Trying to make sense of EA

[WhippingGirl]

If you have moved on from an EA relationship how did you separate what was EA stuff and what was simply not getting on?

honestly.....

I still haven't

it's been 2 years since I split up with him and I still find myself analysing every little remark, text message etc etc
I'm increddibly suspicious of new people and can't take anything at face value

but I recognise I'm doining it and working hard at stopping -even going so far as going on a date this week and I let my barriers dwn for the first time in ages and actually found myself enjoying it!

I'll be celebrating 1 year of freedom on Monday and I'm still working that one out.

I went on a Pattern Changing course which was really helpful. It was great for comparing notes with others and hearing them saying things that I'd been through too. It just felt very reassuring knowing I wasn't making it up or imagining it all. I was referred through my local DV service, a former branch of Women's Aid. I'd definitely recommend looking for a service near you.

I've also met someone recently and he's been helping me see things differently (not actively, just from noticing different behaviours). I keep surprising myself by realising what I just accepted as 'normal', but I'm also seeing ways in which my ex and I were just plainly incompatible.

How long have you been out of your relationship?

thanks folks - lots resonating with me. i have been out a few weeks. sometimes i look back and think i was quite bonkers/in denial/very very depressed to tolerate some of exp's milder behaviour. sometimes it all gets to me and i think maybe i was just a nightmare but i know really thats me being a bit weak. its like an internal struggle between the shame of sticking it so long and actually being quite happy/releived its over.

i'm starting with a counsellor soon but on the first phonecall she just lectured me about my plan if exp turns up at the house - it was like she oculdnt separate EA from DV even though i tried to explain. i was hoping she would talk me through exp's behaviour and say right 'thats EA - thats not' and so on. i need to try and make sense of it all.

in some ays i feel really ready to go on dates etc again and find that all really exciting/liberating but in other ways i think i will be constantly on the lookout for signs of EA in a new man which is really unfsir and prob means i'm not even slightly ready!!!

Don't start dating yet!! I was advised to give it at least a year (I managed 9 months )

"its like an internal struggle between the shame of sticking it so long and actually being quite happy/releived its over. " I probably said almost exactly the same thing a year ago. It really takes time to sort your head out but it's such an amazing feeling when you realise you're making progress.

I really recommend contacting Women's Aid. They'll do a risk assessment and advise you based on your actual experiences, not just assume there's violence involved like your counsellor has.

Good luck and relish your freedom. It's a great feeling

Have a look at this
I have it pinned to the inside of one of my kitchen cupboards and have just about accepted all of them now. A year ago I couldn't accept a single one.

oh dear. 15 of those are pretty relevent to me :-(

It's quite tough seeing it in black and white. My bf sometimes quotes them at me when I have wobbly moments.

You'll get there, but just don't expect it to happen overnight. There'll be really painful moments but suddenly you'll realise that less and less affects you and more and more you'll be able look at that list and confidently say that you KNOW you have those rights.

Sorry. Tired. That last sentence was crap!

i was very much told by exp it was me - that i caused all the drama. sometimes i think that might be true but i have plenty of friends and some really good relationships with exes so i cant be that much of a nightmare which takes me back to the oh god why did i stay with such a prat???

You have the right to ask the counsellor what s/he understands about emotional abuse. If that counsellor doesn't seem to get it then find one who does.
Read the stuff on the EA thread, have a look at the recommended books and sites.
Also v good to talk to is Respect.
You have a right to be confused/uncertain/not sure. It is a mindf* and you are probably still in the FOG of fear, obligation and guilt. But don't beat yourself up about it. It's a process to work out how the dynamics of your own abusive relationship worked but as you read and perhaps post various strands will come out as common to EA.
If you are not feeling good about the counsellor after the first meeting, go with your gut reaction. Trusting gut reactions is part of the way back from EA.

Sounds very familiar. I was the 'weird' one who nobody liked. I've just had the best year, have made loads of friends and realised more and more what a tosser he is.

OP - so wonderful to hear you're moving forward and can't imagine how tough it must be. Realise is just a teeny detail but how about a name change to reflect your new strength? Sounds like you've more than earned it!

thanks all. just been reading the womens aid links above. he def did the 'what a nice guy' act in public. makes it feel like i am massively exaggerating when i talk to friends about it or anyone really. i am so out of touch with normal relationship dynamics i think and whats acceptable from a partner. i see other couples i know bicker about the washing up or whatever then have a converstion about somthing else straight away with no animosity at all - i am usually quite astonished by this and find myself wondering if the dh will tear strips off the wife later when everyone has gone becauses thats what would hae happened to me.

this is my name change! its partly to remind me what i had become if you see what i mean?

I am so glad you have started this thread as I wanted to start one last night when I was very upset. I too am totally confused about what constitutes EA (apart from the obvious stuff like belittling, patronizing etc) and what is just actually two people not getting on at all/incompatible.

I think my relationship with DP has elements of emotional abuse as, although he can be very nice, but during arguments he sometimes belittles me (I could list the things he says but I don't want to steal your thread) etc. The things he has said to me over the 5 years we have been together always have the same underlying theme, belittling/not good enough. This has led me to feel SO resentful, resenment that I can't get over and can no longer love him.

However, he has recently said that I am "low level abusive" to him. I think I am emotionally pretty aware, and I feel that although I have been very moody with him due to new baby/tiredness and above resentment...I would hope I've not been emotionally abusive as I've not belittled him/called him awful names/punished him in any way etc......

BUT....I am now starting to really analyse my behaviour and think, shit, is it me? is it him? are we both EA?

I wanted to start a thread, like you, as I was hoping to try and get some clarity on what is construed as EA and what isn't.

I have been looking a lot at it recently, online etc, and I am wondering that in fact aren't we all capable of some EA traits?

I have recently been having some counselling and I said to my counsellor that before I started reading Mumsnet and looking at EA sites, I thought of most peoples behaviour as just that, human behaviour, some good, some bad....but now since I've started delving, it seems that everything has a label, what was just me being a mood because DP won't help with the washing up or look after the baby,is now me worrying that I am controlling. What was him giving me the silent treatment if I was late back is now him being passive agressive.

Do you see what I mean? Where does it all end? When is it just two people who quite frankly are just totally not happy together and full of frustration and resentment or when is it an emotionally abusive relationship?

Like you, I am confused about it all. I hope other people on here can help separate what is what.

Thanks for starting this thread.

hi tobeheard - hijack away i dont mind

'However, he has recently said that I am "low level abusive" to him. I think I am emotionally pretty aware, and I feel that although I have been very moody with him due to new baby/tiredness and above resentment...I would hope I've not been emotionally abusive as I've not belittled him/called him awful names/punished him in any way etc......' THIS!!!!!! yes exactly this is what exp said to me plus the accusations of being passive agressive. unless i am totally misunderstanding what it means i dont think i am at all.

i have accused of being controlling but i disagree - self preservation and objecting to behaviours which are directly detrimental to me is not controlling imo. like the link upthread - i am entitled to put myself first.

i reckon the thing with the labels is what helps separate not getting on and recognizable symptoms of a v specific pattern of behavior. with exp as it progressed the EA stuff actually got much more obvious even though he got better at it. i sued to challenge exp a lot about his EA - which made him ever so cross as you can imagine but then he did the whole 'you are imagining it - you are the one who is EA blah blah'

i need to add also.......and wonder if this happened to anyone else. over the years MY behavior declined too. i wasn't up there with exp but i remember saying things back to him and getting angry about htings i wouldnt have before. i wasnt like this with anyone else but i notice my temper is much shorter than in the past over stupid things like being impatient. its funny i was like that fater living in new york too but it wore off after a few weeks - maybe this will too!

But is this being EA for example? Please help me here.

Me (in snappy tone of voice as been up all night with vomitting ill toddler and she's crying for me and I come in kitchen and washing up not done)"..."Look, can you just help me out please and not leave your washing up (after I'd just done it and he left it on the side) as it just gives me more to do"..

Him (very defensive) "Oh fuck off, I'm going to work..."

Me (annoyed voice back) "I'm trying to look after an ill child and you just can't help out, you just put work first as always, it's so selfish...and do not speak to me like that please"

Him (walking out the door) "Oh just piss off, I've got to get to work ". (he is self employed by the way didn't have to be somewhere by an exact time)

Then I heard him call me a bitch under his breath as he went out of the door.

Later, we had words, he told me how I'd acted and spoken to him was "appalling" and that it was just washing up and I'd lost perspective and it was just washing up and that I should just ask him nicely and he'd do it and that actually a normal person wouldn't get so grumpy about it and that actually it was just an excuse to have a go at him. He didn't apologise about the way he spoke to me, just that I apparently spoke to him "appallingly".

Maybe I'm wrong here but yes, in an ideal world I wouldn't have snapped at him to help me, but when you've had no sleep, a 17 month old who is vomitting with norovirus and is very clingy and tearful and you;ve been washing sheets /clearing sick up half the morning and then your DP comes home, makes his lunch and leaves his washing up for you to do (as always), wouldn't you be rather snappy too? Of course, we'd all love to say "darling, I would be so grateful if you would just do your washing up as I'm very busy with our ill child".....but that just isn't the way always is it.

There is more to it but that's just an example.

So is being moody/snappy being EA? Is being angry and stating that annoyance EA? My counsellor said that's it's fine to feel anger sometimes and to let that out if you are annoyed.

Whipping Girl - can you give me some examples of EA from your perspective?

MY behavior declined too....
Totally! This is how I feel. I feel so angry and resentful and snappy and moody that sometimes I find it hard to be in the same room as him.

i think what the counsellor says is true in my opinion. i v much felt in my relationship that i was supposed to make allowances for exp biting my head off/starting a screeching session wheras he made no allowances for my behaviour during pretty much the exact circs you describe.

in my fantasy about what functional relationships are like what happens in this scenario is either the dh replies 'oh gawd have you had a bad night - anything i can do to help' or 'shall we have a cup of tea together before i go to work and a chat?' or he goes off to work and calms down a bit and phones up the wife to see if things are ok - or well you get the idea but the dh forgives the snapping by displaying some kind of sympathetic/supportive behaviour OR at the very least just lets the wife off for snapping because in the sceme of things it doesnt matter.

if that situation had taken place in my house my exp would have been delighted at the excuse to start a huge row about everything under the sun mostly why i dont make him happy and other guff :-(

tobeheard I wanted to answer you even if this isn't your thread initially ( nothing wrong with thread sharing IMO).
From reading your posts I get the impression your dp lacks sympathy and understanding and respect He will know why you are snappy but instead of acknowledging the cause and offering support he instead puts you in your place about how you should or should not treat him. That makes it all about him. He obviously wants you to treat him with the uttermost respect but, quite frankly, doesn't deserve it. If he's telling you to F off and piss off and name calling then he has no respect for you.

Personally I would shove his unwashed dishes where the sun doesn't shine.

One of the key things that stood out for me was when I acknowledged out loud that I felt like I was going mad. My ex spent a lot of time focusing on my mental health, telling me that I was 'wrong in the head'. I started to believe this and convinced myself that everything he was doing was either normal or in my imagination. It was a big deal for me to admit to this feeling because I was terrified DD would be taken away from me (part of the control) but I was more confident about it when I realised that this is a classic sign of EA.

EA can be hard to define at times, especially when there are just odd scenarios being considered rather than the whole picture. Have a look at the Women's Aid website for more information.

Thanks for starting this OP - been reading and it has really helped.

And tobeheard - the scenario you described is what I got every day in some way or form. Usually I would let it slide as I was a massive walk over, but every time I would fight back I got accused of treating him badly or being 'mental' or depressed. I did feel depressed a lot. 2 weeks out of relationship now and while I have a bucket load of issues I am certainly not feeling depressed or crazy anymore.

Another thing....(now I am hijacking!). Did anyone look at other people's relationships and think their female friends expected so much from their partners (stuff I was afraid to ask/demand)? I now realise I was just observing more normal, healthy relationships where both partners were equal.

EA is 'bullying'. It is using psychological, emotional and largely non-physical methods to keep the other person on the back foot, down, unsure of themselves, anxious to please, powerless... The colloquial term is 'head fuck'. Does not necessarily involve aggression. Can be done deliberately or can even be their default setting. Either way it means the bully has control of the relationship and the other party's behaviour is modified as they try to constantly please the bully, 'help' the bully resolve their problems, make excuses for the bully, or at least prevent another outburst.

The difference between EA and a plain old bad relationship is intention. If the intention is to manipulate or control that is different to occasional bad-tempered episodes.