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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Welcome to the Turning Tavern II: Now in 3D

999 replies

Gay40 · 18/04/2012 12:11

Welcome!

OP posts:
Gay40 · 23/04/2012 23:36

Fat ninja, I said. Fat ninja.

OP posts:
Gay40 · 23/04/2012 23:37

I can't skate, either.

OP posts:
Gay40 · 23/04/2012 23:47

I wonder when likea will update us on her Sunday arrangement.

OP posts:
likeatonneofbricks · 24/04/2012 00:25

Hi ladies, nice to be back on thread - a lot to catch up with! best news is sleep's massage - so pleased that it went amazingly well and yo uboth enjoyed it (over an hour? she MUST like your touch, and you must really feel what she likes which is another proof of your connection!). Don;t worry about her date, pretty sure shge'd be bored and feel something is lacking - your company AND touch!
polly, isn;t that EXACTLY what i warnedyou about several times and what I'm seriously worried about?? look at you, one date and you already three steps up with your crush! it's exactly what i said - that if it gies well, i,e, you like her, you get to know her, yo may cruh harder and this is dangerous and can end up in misery for YEARS (I've been there). I really don;tthink you should go on dates, if you must, give it one more tome when she can drink, not because she'll turn but she may talk about it and you both may bne more honest or open. Of course she didn't mention the gay thing because she doesn't want to, and you assured her you don't want to turn her so it would be strge if she strated on that. tbh I think you should drop it and IF she chases you in any way, then possibly give it one more shot. The more effgorts you do, the more you get involved! it's like getting sucked into a marsh! you see, sleepless done the right thing by being honest, at least now her wiq knows about it and still hasn't rejected her so it means she's considering, whether openly or not. With yours, I still think she's dng, and if she wasn't (1% chance) then she would go after you, and not just as friend (i.e. don't reaf too much if she wants another drink sometime). I don;t understand the encouragenent from others really - as far as I'd advise is to get a few drinks into her, as LOveis suggests, but even that at a strentch. Since my absence (just one day) you already sound more vulnerable, it's very noticeable!
Seen my wiq but as predicted, no news as such. Yesterday she had yet another drunken lunch - seems a habot now on subdays! I like it in a way as she's very warm and smiley then and definetely more open for chat - she had a friend with her for a while, a really loud annoying one, who monopolised her (argh), so I got shorter time with her than could have. The only thing is that during their chat the friend rudely (lloudly) asked her age, and I'm shocked to find out that she's older than i thought! Quite upsetting actually (plus hte sop call friend also said 'oh well how long have we got, could as well drink [shocj]) - i was so angry. But really I'm upset re age, it means she's less likely to get involved in something new and RADICAL and also that she is quite a bit older than me (if we wre both younger but same age gap wouldn't matter, just thinking how much risks people go for and how much physically they are up to). She is beautiful and i don't feel any less, but it's the health (and she does pops pillls) that can stop her from any relationships. She looks so much younger than the 'friend' no comparison (and beautiful). Anyawy when she was drunk ther was a cosu chat with me if not so long, a lot eye contact as i feel more brazen when she's in this state, andshe didn't look away. She's got amazing eyes. Today shje was sober so again minimal chat as very busy, both. Ended on usual friendly note but nothing new.
sorry for a long post!

likeatonneofbricks · 24/04/2012 00:27

G40 thanks for asking btw!

sleeplessindenial · 24/04/2012 08:24

Morning Smile

I know what you mean about the age thing likea, wiq is older than me and I think her circumstances in life will make her less likely to want to take risks. If anything I am more convinced than ever that she doesn't see herself having a relationship etc with me, I am pretty sure that she has thought about it and that she has feelings for me but I don't think she will act on them.

sleeplessindenial · 24/04/2012 08:39

I am just off to meet wiq again. She is very excited about her date and it makes me feel jealous. Still haven't seen her with her other friends yet but we are going out with them on Saturday so I will soon see whether it is just me or not. She sits so close to me, always looks into my eyes she spent ages right up close tonne yesterday trying to work out what colour my eyes are

I just can't stop thinking about her, it has got so much worse since yesterday, I definitely feel less confused and more sure of my feelings for her women?? though

Loveisthemessage · 24/04/2012 13:02

Likea - Can't get into sweeping generalisations but I will Do you think women are more set in their ways in their 50s (assuming your WIQ is in this bracket) and are women in their late 30s/early 40s perhaps a little less cautious having seen the dim light with men and therefore more open to turning? You'd have thought women would get more devil-may-care as they get older but maybe this is not the case.

pollyblue · 24/04/2012 13:48

Likea so what would you suggest I do then? Write to her and say 'sorry, just realised that I do fancy you after all so it's probably best I don't see you again?'

I don't feel vulnerable.

pollyblue · 24/04/2012 14:09

In retrospect the one thing I wish I had said to her on Saturday night was 'so, why did you ask me out for a drink then?' (back in March, when she still thought I fancied her.) Because I still don't think she's the sort who would've asked someone for a drink if she wasn't interested in them and didn't want them to get hold of the wrong end of the stick. She might be a bit flakey/unpredictable in some respects but now I've spent 4 hours head-to-head talking with her I think I can safely say when it comes to 'that sort of thing' she is very clear-headed and cautious.

I was pretty sober on the night (despite bird-cage mouth the next morning) and very careful not to touch/look too lingeringly etc - anything that might give her the creeps really. But she was very close/tactile with me.

pollyblue · 24/04/2012 14:17

I'm not trying to convince myself there's a chance that there's something there when there very obviously isn't, I'm just saying how it seems to be as honestly as I can. It's interesting that people in the Tavern are interpreting it in quite different ways. I'm quite baffled by the whole thing Smile

pollyblue · 24/04/2012 14:18

I'll shut up now Grin

teedeeuk · 24/04/2012 15:28

Polly, fwiw sod all my opinion is that it would have been a different evening altogether if she'd been able to have a drink.....

pollyblue · 24/04/2012 15:34

teedee Grin that's a thought that warms my cockles.

pollyblue · 24/04/2012 15:37

crushing if I was near Watford would I happily come along but million miles away sadly. Respect to you for garnering your courage and going along, hope you have a lovely night.

Loveisthemessage · 24/04/2012 18:26

Polly - i still maintain and am probably going against the Tavern tide on this (Likea...hold onto your bricks) but never say never. I was absolutely 100% most DDNG and look where that got me. If there is a vibe, there is a vibe. She may just need more time and/or a different situation - your home or hers and a few hundred more drinks to unleash her inner les I think she's curious and curiosity in my book means your still open. I still think the door is open.It hasn't slammed shut yet.

Loveisthemessage · 24/04/2012 18:27

typo alert: you're still open

Loveisthemessage · 24/04/2012 18:28

I'm forever hopeful.

likeatonneofbricks · 24/04/2012 18:32

polly, how can you say you don'r feel vulnerable if you said earlier that now you are getting to know and like her even more, and you said you were worried that you'll develop very strong feelngs? this is what I'm worried about, it's like watching a train gathering speed towards a (real)crush. She doesn't feel the same way so this makes you vulnertable - you always try very hard to please her always, so this is also a dependent behaviour. If you keep seeing her and falling more and more you will be miserable. What I meant was - you don't have to explain anything specific, just don't intiate anything again. If she does press for a another drink youu could give it one more shot if you really want to (but makesure it involves drink so that you definitely hear some answer - and do ask her while drinking if you feel any vibes. Or, second option, if she asks you out you could say at that point that you do fancy her as now you also like her a lot and can't help it, and then see - if she cancels that's your answer. If not - then we could be somewhere. As to being tactile, that's almost funny - she's a trained massage therapist and 'done lots of people', it's just friendliness. I'm not tactile - to me massaging straners is a revolting thought, I'm tactile only with pets or people I love (not over the top), but she's by nature touchy feely if she could do prof.massage. Sleep's wiq is comletely different - she looks in her eyes for ages, constantly arranges to spend time with her, asked for massage, tells her lots of compliments - I know she's a different personality but it's still more than a tactile friendle person would do!
Loveis, sadly my wiq is pretty much out of 50s bracket, it's not so much being set in your ways, it's this sense of not being up to much physically and emotionally meaning too much of excitement and radical change. It's even more so social life - they just don't wantto disturn friends' opinions at this stage and same with children. My wiq isn't involved with a man either even though she had offers = i think if she's purely hetero she could have a lver, but it looks like she prefers to live by herself, so wouldn't want much involvement. The pesky friend didn't help with her comment as to 'how long have WE got, could as well get drunk'. I think if awoman of this age has her children settled and is very open minded, she'd be fine with switching, my wiq still preoccupied with one of her children, even though noticeably less stressed but he's a bit unclear as to his future I take it and she's worried. So a woman with no children (or well settled ones) is more fair game, I'd say. She would have more ROOm for a person in her life, more emotional space.

likeatonneofbricks · 24/04/2012 18:39

Loveis you don't need to refer to my opinion (I don't have the habit of throwing bricks Grin) or apologise for yours. I go by the fact that so far I haven't been wrong many times (everyone was against sleep getting involved at some point and i was shouting at her not to finish with the woman). I just have a strong feeling that polly's wiq is not interested in being bi/gay/polly's lover. Sometimes i feel that on this thread people encourage every situation (apart fronm that one moment when sleepless was speeding a million miles an hour), regardless. Do you really want polly get stuck onsomeone for years for NO GOOD REASON? wht do you actually see in her wiq's behaviour that makes you encourage polly? I'm all for discussion, for giving reasons, but against (non agressively Grin) the blind encouragement.

likeatonneofbricks · 24/04/2012 18:43

I can't see the vibe, that's the point, but I did say quite a few times now that if polly wants to really have her answer (yes ot a no) she must get the wiq drinking (but just once should make it clear) - can't see how I'm that different fron what you suggest, apart from not seeing the vibe fron the wiq. Remember that polly assured her she had no agenda, only then they managed a meeting. Surely she's feel guilty for turning her down as a friend, and ewhy not be friends (wiq thinks).

likeatonneofbricks · 24/04/2012 18:46

p.s. - in what way is she curious, Loveis? if I was asked out by a gay woman who I didn't want to get involved with, but she told me that she wants to befriends, i'd feel close minded and guilty and even harsh to just say no. I'd think, maybe she does want a female friend, must be hard life to have all staight women avoiding her, and I'd go for the drink. It's not curiousity.
sorry for drip feeding.

pollyblue · 24/04/2012 19:11

Blimey Likea I do like your stream of consciousness posts....! Will read more closely in a mo. But to pick up on your posts to Loveis - the odd thing is she asked me out for a drink, not the other way round! I did point out a couple of weeks ago I wasn't after turning her, but I certainly didn't pester her to go out and as she asked me, why would she feel guilty about turning me down? Because she did the asking in the first place.

I don't think for a minute she would feel 'closed minded and guilty' - I initially asked her out a year back, it hadn't happened but we'd been in regular contact - happily, getting on fine, with no expectation from me that we ever would go for a drink by then, I never mentioned it - then when we hadn't seen each other for several months the first thing she says is going for a drink.

pollyblue · 24/04/2012 19:14

if I was asked out by a gay woman who I didn't want to get involved with, but she told me that she wants to befriends, i'd feel close minded and guilty and even harsh to just say no.

So would you then (because I would imagine you wouldn't want to give the gay woman any wrong impression) sit practically nose to nose with her, stroke her arm, squeeze her leg, maintain eye contact for a good chunk of the night and kiss her twice? WIQ might be tactile but she's not daft.

sleeplessindenial · 24/04/2012 19:15

I am so confused.

Had a lovely day with wiq as always, quite a lot of candid talking about past relationships, sex, life experiences etc I dropped a few heavy hints about bring surprised that I fancied a woman all over conversation about it has been by email and text never face to face bit was feeling brave and she was saying that she felt like we were in a relationship already. She said she missed me when I wasn't there, and that a few of her friends had started commenting on the amount of time we are spending together.

I'm not overly comfortable about posting text conversations on her, I feel it is violating her privacy but I could do with a perspective on the following:

Me: thank you for a lovely day

Her: I had a really lovely time, I love our random chats, I love you my new boyfriend. Xx

Me: you make me laugh you'd be the best girlfriend ever lol

Her: I will never cheat, lie or hurt you I promise

Me: I know, I trust you I am so happy I met you

Her: me to, you are so much more than just my friend xx

Me: well you know how I feel about you, I don't do a very good job of hiding it

Her: I don't want you to hide it i am proud to know you. xx

Confused