dh is being a twunt about this and i dont know how to change it....

[crikeybill]

Basically I work full time and dh stays home. He has m.e so works freelance from home fixing computers and installing software. He hates getting up in the morning and I mean hates it. He is always really grumpy, takes ages to get going, has to exercise his legs, take tablets etc. Once he has been up a while, its all fine. He acknowledges what he is like if I talk to him about it in the evening, but it doesn't change. He just tells me to ignore his snapping , sarcastic remarks etc but it makes for such a shit start to the day.
My problem now is we have an 8 month old. We also have two older dc aged 9 and 10.
The 8 month old was an unplanned delight and he is great with him, we all enjoy him so much. Life has been great while I was on maternity leave and dh could rest but now he is looking after dc 3 days a week and oh the early morning issue has raised its head.
I have just left for work leaving dc3 in his bouncy chair next to dh. Dh lay on the sofa with his dressing gown over his head and refused to even open his eyes !! He snapped at me when I told him what dc3 needed today and just lay there groaning and moaning saying yes yes just go. I feel like shit, I'm so tired, my legs hurt blah blah.
I hate hate hate walking out and leavivg him like this. I know he will get up and care for him just fine but why does the day have to start so nasty ! Dc1 and 2 know what hes like and tend to stay out of his way till he's woke up a bit.
Hes not a bad person or dad, he's planning on making cakes for me with the older two today, he's just such a wanker in the morning.
He knows it upsets me , I left in tears today but he still does it. I know he's ill ffs but that doesn't mean his feelings always come first does it ?

When I say I want so much more, I mean for us, not I want someone else.

Crikey I do feel for you. You sound upset by it all and it's no wonder.

You are two people that obviously love each other but because of this damn illness you haven't got the life you wanted/planned and are feeling cross and fustrated taking it out on each other

I wonder if you sat down with him and said everything that you have on here. Tell him you are fed up with his behaviour but realise it is because he is ill and fustrated. That you love him but need to try to find a way to stop these situations every morning.

I think you are both amazing to cope with 3 young DC, this illness, both working, the house etc. You wouldn't be able to do that without working well as a team.

counselling for you could help.

he might refuse counselling but you may need support to deal with this situation. even a couple sessions could be worthwhile - ask your GP to refer for the NHS block of sessions. life has changed for all of you - but it doesnt need to be all bad... he is at home more and present. but you have all earning repsonsibility. that is tough. you need space to let it all out too. an pat yourself on back for doing a good job.

also some respite from his illness so maybe he could go stay with a relative or friend for a weekend from time to time?

or you can go off with dc to visit family or friends and he can rest?

Ah ok, moved on a bit since I suggested leaving a note.

Illness is awful for sufferer and carers/loved ones. It is pure hideous bad luck. Try to hold onto that fact, even when things are tough.

Sounds as though he really needs the ADs, particularly since he seems to have decided counselling is not for him. You could point out that, if he won't try different types of ADs to find one that works, he is not really doing everything he could do to help the situation. He has been prescribed them therefore he is in need of them, and understandably so.

It's such a shame he did not take to the counselling as there is so much to deal with - feelings of 'failure' for being ill and less able to contribute workwise and in the home, fears that your partner will leave you, fears for the future etc. There's no magic pill to work through all these issues in a constructive way (although ADs do help).

Have you asked him outright if he believes acting like that in front of the children is acceptable? Because he can't, surely. If he truly was contrite and wanted to change he would want to be proactive and work on a solution to make things easier for him in the morning (or at least not behaving badly). He really needs see his GP and counselling really does sound like a good idea. People think M.E. is just feeling a bit knackered everyday, but it truly is a horrible condition, because you look normal but can't be your real self and live the life you want and they're forever almost in reach but you never reach them, and help to come to terms with such a big thing is not anything to feel ashamed of. I don't think you think like that, OP, you sound very understanding and loving, just highlighting a point.

I had a friend with the same condition and he was awful to his girlfriend and DD when he felt v bad and felt justified. He was consumed with jealousy and bitterness that they were fit and healthy. You'll note that I say had a friend, because I took him to task over it. I told him it was like he was making his illness his mistress and expecting his wife and child to play second fiddle to it. By refusing to control his temper in the morning, your DH is treating you all like you are less important than his pain. Well, you're not.

my dp is awful in the mornings. We did live together but now are LAT, and the one thing i dont miss is the mornings.

When we were still living together I just ignored him in the mornings really. I used to get really upset over it, but if we just ignored each other it was ok.
I would avoid things like telling him what the children need. Thats up to him to know. Let him get on with it.

Its worth mentioning that with some illnesses its not just tired people feel. Ive had a lot of depression and have an anxiety disorder, and before i went on my antidepressants I used to feel so utterly fatigued most days it was horrendous. Its not normal tiredness and it was really really hard to function normally, especially at the beginning of the day. I would have probably not been happy or particularly nicely receptive to instructions or orders if they had been given at that time.

What's LAT Dinah?

My ex developed social anxiety (at least that was the diagnosis), which caused him to have physical pain and exhaustion.

Like you I had to learn to remember that he was not "normal".

Although at some point, particularly as it seemed that he was getting better, I did wonder how much was actually the condition and how much was laziness and generally being a (let's say) twat. We didn't finish because of his anxiety issues, BTW.

Your OH should be adapting as much as you. Maybe you can tell him that yes, it is an awful condition (could he have been burnt by overworking?), but his excessive grumpiness may eventually cause problems and that he also needs to find ways to deal with this. Even if counselling.

LAT is 'living apart together', so being in a relationship or marriage, but not living in the same household. I know as I also have a LAT marriage!

Thanks Mumsy. I too have a LAT relationship, I just didn't know it!

"Sometimes I feel cheated, and that makes me feel awful. I married a 6ft 2 workaholic who went out a lot had bags if confidence. We were going to do so much. Now I have someone totally different."

And he used to be a big, strong workaholic, who went out a lot and had bags of confidence.

He used to be someone totally different.

And now a horrible illness has taken that away from him. He must feel cheated of the life he planned as well as terrified of losing the bits he's managed to hold onto (you, the children, his work).

From reading the thread I agree that you need to make an executive decision about morning childcare for the baby. Your DH clearly isn't able for it.

It seems that you guys maintain something of a fiction that he is home to do SAHP duties and some freelance work, but the reality seems to be that he us too sick for looking after a baby, or much work.

It must be very hard for him to be at home and not be capable of looking after his own child, but that seems to be the reality at the moment. You might need to make that call for him.

I'm so sorry you guys are going through this :( The strain on you all must be enormous.

Just one other thing:

"They know money is an issue and that we can't do x y and z because " daddy is ill" "

That is not something for them to know.

9 and 10 year old children should not be concerned with household finances, and certainly not with the reasons money is short. Particularly if that reason seems to lay the blame at Daddy's door.

I hope you manage to have a talk and begin to work this out, such a difficult situation

I don't have me, but I am disabled and in constant awful pain. Things only really started getting 'better' when I accepted I couldn't cope with certain things, and mornings were one of them for various reasons. I tried to be 'brave' but sometimes all the determination in the world isn't enough, and I think that can be hard to see...sometimes people say "well I had x or y z but I just had to get on with it" but the truth is that doesn't mean everyone can.

I don't 'do' mornings now, I simply can't, and my darling darling H gets up everyday with the dc. I feel so guilty but there was no other way for us, and I think your DH might have to accept that for now morning childcare is a necessity

I don't for one minute condone his nastiness, but clearly something has to change for both your sakes

I feel for you. Sounds like a nightmare situation to be in.

Quick question: Is he this nasty to everyone when he's in pain, or just you? I don't expect you have many visitors in the morning, but if you did, if you had guests or were staying over at someone else's house, would he be this nasty to them too? Or are you the one he takes it out on?

I've just read the whole thread and I'm wondering if your DH is being so nasty in the mornings because he feels that he can't cope but is scared of telling you?

Just a thought.

OP, this is a horrible situation for your and your DH. I second the idea of simply arranging morning childcare and taking this responsibility completely out of your DH's hands for the time being. Explain it to him as a temporary measure if you need to (I'm sure he is dealing with a lot of hurt pride and feelings of worthlessness at the moment). But take that pressure away from him completely.

Reassess things in a month or two, once your DH has had a chance to stay in bed in the mornings and see if this helps him.

I really feel for you both and I hope the situation improves.

Being ill is not a free pass to abuse your partner and expect the household to revolve around you while you make no effort to improve the situation. This whinyarse is refusing any suggestions of ways to make things better for the family, which suggests that he is getting something out of seeing the OP go off to work in tears and come home to walk on eggshells.
CB, remember that you and the DC matter just as much as your H even though he's ill; get some childcare sorted in the mornings and remember you don't need his permission to do this. Make sure you are accessing all the support available to you as a family, benefits, counselling, whatever.

OP I mentioned down the thread that I have Fibromyalgia/ME and yes it does make me irritable sometimes because of the sheer pain exhaustion .

For those who say " I would never behave like that " , you simply cannot say how you would deal with a situation unless you are in it or have been.

OP I'm really sorry you are under so much strain.
I see for myself the impact my illness has my DH.
And I try my absolute hardest to keep our family life ' happy and stable.
Your DH needs to start to take responsibility for himself and look at ways in which he can help himself he needs to remember he has a family who need him.
He needs to try the ADs. They are a first line treatment and he should be willing to try anything that might help.
He needs to get fresh air and go for walks.
You need to be firm with him.
Have you thought of having a short break away from him so you can get some respite?
I often disappear to family for long weekends so that DH can relax.

You need to ensure you get some time on your own - it's essential .

Mornings are terrible for ME sufferers - be supportive , but I agree with all others to engage minimally with him at this time.
But at the end of the day - you have to go to work - and he needs to care for the children. He needs to accept this and deal with it- just as I have to.

Just to add Staying in bed in the mornings will not help your DH . Routine is very important. The less your DH does , the less he will be able to do.( Muscle wastage etc).

Some very practical things that help me in a morning -
DH washes and dresses the DC while I have a bath ( this really really helps - warm water is very helpful and I can come round slowly while my tabs take effect ).
DH makes me a coffee and brings me some cereal.
He then goes to work.
As I am better in an evening I get all the uniform ready etc for school.

Thank you so much for all your replies. I have read everything and am trying to take it in.
nannyplum those are lovely posts. With some great ideas. I have tried to stress to him the importance of routine and getting regular sleep, but again I am reminded that I don't know what its like, and that he can't switch off in the evenings so he ends up going to bed between 2-4am !!! This makes me so angry as its then a vicious circle. He is tired, I wake him up, he gets angry, evening comes, he wakes up, is in a better mood, stays up late blah blah.
Today for example, its nearly 1pm and he's still in bed. I've been up since 7 with the kids, cleared up, washing on, breakfast etc. When the baby wakes I will take them to the park. He will probably get up at 2ish, be in a mood, grumpy etc. I might get a decent conversation around 4ish, by which time the dcs day is nearly over !!! I'm so fed up.
Sorry for the rant. I think this is actually making me worse as writing it all down it sounds bloody awful.

Now, listen, this is ridiculous. He's going to bed at 4 am - THAT'S why he's vile in the morning. He's blaming this on feeling ill - ANYONE would feel ill if they'd had three hours' sleep.

It DOES sound bloody awful. Really dreadful.

I couldn't cope with that. It's hard enough to cope with someone who's ill all the time (I'm really sorry for those who are, but it is really difficult for others to deal with, too) but to have him DELIBERATELY making himself feel worse by staying up late (on his own, too - no responsibility there - unless he's tidying up, ironing, washing the kitchen floor?) is absolutely awful.

I'd be giving him a final written warning about this.

NannyPlum - you have some brilliant ideas - so sorry you're in pain - must be dreadful.

OK - the OP's last post changes things somewhat.

I understand that ME can play havoc with sleeping patterns (I have fybromyalgia and a long-term back condition and I am often awake in the early hours too).

HOWEVER - it is your DH's responsibility to manage his symptoms so that the rest of the family isn't unnecessarily impacted. He will no doubt have been offered anti-depressants such as amyltriptiline, and painkillers such as Tramadol, to help with pain and sleep (anti-depressants are used for ME and fybromyalgia etc for their analgesic properties - does your DH realise this?).

He is being incredibly selfish by not trying to mitigate his symptoms.

If he is averse to taking medication, there will be other options - alternative therapies, relaxation, hypnotherapy, afternoon naps etc - which could help him. Gentle exercise, diet, reducing intake of sugar/caffeine/alcohol etc - there are plenty of options he can explore. I understand that some people hate taking medication; I am one of them! However, I do take some medication for my condition even thought I hate the side effects, because there is a lesser impact on my DH and my DCs that way.

Surely it would be better for him to get into a routine of going to bed earlier at night so he can get up at a reasonable time in the morning? To give him time to have a warm bath, and take a couple of hours to get ready to face the day if that's what he needs?

OP, I still stand by my earlier suggestion of sorting out short-term morning childcare until your DH pulls himself together and realises that he needs to take responsibility for managing his condition. It is simply not fair for you and your DCs to take extra flak because he is not prepared to face up to the reality of his condition.

I sympathise with the DH's condition, but not with his refusal to do anything to make it more bearable.

I know the thread has moved on a bit and you've had some great advice but just wanted to make a point re tax credits and help with childcare...

Taken from directgov website

So depending on your household income you may still be entitled to some help.

Imperial thankyou so much for your empathy. It is very hard feeling so poorly exhausted and in pain constantly.
crikey I am quite concerned for your own health . I really want you to seek out some support - you need to remind DH that

Just because he is tired - it doesn't mean that you don't get tired
you have needs of your own
to cope with this situation he needs to work as part of a team.

Crikey we all need looking after - including you.
Does DH ask how you are ?

Sadly illness can make people become selfish. But that doesn't make it right.

Insist that he he comes to the GP with you.
Ask about a referral to a nurse specialist or physiotherapist who specialises in ME.
Insist that DH starts engaging in treatment.

Please make an appointment for yourself witj the GP to discuss your own feelings and off load.
Carer strain is well recognised so please ask your GP about the different avenues of support for you.

Don't doubt yourself in being firm with DH.
Please take care of you too.

crikey DLA is none means tested and your DH is entitled to apply.

Also, remember he is entitled to a social care assessment. I receive self directed support ( a personal budget ) to spend on services that 'support me in being a parent'.
All that takes is a call to your SS dept to ask for an assessment .
Please look up Self Directed Support on the net.
Feel free to pm me about benefits that may be applicable ( I'm a qualified nurse and know quite a bit about benefits .) And can help with advice on form filling X