidy up after dinner and put children to bed. This morning, as every morning, I do everything to get breakfast, his lunch for today etc ready, he gets up, showers, has breakfast, gets up from table. I say he could take one thing through to the kitchen on his way. partly to set an example to dc because recently he has got them to help more with filling dishwasher etc because he thinks it's important for them to contribute (I agree) but meanwhile he continues to do nothing. we don't live in a palace, it really is only 6 steps from where we eat to the kitchen. he refused to carry his cup through. got really angry, he says he is not going to do that when he has to go to work for 9 hour and I am just going to the park for the day.

Which is not true as I have three DC, plus some housework to do. I work a 36 hour week outside the home. He works 60 hours but I do everything to do with children, house, finances ...on top of working 36 hours.

I am rocking the boat - asking him to do something,been making it clearer recently that I am not happy for him to work so many weekends - and he does not like it.

how to I change things? I feel so miserable about this all, just feel like the maid.

I would find it impossible to become sexually aroused by someone like this. Sorry. I'd be changing the locks.

If he won't even carry a cup to the kitchen, then he feels you're the maid too.

How can you change that?

Stop acting like the maid.

If he complains, tell him to fuck off and look after himself like the grown up he is.

How do you change things? Well, you start with a calm conversation. If he refuses to take your wants/needs etc into consideration you have a much bigger problem than him not helping around the house.

It sounds as if he resents you for "being at home" although working for 36 hours is a full time job.

Honestly, he sounds like he's decided what the roles are and yours is clearly subservient.

I'd have wanted to throw the cup at him (wouldn't have done it but would have really wanted to).

You're not his bloody servant. Cheeky fucker.

I think it is ultimatum time!

You are treated as an equal and things are dicussed properly and fairly or in essence the relationship is over.

He behaves that way because deep down he thinks that housework and childcare is women's work and that men's paid work is of more value than women's paid work.

If he's an academic, he might detest enjoy reading 'Wifework' by Susan Maushart and while you're at it, buy your own copy.

He will also treat you in the way you allow him to and because he has no expectation of any consequences to him personally if he continues to be a sexist shit.

thanks for the reply, it has made me burst into tears to read them, because you are so right. good to have some support.

He has decided what the roles are and when i try to change them (even a little as in carry a cup) he does not like it.

And I am an idiot too because I argued back a bit (saying he should carry it to set a good example for the children), when he repeated about his work, I just backed down/gave up. So he went to work on the morally superior "how dare she ask me to do that when I have to go to work and she is in the park"

Calm conversations don't happen. There is a pattern: I say we need to speak about something. He gets defensive, then I calmly go on, and although he mellows a bit, it ends up being about me not doing this, or be being too this or that, or again how important his work is and how much stress he has. So it gets turned round into being my problem.

Having spent the morning doing my chores - though I left his dirty underwear and socks on the bathroom floor - what a rebel I am ...I am off to really enjoy time at the park with my children, who even if their father does not have time for them, deserve some fun!

How did you get yourself into a situation where you allowed your husband to bully you? Because that's what this is. You're not an idiot for arguing back - why do you think that?

He leaves his stuff on the floor because he has contempt for you and knows you'll pick them up. So don't. Let them remain there and don't wash them. He'll soon run out of pants and socks.

But there's a much bigger picture here. You're married to a sexist bully who uses his intellect in discussions to belittle you and convince you that what is indisputably his fault, is yours instead.

Don't take the children to the park. Leave them at home with Dad and you have a day out on your own. No discussion ... just 'I'm going out now. See you later. Make sure you put the washing on and don't forget XYZ'... shortly before you shut the door. Repeat this on a regular basis. If he doesn't ever engage with family life he will never appreciate what you do.

How strange that I come on to see if anyone else puts up with the same crap as I do and lo and behold, my post is sat right in front of me.
Except, replace all references to working at the weekend to sitting on his arse on his phone or watching football.
We have a just 4 yr old and a 16 month. I work 17 hours and have Thursday and Friday off. I wash, iron, tidy (constantly), clean when I can, bath children, get up with children and mostly put them to bed.
He works. And this is becoming increasingly all he does do. He does nothing from the minute he walks through the door during the week (even to the extent of there being washing up but he'll have watched a match instead), and weekends are so much worse. Last weekend he literally sat glued to the tv from 5pm until 8 - then looked at me like I was insane when I eventually say down at 8pm, both children having been sorted by me. This weekend he has been on a boys day out - which began at 10am yesterday morning and he staggered home at 10pm - so no prizes for guessing who's up and who's in bed.
I am finding it now increasingly difficult to have even the slightest feelings of respect, affection and as for sex - forget it, I go to bed usually 2 hours before him.
So, what is the point and more importantly where the hell do I go from here ?

"where the hell do I go from here ?"

Once you accept that you may live with another person but you're essentially living as a singleton then the obvious question is 'would I be better off being properly solo?' When you've lost respect, affection and a sex-life... all you've got left is a lazy, irritating flat-mate.

"He has decided what the roles are"

That's not his decision.

Stop picking up after him.

People with jobs are still capable of bringing cups to the sink and clothes to the laundry basket.

Stop doing him small kindnesses (like making his lunch) when he is so unkind to you.

And start thinking about how much nicer your lives would be if this domestic bully wasn't around making demands and contributing nothing.

If he doesn't change then you leave chullah. You set out your expectations and if he can't meet them you vote with your feet. Selfish and entitled people will only do what they can get away with. If he was a single parent, he would have to do more and you need to make him realise that the alternative is him having the kids 50% of the time in his own place and doing everything for them while he has them. Which means that you can up your work hours and regain your independence.

Needtochange - do you have the constant feeling of 'may as well be on my own?'

I would start just clearing up after myself and any really tiny children, and leave the rest of the household to get stuffed. I would also go out a lot, or have weekends away at friends' houses, and leave him to get on with it.

I managed three months without any cleaning last year, to see if DH would actually do the toilets. He did them twice in all that time, then agreed to shell out for a cleaner from the household budget. My point was made.

Not really because a cleaner is still someone else cleaning up after him.

How do I get things to change?

You can't change him. Only yourself.

Here are some of your options:

• Change your expectations: stop feeling he should pull his weight in the house. Continue waiting on him hand and foot. Die a little more inside each day if you can't manage to completely quash the feeling that you shouldn't be treated as a skivvy by the man who is supposed to love and cherish you.

• Change your actions: stop waiting on him hand and foot: no more preparing his lunches, washing his socks, go out with your girlfriends when he refuses to spend quality time with you. See what happens.

• Change your hopes: stop thinking he will ever change. Realise he won't, and that nothing you can do can make him act like a loving and respectful partner. Decide whether you would be better off without this dead weight in your life.

chullah, I think I'd start by removing the batteries from the remote, unplugging the tv/sky etc (or even cancelling the subscription) and insisting on a conversation about your useless H taking some part in family life and facing up to his responsibilities.

needtochange now, I studied for a Masters degree part time while working full time as a teacher, so brought home marking etc every night that I did in addition to studying most nights. At this time I was married and my DC were around 3 and 5 when I started it. It took about 2.5 years and I continued to do 70% of the household tasks and 90% of the childcare. My exH treated me as yours treats you...he was more important than I was, to put it simply. He went running at weekends, went to football matches and spent hours reading the newspapers. Weekends, to him, were a time for leisure when you relaxed and did what you wanted to do. For me, they were a time to spend with the children and squeeze everything else in too (I employed a cleaner when housework was coming between me and my children).

Surely before the marriage ended, exH got up from the dining table, walked into the kitchen and put his plate on the worktop next to the sink, leaving the remains of his food on it. To do this, he had to walk past the dishwasher and the waste disposal unit in the sink. He then left the room. I loaded the dishwasher and left his plate where it was. A short while later, he came back in the kitchen, saw his plate and said "Oh, you didn't put that in the dishwasher". No, I said, neither did you. "But it needs to go in the dishwasher" he said. "Yes, but you didn't put it in there" I replied. This was all very calm.

Start standing your ground and make it clear you will not be walked over or treated like a slave. If you are not shown respect in a relationship, then it is not acceptable. To me, respect is more important than trust, affection, loyalty etc - because if you respect each other, all else follows.

Now I have to do pretty much everything at home, but at least I don't have him lolling around taking up space or a dining room table perpetually covered in newspapers. The girls are 12 and 14 now and we are very happy :)

I have an academic job and ex was a sahp (because he had social anxiety, so not out of choice).
He still did very little, comparatively.
I'd deal with DS (including morning school run) and do the laundry. Plus shopping with him. Or he did via internet, but delivery was at a time I'd be home and he wouldn't go to the door.

He was supposed to cook, but at least 3 meals were takeaway, or ready meals or pizza or left overs.
Cleaning might be once a fortnight and we have a dishwasher.

We still had arguments about housework!

It's not the job, it's the man.

So he works 60 hours a week (does he actually need to? Sounds v workaholic) at one job. You have a f-t job of 36 hours PLUS you do 100% of the childcare, 100% of the housework and 100% of the finances and sorting-out-of-stuff. In other words, as well as your full time job, you are a nanny-childminder, cleaner and work in admin! If you added up all the hours you spend working at these various roles, it would add up to miiiiiles more than 60 hours.

He sounds like self-centred, entitled sexist. He is treating you with zero respect. I bet if a colleague asked him to take his cup with him when he left instead of on his or her desk, he would just do it. In face, I bet he wouldn't need asking. So how come it's too much to ask when it's you? It's treating you like a servant. Sounds like he just wants to indulge in his work as much as possible and not let family or domestic life encroach on that and in his mind, you are just staff there to facilitate him being able to do this, without complaint or any needs of your own, without him needing to acknowledge, help or even respect you. It's like you've become a 'thing' to him, an object to let him live his life how he wants it, like a car or a computer or kettle.

How he dare say he thinks it's important for your DC to contribute when he refuses to, I do not know! One rule for him, one rule for another, hey? Sounds like he's seeing them as parts of the machine that keep him happy and his life running how he likes it too. But please think about your DC in this. I don't know what combination of sexes you have, but this family set-up will teach daughters to be dometic doormats and drudges and sons to be sexist pigs who believe their future partners should do everything in the home. That's not good for them!

This man is a disgrace, my blood boils om your behalf! First thing, stop making him breakfast and lunch. Start small. He's clearly not an invalid and he can hardly hold your hand and force you to make his sandwiches.

Write down everything you do in the home. Tot up all the hours you do in your job, looking after the kids, the housework, the finances, the household planning, paying bills, etc., and pit down in black and white just how much you do, then show it to him. Let him see how unbalanced things are and see what he says. If he's an academic, he's clearly not a stupid man and will have to see how unfair things have got. Don't let him get away with sexist crap like childcare and housework being women's work. You both work ft, so should both do an equal share or at least proportional. I think that whatever he says, you two should have some counselling, because it sounds like he's got into a habit of viewing you as staff and of course, the current setup works great for him, so why should he change? It'll take a lot of work to get him to see sense, I think, sadly.

thanks again for sharing experiences and thoughts. I tend to think I am the one being mean and selfish, so good to read something that says the opposite.

Hatty - you are right, he is a bully a times. I meant I was an idiot because I did not stand my ground, continue the argument but just backed off. how did I get there ? I wonder too...a little bit at a time, taking on more and more, patterns that developed while I was on maternity leave/unemployed which have stayed as such. It's always a little bit more...just one more little thing to do...surely it is not asking too much, he says.

It's been like this for a while, with times when I accept it more (like Hot damm said, dying a bit more each time) and then periods of fighting it - like right now, but then I give up. I am not giving up this time. We had arranged to go out to dinner next weekend and I have just sent him a calm message saying how I felt this morning and that we should take the chance to talk things through. Silence so far, as expected. there are huge imbalances in our relationship - he's older, earns more, more established, we live in a country with his mother tongue where I just about get by...but at least I can expect the cup to go in the bloody kitchen.

chullah - sorry to hear that my post resonated with your situation, Yes I do feel I would be better off sometimes....but it is scarey, and there are the children...

Needtochangenow - exactly same here. And I probably would have a battle on my hands as he can be the one that goes, he chose to be the idiot and my children are settled. Tough one isn't it. But as each day goes by, nothing changes.

Wishing you hugs xx

What do you think your children are learning from his behaviour? That you are a servant? That you don't deserve respect?

You can't change him but you can change how you deal with his selfish entitled behaviour.

My H used to be like this for years.

The extra work is often to suit himself, though he wont admit it.

He does think you are less than him. And his respect for you is going down the pan, bit by bit. He is argumentative and defensive about it because he knows he is wrong.

You will die inside more and more, until the relationship becomes awful.

And it is so, so true- change yourself. That will make him change, if anything does. And if it doesnt, he doesnt give a shit about you, does he?

I simply cannot believe that if I had decided to give him an ultimatum earlier, I could have saved myself years of misery. I didnt, though. And then when I did, about all sorts of stuff, he changed a great deal.

oh chullah- I fully sympathise. have you tried talking about it calmly? sigh.

madabout... you are right about what the children are learning, that is what depresses me about the situation as well.

oxford- of course I don't think he needs to work as much. He says he is not a workaholic (apparently subject of conversation at his work) because he enjoys taking time off work while workaholics don't, he says. But of course he takes on more that he needs to. He lives for work, though he always says he puts the family first. At work he is an example of equality, in the way he treats people, or at least that is what he reports, and having seen him with them I know that he can be. why can't he see the glaringly obvious at home? I am going to write it all down, thanks for the suggestion. we do have a cleaner that does the basics once a week but there is so much more to do in the house on a daily basis. think writing works better for me, it gives me time....

so I got a response to my message- that he also felt disrespected this morning because I told him to help in front of the children, (he often tells me what to do and what not to do in front of the children, one rule for me, one for him?) at the same time as I was telling the children off for not helping. That he does carry stuff into th kitchen on other days (not true otherwise it would not have annoyed me so much) and that because he works such long days on the weekend he does not have to set a model for working. That he knows my weekends involve houswork but I also get to spend a lot of time off with the children, time which he does not get...It is true I get to spend time with my children, but it often involves sitting in swimming pools full of wee (can you tell I hate taking them swimming?)or standing around a cold park.... Not sure what to say back,...again I feel the blame gets put on me....

Just like the arguments we used to have. And with the same type of h.

He just doesnt want to change, and he thinks you should shut up about it. And better, just do it yourself and leave him alone.