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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I just don't know what to think about my marriage anymore, I could do with some advice. Long, sorry.

72 replies

Dawnybabe · 18/04/2012 14:22

Bit of background; my dh has a long history of porn. Have caught him looking at it on the computer so many times I've lost count. He knows I don't really like it, I feel compared and slighted and almost cheated on in a way, but he still continues to look at it. He has downloaded thousands of images of women, I know because I found them all at christmas and we had a bit of a row about it.

Since then I have found more stuff with this years date on. He obviously didn't take my complaints seriously and can't stop himself and is still doing it. I went to use the computer the other day and he was still logged in. I couldn't help myself and checked his browser history. As well as all the porn sites, there were live chat sites with webcams where you could watch. I assume he has been watching real women in real time getting undressed and doing all sorts.

What comes next? I asked him if he planned on anything else like having an affair and he was shocked and said of course not. I don't know if he'd go that far and I don't know when he'd find the time because if he's not working or fishing he's home with us. He's never been one for going out or socialising with anyone. I guess he likes to do it from the privacy of his own home.

I have told him several times that I don't like it and divorce would be on the cards if he didn't buck his ideas up. Whenever I try to discuss it with him he sort of clams up and can't see that there is a problem or goes monosyllabic on me. I feel as if I'm to blame in some way as since the dc's came along I have definitely got a bit chunkier and feel very self-conscious in bed, and of course my sex drive has hit an all time low, although imagining him imagining these other women doesn't help. He says he loves me and doesn't want anybody else but I just don't feel as though I trust him anymore.

I actually sat last night and worked out how I would cope financially without him. I realised that if we sold this house and paid off the mortgage, it would leave us with nearly £70,000 each. I could easily live on that for a few years if I rented somewhere until smallest dc is at school and then I could get a job. I told him this and he was a bit shocked, although we were in bed and I think he was half asleep so don't know if he took it in.

But then when he came home from work yesterday I had cooked dinner, made him his favourite cake and we all sat and had a nice dinner together. Why would I even think of spoiling that? We moved house when eldest dc was little and had nearly a year of regression to self-wetting. I can't put my lovely kids through all that just for my sake. I told him what a sap he had married and how he didn't deserve me being nice to him and he just laughed and gave me a hug.

Thank you if you've got this far. Writing this all out has been very cathartic.

I honestly can't see me ever leaving this marriage but I am very, very unhappy.

OP posts:
differentnameforthis · 20/04/2012 00:06

Sorry OP, to answer you..although I am not sure there is much I can say that hasn't already been said.

I don't have a huge issue with porn, but videos would be a definite no no for me. That is way to intimate a step for a married to be taking & I think I do agree that it is cheating.

I think your method of making the discovery - having it out with him - then sulking for a week is very ineffective. You said yourself that you are carrying on as normal, so he will think that he has got away with it.

You need to decide how much it bothers you & how you are going to make him see that. For instance, if my dh watched live time videos, I certainly would not be making his favourite cake & cooking him dinner.

Even if your dh did have the potential to change, he isn't going to as you are making enough of a song & dance about this. He thinks he can do it & get away with it.

differentnameforthis · 20/04/2012 00:19

you are not making enough of a song & dance about this

What I am trying to say, is that he has no real consequences, so no real reason to stop.

fiventhree · 20/04/2012 14:24

Boring, you say you wish that your DP would throw away the router too.

Have you considered that, having identified that as at least a problem in your life, you are responsible for sorting it out , and noone else?

Dont get me wrong, Im not judging you. I know quite well that what my h did is entirely his own fault and not that of the women involved.

However, the women havnt even a clue about what part they played in bringing down my family. And they did play a part, however small. They thought it was actually fun that he was married, often, it gave them an added kick.

If you had seen the state of my 15 year old when she found out too, I think it would reduce you to tears. And she wont ever forget it, will she?

This kind of behaviour has consequences, for your life, your familys, and for other people. And even for your own life alone, the consequences are not slight.

Please dont take this as a personal criticism or a moralist judgement, because it isnt, truly.

My h has made great progress in working through the consequences, for him, and for family. I have also made it quite clear to him that I think there were consequences for some of those women too, for which he is responsible. They were not nothing, they were people too, and the fact they were willing and keen to participate does not excuse that.

OP, very sorry for the interjection- I dont usually do this. I havnt ever met anyone on mn who has raised this as a participant, and I really think it is relevant and needed saying.

AnyFucker · 20/04/2012 17:26

five, you are right, it needed saying

boring what are doing is damaging to your family...but especially to you

cheap, empty thrills are worth so much to you ?

boringnickname · 20/04/2012 17:27

fiventhree that was really hard to read, because i know there is so much truth in it and know that you are exactly right. I am so very sorry that you have gone through this, of course your post made me feel horribly guilty, no more than i deserve to be fair, and yes, it is relevant and needed saying. Of course you are not saying nothing that, deep down i don't already know.

I didn't post on this thread to try and minimalise the effects that this has on relationships, just trying to make the OP not be so hurt by it, if that makes any sense.

You know, these women who log on to these sites (i am not a member of anything other than general chat sites and don't have a provocative screen name, but EVERY single man who has spoken to me doesnt get far before they ask sexual questions, so i am assuming that other women on the sites have the same approach, i dont have pictures on my page and i do not have a webcam, most of the men want to see pics and webcam) What i am trying to say is, i dont think that your H is guilty of taking advantage of vulnerable women, i don't consider myself a vulnerable woman, im 41 years old so hardly niave, i think most of the women on those sites know their own minds. Of course there are always going to be those that dont, i accept that.

For me, i have no interest whatsoever in what someone looks like and never look at cams or pictures, its all about sharing fantasies and having it grow (the fantasy!) into some sort of erotic scenario. It became stupidly addictive and in the end not particularly enjoyable - i am now starting to see it as what it is, and its all abit sad really.

My DP did find out about it (even though he actually knew anyway) because he read a whole conversation between me and a "friend" who i had been chatting to for quite some time - of course he was hurt and i thought that it would finish us, it didn't, i swore to him that i would stop and i meant it, but he said you know boring, its ok, really, so long as it goes no futher than this Shock (i have bdsm fantasies that was what it was about, DP is vanilla so felt it was ok for some reason)Heres the thing, i really wish that he said to me, NO it is not OK, stop now. It would have given me the impetus to stop. Not that im putting the blame on him for my inability to give it up. You were so right when you say that the only one who can stop it is me.

Even though there were real people typing on the other side of the internet somewhere, it never really felt real - i suppose my motivation was to feel sexy, i dont know. It did make me feel sexy, i found it extremely erotic, i wont lie.

Im talking in past tense, because I am not doing this anymore the threads over the past few weeks on here have made the effects of this thing realer than i wanted to admit to myself and it stops now. Within a few days of turning my back on it, i feel happier in myself, like a huge weight has been lifted.

I am glad you have managed to work through things with your H, i hope things go well for you i really do, and i hope he will be your DH again real soon.

I cant apologise to you personally for the hurt, but please know that the thought of hurtin anyone is so far from my mind, its not an excuse but i am very sorry xxx

AnyFucker · 20/04/2012 17:31

am glad you have decided to stop Smile

fiventhree · 20/04/2012 20:06

Thank you, Boring.

I did know quite well that you didn?t come on the site to cause offense. It was clear from what you said that you were trying to reassure the OP. For myself, it was useful as well, as it confirmed what my own h has said to me during a trying period where I had been lied to so much that I did not know really what to believe. So I bear you no ill will whatsoever.

Also, you are right, it did need saying. And thank you too, as I needed to say it, and to someone such as yourself.

My h didn?t use a webcam either, but did request photos. Out of interest, he has also now told me since this was revealed that he has similar BDSM fantasies. The fact he chose NOT to share those with me over 22 years is his issue, not mine. He didn?t want to admit it to himself, and clearly had a tiny bit of a Madonna/whore thing going on. Although, in his case, how it works is: ?middle class boy from dysfunctional family fucks up at school but gets nice grammar school graduate to marry him so he can feel less worthless himself, and then choose not to ?taint? the relationship with his truth?. And a working class one to boot, to support his shiny socialist image.All that is true, but also convenient for him, I would say.

In terms of vulnerable women, my h has said that he never asked their age and in fact it wasn?t of relevance to him. I believe that. However, he also admits that very many of them were under 25, and some as young as 18. Personally, I don?t doubt for a minute that a few claimed to be 18 but were younger, as I did a Yahoo search on pool and heard that this was the case on occasion. I do think the size of that age difference anyway is horrible, ie 18/50, more so where the older one is the man, and with daughters older than that.

In addition, I do think that, if it were me doing it, I would have had to ask myself whether some of those women were very troubled in their lives, and whether approaching them in this way was likely to perpetuate their issues, or worsen them. The evidence is that in most cases people who become addicted to this do have many troubles, and often from their past. At the very least, they are conflicted and maybe stressed. Yes, they have chosen to, and also other people would approach them if not me, but does that make it right if I do? It seems to me it doesn?t.

Do you see what I mean? It is about personal responsibility. My h, for instance, was initially disgusted when I suggested to him that he would therefore be OK if someone approached our own daughters like this (they are nearly 16 and 24). That made me very angry with him, as it is not acceptable for something to be OK for you to do, at the same time take a view that it is not OK for others to do to your offspring, is it? Everyone is somebody?s child.

In your case, there does not seem to be the same level of overt dishonesty at home going on, as there has been in mine, so well done for that. Although we both know that the damage is about more than this, as the behaviour does become addictive over time and diverts you from alot of other personal and family stuff you could be doing, with knock on consequences for other family members.

I am very glad for you that you have decided to stop. Quite frankly, there is plenty of room for fantasy fun within a marriage, in most cases. Vanilla is a funny term, anyway, I think, and most of us are quite open to experimentation. After a long marriage, especially. It can be quite dull being only the ?vanilla? wife, and my h was a bit surprised to find that out. Not that he could probably remember that well, given the effect his private sex life online eventually had on our own.

Finally, can I recommend to you two book, both by Patrick Carnes.

One is called ?Out of the Shadows- understanding Sexual addiction?, and the other is ?the betrayal bond- breaking free of exploitative relationships?. Whilst I think that the notion of sex addiction per se is very problematic, compulsive may be a better way of looking at it, I do think you ill find both of those books (which are quite different) revelatory, as will your h. They can be bought second hand for under a fiver each on amazon.

boringnickname · 20/04/2012 20:57

Thankyou for your understanding fiven, your husband is lucky to have you. For me, it was always about self esteem, my career went pfft and my image of myself a sexual person sort of fizzled out, despite a good sex life. I certainly have no issues from childhood. I know exactly what you mean about children, i have a 21 year old and the thought just leaves me cold and sick to my stomach, some dirty old man getting his rocks off is enough to make the red mist descend. Who was I kidding that this didn't matter????

springydaffs · 20/04/2012 21:03

At last, someone has used the term 'sex addict', which is what your husband is OP.

an addict is an addict, regardless of their habit/substance. The effects are exactly the same: the truly devastating effects of living with/loving an addict is that they are unavailable in the purest sense, unavailable for emotional intimacy. They already have the love of their life and, when it comes down to it, will put it first, before anything and anyone else. while all the while justifying and minimising it.

I think you know in your guts OP that something is really not right but you don't quite know what. It is frustrating (actually, emotionally lacerating tbf) when an addict refuses to take seriously his/her addiction and the effects it has on his/her relationships. Read the books OP, gen up on sex addiction. It will be difficult to face but imo it is better than dying a slow death, which is what you're faced with if you invest in a relationship with an addict.

Dawnybabe · 20/04/2012 22:52

Perhaps I'd better read those books.

I just tried to talk to him. Asked him if he was happy and where did he see our marriage going. He did his usual thing and completely clammed up. I think he thinks if he doesn't acknowledge there's a problem, there isn't one. If he wanted to break up with me I've given him the opportunity to say so. I told him if he isn't happy he has to actually say something or nothing will change.

He went to bed.

I really don't know what to make of it to be honest.

I did think of asking him to read this thread but he's a bit dyslexic and has trouble with a lot of words at once. I don't think he'd read it all.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 20/04/2012 23:35

I told him if he isn't happy he has to actually say something or nothing will change.

Dawny, the same applies to you

ThePinkPussycat · 21/04/2012 01:34

Possibly a risky strategy but you could try telling him you've had a think and would like to hear more about the porn he watches. Reverse psychology - if he is doing it because you don't like it?

boringnickname · 21/04/2012 09:17

In all honesty dawny I thinks if my dp had said those things too me id have scared me into recognising that this is not ok I thinks you dh probably is scared and clamming up. If you think some straight talking from a real person would help him too realise that it is all too really please pm me

boringnickname · 21/04/2012 09:19

Sorry posting on phone

PillarBoxRedRoses · 21/04/2012 09:37

I did what boring did, but when I was a teenager (age does make all the difference IMO). I had low self worth, and all it did was make me feel more worthless. I stopped pretty soon, but some don't. It is an addiction and ultimately usually causes hurt to those involved - on either side. I did feel exploited and used and it took me a long time to get over that.

Fairenuff · 21/04/2012 10:28

I just tried to talk to him. Asked him if he was happy and where did he see our marriage going. He did his usual thing and completely clammed up

This would drive me mad. Who the hell does he think he is? He is treating you really badly, not a thought for your feelings, not even considering how it affects you at all Shock

I don't know how you can take it, Dawny. I would be telling him exacty where the marriage was going - down the drain!

Maybe you are not ready to face up to it yet. As you say, nothing will change. This will go on and on and on and he does not give a tiny rat's arse.

You are already supplying him with excuses not to face up to this. He can't read the thread? Read it to him!

fiventhree · 21/04/2012 11:51

Dawny

Those books confirmed what I already knew to be the case from hard experience ie that he would not change unless faced with a real crisis. I spent nearly 6 years trying to get him to talk to me, and with no success. Just like you are doing. What finally happened, is that I snapped, but for me, not him. We had had a period of about 10 days after the last photo appeared, and I was very patiently confronting him, and in a very non accusing way. Then I suggested an early night, so we could get away from teenagers and just talk. It turned into a shambles around issues with a teenager, where he actually laughed at a nasty letter I had received from a stropping 15 year old re her share of the housework. I got up, got dresses, moved into the spare room and that was it. The Relate counselling was a couple of weeks later, and it took him a month to open up, as he finally realised that this time it was not going away. Patrick Carnes, which I read later, this year, mentions that for most, it takes a real crisis to effect change, and sometimes an external one. Obviously, he is trying to cover a whole range of types of sex addiction, and some much worse ones, but really the issues are exactly the same, regardless of the type. (see the first book)

It is water off a ducks back to them if they dont feel threatened. And anyway, if a crisis of that sort doesnt change them, then you have just found out what you would have later on, which is that they have no intention of stopping under any circumstances.

AF's comment to you is spot on.

fiventhree · 21/04/2012 11:53

By the way, the second book is fantastic for understanding why you are attracted to fixing this type of person. It isnt about just the most exploitative relationships, eg violence, but relates to alot of us.

Pillar, you are exactly the type of young woman I had in mind. Glad you are out of it.

PillarBoxRedRoses · 21/04/2012 12:46

Me too. Years ago, but still effects me!

PillarBoxRedRoses · 21/04/2012 13:03

*affects. Not usually my grammar.

PillarBoxRedRoses · 21/04/2012 15:43

Reading this again makes me think I should write something about my experiences so men who do this, who often have daughters at the age I was, can hear about the effect it has on young, vulnerable girls. I am not a victim, but I could give someone a pretty good picture of what the consequences are. And - I am one of the lucky ones.

Sorry to butt in on your thread OP. I hope things work out. You've had some good advice.

fiventhree · 21/04/2012 15:58

Start a thread. I will read it.

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