I just don't know what to think about my marriage anymore, I could do with some advice. Long, sorry.

[Dawnybabe]

Bit of background; my dh has a long history of porn. Have caught him looking at it on the computer so many times I've lost count. He knows I don't really like it, I feel compared and slighted and almost cheated on in a way, but he still continues to look at it. He has downloaded thousands of images of women, I know because I found them all at christmas and we had a bit of a row about it.

Since then I have found more stuff with this years date on. He obviously didn't take my complaints seriously and can't stop himself and is still doing it. I went to use the computer the other day and he was still logged in. I couldn't help myself and checked his browser history. As well as all the porn sites, there were live chat sites with webcams where you could watch. I assume he has been watching real women in real time getting undressed and doing all sorts.

What comes next? I asked him if he planned on anything else like having an affair and he was shocked and said of course not. I don't know if he'd go that far and I don't know when he'd find the time because if he's not working or fishing he's home with us. He's never been one for going out or socialising with anyone. I guess he likes to do it from the privacy of his own home.

I have told him several times that I don't like it and divorce would be on the cards if he didn't buck his ideas up. Whenever I try to discuss it with him he sort of clams up and can't see that there is a problem or goes monosyllabic on me. I feel as if I'm to blame in some way as since the dc's came along I have definitely got a bit chunkier and feel very self-conscious in bed, and of course my sex drive has hit an all time low, although imagining him imagining these other women doesn't help. He says he loves me and doesn't want anybody else but I just don't feel as though I trust him anymore.

I actually sat last night and worked out how I would cope financially without him. I realised that if we sold this house and paid off the mortgage, it would leave us with nearly £70,000 each. I could easily live on that for a few years if I rented somewhere until smallest dc is at school and then I could get a job. I told him this and he was a bit shocked, although we were in bed and I think he was half asleep so don't know if he took it in.

But then when he came home from work yesterday I had cooked dinner, made him his favourite cake and we all sat and had a nice dinner together. Why would I even think of spoiling that? We moved house when eldest dc was little and had nearly a year of regression to self-wetting. I can't put my lovely kids through all that just for my sake. I told him what a sap he had married and how he didn't deserve me being nice to him and he just laughed and gave me a hug.

Thank you if you've got this far. Writing this all out has been very cathartic.

I honestly can't see me ever leaving this marriage but I am very, very unhappy.

Your children deserve a happy mum. I grew up with unhappy parents who stayed together for our sake. I had an unhappy childhood as a result. Don't see your children as a reason to stay, they are a reason to leave.

What are your personal limits of tolerance for a partner's usage of porn?

Have you informed your partner what these are?

And are you prepared to back those up with action, including leaving, if your husband chooses to go beyond the limits of what you personally find acceptable?

Threatening divorce but not following through is as good as telling your husband that he has a free hand to do what he wants, as you are not serious, by the way. It is best to never make any threats in a relationship. Just state your limits, and decide for yourself what the consequence will be if that limit is crossed. Then follow through.

Your H has a long standing porn addiction that he is patentlu not interested in wanting to address at all. He has completely disregarded your feelings on this matter and even mentioning divorce to him has had little effect (also because you have also not followed through on this). It seems that he just wants you to put up and shut up to boot. Currently he is having his cake and eating it as well because he has both the porn and you to clean house and look after the children.

What is your tipping point, the ultimate deal breaker for you?. He is acting disrespectfully at the very least, you also have evidence that he is watching live webcams.

The children will sense that you are unhappy and perhaps even blame themselves. They deserve a happy mum, you are in a very unhappy marriage. Papering the cracks and making the best of a bad job as you did yesterday does you and the children no favours in the long term; the underlying porn issue is still there and damaging your marriage as a result.

What do you get out of this relationship now?.

What are you both teaching your children about relationships here?. What if your children were to subsequently find all these images he has stored?.

If you're not happy and you think you can survive financially, you should leave. For me personally, his porn habit would be a dealbreaker, simply because I'm not a supporter of the porn industry and wouldn't live with someone who was, but lots of women think differently about this subject.

I feel as if I'm to blame in some way as since the dc's came along I have definitely got a bit chunkier and feel very self-conscious in bed, and of course my sex drive has hit an all time low

Don't for one minute blame this on you. You are who you are and had his kids, you should be proud, not down on yourself. If he can only get off to blow-up dolls, that's his issue. You need to value yourself as you are OP and realise you don't have to change to meet his expectations. Stop thinking about his porn habit in relation to yourself.. like I said, it's HIS issue.

Maybe you should suggest a trial separation? You children are much better off with parents who value and respect each other..

So now your DH knows that he has got off with it again and with almost permission to carry on as you are not carrying out threats. He will NOT stop will he?
He knows you are too weak to go, you have rewarded him with dinner and cake
If you want him to stop you are going the completly wrong way about it.

So there's no help for me if I'm not prepared to give up on my marriage?

That's what I thought.

He's a perfectly good husband in the practical sense. Works hard, looks after us, provides for us, is good with the dc's, helps around the house, etc. We get on perfectly well most of the time. Then I catch him with the porn again and sulk for a week. Although admittedly usual service carries on, he still gets his dinner cooked and washing done. I don't think I really know how else to be and I'm not much good at anything else.

I am absolutely pathetic. I have no identity. I am a mother and a housewife and that's it. I hold onto that as an excuse for a pathetic life.

Perhaps I should change my name to Doormat?

Right, so he knows you don't like it but he does it anyway.
The fact that he is fine about watching women being degraded and humilated shows a contempt for women anyway and when you match that with his attitude towards you, I'd say that he simply has no respect for you.
He obviously doesn't take your threats seriously at all, so you can row until you are blue in the face but it won't get you anywhere.

So you are left with either putting up with this or taking action.

If you put up with this then you do risk him acting out one of his fantasies. After all, if he doesn't see this as a problem and has no respect for you or your feelings then why shouldn't he?
Then there are your kids. Do you have a daughter? What if your kids found his stash of porn one day? After all, he's not even bothering to hide his activities is he? Leaving himself logged in? It's almost as though he is boasting.
Could you live like this for the rest of your life? Because it's obvious that he won't do anything about it.

Or you could take action. Yes it's tough on the kids, let's not pretend it won't be. But at least they won't be exposed to a father who has no respect for his wife and who is hooked on porn. Trust me, kids aren't stupid and no amount of nice cooking or pretending to be happy families will fool them. If you are unhappy they will know. Kids listen in, kids snoop, kids know their way around a computer, kids sense things, kids are observant.

And what about you? Do you think that this is all you deserve? Is this what you wanted from life?
Do you not think that you deserve another shot at life? Some happiness with a man who respects you and your feelings?

Kids get over a divorce. They do. It makes a huge difference if it is handled amicably but you still have this issue of him using porn. Would he use porn whilst they were in the house? Would he be so negligent as to let them find it? However you have to make a move here, otherwise your threats are empty and he'll just carry on the way he always has.

I know what I would do. But I'm not you. However I do feel most for your children. Their first experience of relationships comes from their parents.

Sorry, crossed posts there.

Thanks for all your replies. Attilas hit the mark. I guess the dealbreaker would be an actual affair, but the suggestion of a trial seperation is a good idea, although his guess is as good as mine as to where the hell I'd go.

The dc's are too little to notice much beyond themselves and I don't argue in front of them. To the outside world we have a great marriage. I just wish it was enough for him. It was enough for me.

He says he looks at porn because 'he's only male'. I said well I'm female and I'd like a sex life too thank you very much. Not all males think like that.

Dawnybabe, I think you are frightened of change. You'd rather live with the devil you know than face the devil you don't. What you don't seem to understand is that this life you are living should be the thing that frightens you. Living like this for the rest of your life should scare the hell out of you.

Change is never as scary as it seems. Certainly not when you look at what you have to put up with.

You might not feel strong, but you do have a responsibility to those children. Not many people will stick up for themselves but they will fight tooth and nail for their kids and your kids don't deserve to be brought up in that kind of environment.

Don't wallow in self pity. You know that he would still be hooked on porn regardless of how you looked. He has an addiction and it's easy to blame that on you. Besides his disrespect of you makes you feel like a nobody and nothing, making it less likely that you'll ever actually carry out your threats. He knows that.

Don't stay in a shit marriage for the sake of the kids. It ends up damaging them more than if you left. And the earlier you make this break the better.

No, not all males look at porn. That's a shit argument. They certainly don't look at it every day when they are married with kids.

Besides he's doing something more than just looking at pictures of naked women. He's cheating online. Yes, that does count as cheating.

Your children are not part of the outside world. As they get older they will know that things are not right. They will sense your unhappiness. They will see the way he treats you. They will find his porn that he's left logged in and if you have a daughter, imagine how she would feel then? What warped ideas of relationships will they get from their father?

You deserve more. Your kids deserve more. This man has a huge problem and whilst he's busy blaming it on you or pretending it's not there, you can't help him.

I guess the dealbreaker would be an actual affair, but the suggestion of a trial seperation is a good idea, although his guess is as good as mine as to where the hell I'd go.

You go nowhere, he's the one who should leave and experience any upheaval, not you and the kids. Tell him to move out temporarily while you think things through.

You will cope.

He is having an actual affair - an online one.

It seems that he cannot have sex unless it's with a stranger online who provides his sexual needs. You, OP, you provide him with his domestic needs and you look after his children. That's how his life is, that's how it's been for a long time and it's obvious he doesn't want to change that.

He doesn't care that you know. He's been caught before, he knows you can see what he's been up to and he doesn't care. He can't even be bothered to log himself out anymore.

You need to stop thinking of him now and his needs and think of you and your childrens. Tell him to leave. You have the kids so you are entitled to the house. If he won't leave, threaten to tell his family and friends what he's been up to and FOLLOW IT THROUGH. He needs to realise you are serious.

Second chances don't come often. He's had plenty and now you've got yours.

Hi Dawnybabe,

re your comment:-
"He's a perfectly good husband in the practical sense. Works hard, looks after us, provides for us, is good with the dc's, helps around the house, etc".

You do not mention the emotional aspect in that above comment.

Emotionally however, he is unavailable to you due to porn and that is extremely damaging not just to you but to his children as well. You do not even have to argue in front of them for them to realise that there are problems here. They pick up on all the vibes you two give off towards each other. Also such men with porn addictions more often than not have massive and associated problems with intimacy as a result; problems that you did not cause.

Not all men look at porn by any means; he has used a spurious argument on you there.

You should not leave the marital home; he needs to be the one to leave here.

I suggested that if it came to it, he would have to leave. He said no. He can't afford this house and another place as well.

I wonder if his parents would put him up for a while? Perhaps they ought to know that their golden boy isn't perfect and appreciate my side of things. They're having some renovation work done. He was there last night helping them out. Perhaps he could stay and help out for a bit longer!?

I know what you're saying about the kids but we never really act any differently when they're around. He doesn't really acknowledge there being a problem so he's just the same, it's just me that feels things aren't right.

I know you say I deserve more but on the whole we have a pretty nice life. We have a nice home and the kids are settled and happy at school. I don't work but don't want for much and most people would say I'm lucky really. We have no money worries or health issues. It could be worse. I try and look on the bright side really.

How does one go about kicking out a husband who not only does not want to go, but is the sole breadwinner, and would probably insist that I go?

Dawnybabe,you are being treated like you don't exist by your man, I don't have a wife or partner & never look at porn, it's a moral code thing for me, I am not religious in any way.I can see how degrading it is for you if you are a little insecure about your shape or size. I would put a brick through his computer screen after bouncing it off his thick skull.

How does one go about kicking out a husband who not only does not want to go, but is the sole breadwinner, and would probably insist that I go?

Tell him to go and stay with his parents for a while. If he refuses then threaten to tell his parents why you want him to leave. If he laughs at your threat then make sure you carry them through.

Yes he can stay with his parents. How do you go about it? You say "I've had enough of your porn and your treatment of me - GO!" if he refuses you pick up the phone to his parents and tell them that he will be staying at theirs for a few weeks to help with the renovations. Why? Well because he has a porn addiction and you've finally snapped after discovering that he also has online sex and sex chats. I reckon he'll have his bags packed before you can utter that sentence though.

You have a nice life materially yes. But as Attila says, emotionally no. Emotionally you do not feel loved or respected and that will eventually gnaw away at you and erode your sense of self.

The kids won't stay that young forever. You might think you are putting on a great act but tell me this: Does he ever come up and hug you for no reason? Does he tell you that he loves you in front of the kids? Does he play fight with you? Do you both laugh together? Do you snuggle up on the sofa? Does he kiss you? Does he pat your bottom as he walks past? Does he hold your hand in public?

All of these little things matter. If you are warm to the kids but cold to each other they WILL notice. They will think that all relationships are like that. You cannot fool your kids all of the time, certainly not the older they get. You might get away with it now, but you won't soon.

I can only advise you to leave.

"I know you say I deserve more but on the whole we have a pretty nice life. We have a nice home and the kids are settled and happy at school. I don't work but don't want for much and most people would say I'm lucky really. We have no money worries or health issues. It could be worse. I try and look on the bright side really".

But the cracks show because of his porn addiction. This is broken and he is not interested in wanting to seek any help for this let alone acknowledge your feelings on the matter. He gets what he wants out of the relationship, what about you?. What do you get out of this relationship now?.

I would seek legal advice asap, knowledge is power as well. You are not as powerless as you think.

What TheRhubarb has written.

I'd be informing him today that he will be staying with his parents for the foreseeable future.

Thanks fella.

I know what you're all saying and I am terrified of change. I am terrified of being left on my own. After watching my parents go bankrupt when I was a teenager, I am terrified of struggling financially. Life with him is Safe. Emotionally empty, but safe.

He's always been a bit stunted on the emotional side of things. That's how his family are. They've never been very tactile or expressive. Probably think that sort of thing is for wimps. His dad is a bit old school.

He does like to kiss and cuddle, he's not as bad as them, and he's always been adventurous in bed. He can't talk about it though, whereas I was brought up on a diet of Jane Austin and romance and probably overthink everything.

I'm going to have to log off now, have to do school run, get teas ready and then make our dinner but I will be back later. I'm so grateful for your help. I wish I could talk to him like this. We just end up confusing each other.

"He does like to kiss and cuddle, he's not as bad as them, and he's always been adventurous in bed. He can't talk about it though, whereas I was brought up on a diet of Jane Austin and romance and probably overthink everything".

He can't talk about it - to me that says he has massive problems with intimacy as a direct result of a long term reliance on porn. He is also emotionally stunted like his parents which is probably how the porn dependency started.

If he is emotionally unavailable to you, you are alone within your marriage. You are for all intents and purposes on your own now because he is not the H you need or deserve. He is truly not worthy of you. I think you have stayed primarily because of the fear of breaking free; by being with this man though you stop you from eventually meeting someone new. Not all men have a reliance on porn by any means.

A safe life but an emotionally stunted one is not the legacy you really want to be leaving your children.

Let him read this complete thread ,it should give him an idea of how others agree with you. Maybe he would be brave enough to answer us.

I feel so sad that you feel this is all you could possibly strive for.

I'm sorry that your parents divorce made you feel this way, but money is not everything you know. My kids see us struggle. We can't afford to pay for the many after school clubs, we get them second-hand uniforms, we buy basics from the supermarket and family holidays are budget, low-key affairs. But we are happy and the kids can see this. I would hate it if my kids thought that money trumped happiness. Sure you might not want for anything, oh apart from love and affection. Those things are priceless.

Look, you are clearly not happy. You clearly want things to change. I asked you if you could spend the rest of your life like this and you didn't answer. I think it's a pertinent question because he is obviously happy living like this and sees no reason to change. Not only that but he refuses outright to change. So your only option is to either put up and shut up or get out.

You won't be struggling for money. He will have to pay child maintenance. You could sell the house and split it, £70k is a bloody good mortgage deposit. You'd also get single parent benefits and so on. So you won't be as badly off as you think. Or you could stay in the house as you are. He cannot force you to move. If you are the primary carer of the children then you get the house.

It is not your concern where he lives or how he manages financially. Those are his concerns. He created this problem, he has refused to tackle it, he has shoved all the chances you gave him back into your face, now he has to grow up and accept the consequences of his actions.

And in the meantime, you've not said that you love him yet. Do you? Or do you just feel comfortable with the lifestyle that he gives you?

I think you are missing out on a huge part of life here. Your marriage will become one of mere convenience. And as the years roll by, your bitterness will show more, your unhappiness and lack of confidence will show more and are you still telling me that the kids wouldn't notice?

Write down where you want to be in 10 years time and then make that your aim in life. The best example you can show to your kids is a strong, confident woman who is happy not only in herself but her relationships too. You are role models for your kids. They look up to you, they want to be just like you. Remember that.

I do love him. I still fancy him. I can't imagine not growing old with him. We've been together nearly twenty years, since we were teens. I met him just after my parents bankruptcy and subsequent relocation to a council house, and he's been through tough times with me. I lost both my parents before I was thirty. His mother now has cancer. We have a lot going on and I thought it had made us a really close tight couple.

I just can't get past this obsession of his with looking at other women. Nor can he. He admits he's got a problem but doesn't bother to do anything. He doesn't think it's an issue. He doesn't take me seriously when I say I don't like it because he thinks I'm overreacting.

It almost is a marriage of convenience sometimes. He goes out to work and pays all the bills. I'm the parent at home so I do the house stuff. I could never earn what he earns, he's in a specialist job with years of training and experience which I don't have. I'm never going to be able to support myself financially without claiming benefits.

We get on really well until I catch the porn stuff happening again and then it all goes pear-shaped again. He pretty much ignores the problem until it goes away. Which it has to because life goes on whether I want it to or not. Kids and school and housework still happen and life goes on. We have this cycle and then before you know it everything is back to normal.

I don't know what I'm going on about now, it's getting late and I'm tired. Writing is definitely cathartic though, perhaps I should start a blog. 'Life With A Virtual Cheat'. Catchy.

Anyway, thank you for all your advice. I am saving this thread and will come back and read it often.

So neither of you have had much experience of being with other people then? You've been thrown together through circumstance and tragedy?

The alarm bells for me ring when you say that he knows he has this issue, but that he thinks you are overreacting = therefore you are the one with the problem not him. In fact I doubt he even sees it as a problem at all, I think he sees it as your problem. He won't do anything about it if it's not a problem for him will he?

He has his wife at home who he can have physical sex with, who looks after the children and the home and he has this fantasy world with these other women which is based purely on lust. This fantasy world he has must be a pretty strong lure for him to forsake your marriage. It does sound as though he's addicted. Unfortunately if you can't even make him see that it's his problem rather than yours, then this situation will never change.

Yes life goes on whether you want it to or not, but it sounds as though you scream at him, tell him that you want it to stop, he waits until you've calmed down and then carries on doing it until he's caught again. Which he will be because he knows you check up on him, he knows you check his browsing history and sometimes he can't even be arsed to log out. That indicates that he doesn't care about being caught, that he wants you to accept it.

This is potentially very damaging for you. Slowly your confidence will erode as it has done already. You believe that you are to blame, that it's because you've put on weight. You don't realise that the weight you've put on could be a symptom of how unhappy you actually are. If you carry on this way, how do you think you will feel in another 10 years?

Then there are the children. Yes they will find out. If he's not even bothering to log himself off, if he doesn't see it as a problem, then they will stumble across what he has been doing. They may come to think of that as a normal part of relationships too. They will watch you sink further into depression whilst their dad wanks off to live webcam sex and meets up with escort girls.

And why would he contact these escorts if he wasn't planning to take it further? Are you going to just brush this under the carpet too? Pretend you didn't see it? He is no longer contended with web cam sex, he wants to act it out for real, with these strangers.

I'm sorry but this situation is a mess. If you don't act now, it will get harder and harder for you to do something about it. Don't kid yourself that you are staying with him for the kids, you are just fearful of change. The kids would be better off with a single parent i.e. you than with a father who is addicted to porn and who is willing to watch his wife crumble before him rather than do anything about it.

It's threads like this that make me want to reach out and shake you, because I know that this advice will most probably fall on deaf ears. Please prove me wrong.