dh is being a twunt about this and i dont know how to change it....

[crikeybill]

Basically I work full time and dh stays home. He has m.e so works freelance from home fixing computers and installing software. He hates getting up in the morning and I mean hates it. He is always really grumpy, takes ages to get going, has to exercise his legs, take tablets etc. Once he has been up a while, its all fine. He acknowledges what he is like if I talk to him about it in the evening, but it doesn't change. He just tells me to ignore his snapping , sarcastic remarks etc but it makes for such a shit start to the day.
My problem now is we have an 8 month old. We also have two older dc aged 9 and 10.
The 8 month old was an unplanned delight and he is great with him, we all enjoy him so much. Life has been great while I was on maternity leave and dh could rest but now he is looking after dc 3 days a week and oh the early morning issue has raised its head.
I have just left for work leaving dc3 in his bouncy chair next to dh. Dh lay on the sofa with his dressing gown over his head and refused to even open his eyes !! He snapped at me when I told him what dc3 needed today and just lay there groaning and moaning saying yes yes just go. I feel like shit, I'm so tired, my legs hurt blah blah.
I hate hate hate walking out and leavivg him like this. I know he will get up and care for him just fine but why does the day have to start so nasty ! Dc1 and 2 know what hes like and tend to stay out of his way till he's woke up a bit.
Hes not a bad person or dad, he's planning on making cakes for me with the older two today, he's just such a wanker in the morning.
He knows it upsets me , I left in tears today but he still does it. I know he's ill ffs but that doesn't mean his feelings always come first does it ?

How many more times are you willing to try these conversations, then?

I dont know ? What should I do ? As others have said, I dont have the illness so I cant say how awful he feels.
In many other ways he is great. I dont feel like I should just end my 22 year marriage because he has an illness. But it isnt pleasant dreading mornings.
I think thats what he is afraid of anyway

What are you suggesting ?

I actually wouldn't trust him with the baby to be honest. You need to "Tell" him that you are going to find a childminder.

I'm suggesting that you ask yourself how many times you're willing to try the conversations where you ask him to treat you with more respect, despite his pain. Only you know your own limits.

1. does dh have counselling to deal with his illness and resentment of you?

(my exp would say all those "you are so lucky going to work" things when he became sahp it was a sign of slide into major depression lookin back - make sure your h has some kind of positive therapy/counselling going on)

1. put the baby with childminder or nursery in the mornings. no ifs no buts.

until your h is better then it is better for the baby and better for your h. reality is h is stuggling in the mornings so take charge and do this - eg for next six months. tell h - baby is going to nursery/childminder for next six months then we review.

yes that is true. I think this morning really, really upset me even though its far from the first time. So perhaps we need to have a real harsh chat tonight. I may have hit my limit
I didnt think I particulary wanted to end my marriage though. Just show him hes being a twunt.

Missfaversham why do you say that ? He is very, very good with dc3 and dc3 clearly adores him. he has been involved since day one with nappy chnages, feeds, entertaining him etc. If I truely thought he couldnt do it I wouldnt leave him. On days when he cant cope he tells me and I step in. I just dont want to abuse the sickness policy at work.

I have fibromyalgia which can cause sleep issues and find morning's difficult. Dh leaves for work by 6.45am so I HAVE to get up and see to the children on bad mornings. But I'm never rude or snappy towards dh about it.

Yes we struggle and unless you have the condition it can be hard to understand how we feel. But that never excuses rudeness.

either he changes his behviour in the morning or you take him out the equation in the mornings and use childminder or nursery for the morning, allowing him to stay out of all your way til he is ready to go fetch baby. may allow him one hour each day to do his business too in peace.

it is as simple as that.

if he simply cannot be pleasant and cannot cope in the mornings then you have to use a childminder/nursery. and he stays in his room til later. that woul be managing his illness.

because you dont know how he is with baby when he is feeling grumpy and it is still morning and you have gone off to work and others to school.

baby cannot tell you if he is also on the receiving end of the morning grumps.

Because I personally wouldn't feel comfortable and would never know whether that mood would be taken out on the baby and wouldn't risk it.

Thank you cestlavielife Yes I think your right about the childcare. Im at lunch, I will look into it and make some enquiries now. I just know that he will think I am suggesting he isnt capable and that will break his heart. i will need to make it clear its for his benefit and to avoid arguments.

The GP has given him anti-depressents but he refuses to take them. He says they make him drowsy and the M.E already does that for him. I asked him to consider councelling and he did go on a 4 week intensive pain management course in January but I think he found the councelling sessions a bit and now he wont go. He said there were a lot of people in wheelchairs etc and he said he felt fraudulent !! As you can see, he is stubborn and hard work !! He is also very afraid I will leave him

i don't understand why you are on tenterhooks till lunchtime and upset - if this is how he always is then why are you on tenterhooks? you know he's always like this, and then he perks up. i think you need to just accept that this is how things are.

and say to him that you appreciate what he's like in the mornings so from now on you're not going to talk to him before work or kiss him goodbye - it doesn't mean you don't love him, but it will help you love him more to avoid him before work.

i don't think you can really just argue him into being any less miserable in the mornings, i can't imagine how he feels, i know when i had a painful injury i would sit down and cry on the way to work out of sheer frustration and tired from the unrelenting pain.. i think also that making sure he can take his pills in bed before he needs to actually get up might help...

Just show him hes being a twunt.

You can bring a horse to water... He is the master of his perceptions and his actions. He may accept that he is acting like a twunt. He may not. It's entirely down to him. Not to how much effort you put in showing him.

He is also very afraid I will leave him

That's his issue to sort out; you don't have to manage his own fears for him by being placating - such as when you say "i will need to make it clear its for his benefit and to avoid arguments." How about the truth: that it is for the entire family's benefit, including your sanity, and especially the baby who is dependent on attention and nurturing.

you ahve already said "He acknowledges what he is like " .

so no need for arguments.
it is for everyone's benefit. you, him, baby, the other DC.

and frankly, you need to make it clear that while you accept his illness you dont accept unpleasantness and he needs to show willing to work with you on this . you offering a concrete and simple solution which while costing money saves a lot of heartache and might aid his recovery. indeed, if he gets better as mornings are less pressured then maybe he can earn more money n his business while baby is in childcare. win win.

if things dont change over next few months then yes you may need to consider everything. especially if he refuses to work with you on a solution to the morning problems.

HotDAMNlifeisgood Yes you are right I want to go home and cuddle my baby now

Thank you all, you have genuinely given me some great advice to work with.

Good luck. Keep us updated!

Crikey,

What would you actually like to happen here? I can totally see what you are saying but waking up feeling like your head is in a vice and just seeing an endless run of similar days ahead must be soul destroying.

Have you tried a positive discussion, bostering his confidence with a positive message but, at the same time, trying to put some rules in place that you can both buy into?

As to those who claim that they have ME but "would never behave like that", you have no idea how Crikey's husband feels and clearly are not looking after 3 children all day. Holier than though is not a basis for good advice.

Hang on a minute - his nastiness made you cry this morning and now he's sulking because you didn't kiss him goodbye? Why the hell WOULD you? And did he kiss you goodbye?

I know an illness like this is really debilitating, but he needs to face up to the fact that he needs to sleep longer and start the day without any responsibilities. You should tell him you're booking a childminder. It's not on that you should have to put up with behaviour like that.

Interesting, though, isn't it, that he's never liked mornings?

imperial I know I know. I have had to stop myself thinking things like that a LOT. The illness has been a massive learning curve in patience and sympathy for me. I am not a patient person. I am a " pull your socks up, stop moaning and get on with it " person. I have had to learn that he cant do that. I have also had to trust hope that he doesnt play on it and use it for convinience when he feels like a lie in .
No he did not kiss me goodbye and that is what I pointed out to him !!! hence the argument. Illness or not I wasnt in the mood to take his poor me, this morning....sigh..

crikey if he finds the antidepressants don't agree with him, he should go back to his GP as there are loads of different kinds he can try x

He won't take the ADs, McPopcorn!

These types of illness can take their toll on everyone, patients and carers.

There was one little thing on your OP that called my attention (maybe someone else has pointed it out?).
You said that he was grumpy when you told him what your DC3 needed today.
That implies that he must be told what to do and that you don't trust him. Which may have made him grumpier than usual.

I'd say that you should really just kiss him goodbye and wish him a good day in the morning. And avoid giving instructions. :)

It is likely that he does need some sympathy, instead of the just getting on with things.

Different people deal with illness differently.

Is it possible that he may benefit from some sort of counselling to deal with it all?

And has he had breakfast by the time you leave? A sugar low may make grumpiness and pain worse. Maybe he should have some biscuits by the bed. :)

You say you're not a patient person but it seems to me that you have the patience of a saint - I do appreciate how hard this must be for him, but never underestimate how hard it is for you as well. You're in an incredibly difficult situation.

There are lots of different and valid viewpoints on this thread - all of them objective, all of them measured. What do you feel about showing him these comments?

First up, I would like to say that I am not excusing his pettiness over the kiss issue, nor the rudeness - it's not on, and it needs to change. However. I have a chronic and painful condition too and mornings are awful for me. Try as I might (and I do!) I occasionally end up snapping at DP, then by lunchtime feel bad about it because the tablets have kicked in and the fog has cleared. I shouldn't do it, and I always apologise, but none of us are perfect.

Secondly. I have a lot of sympathy with his insecurity, both regarding the work issue and the getting up in the morning. I am very funny and touchy about this. We live in a society that sees anyone who's not up by 8.00 as lazy, and if you get up any later you don't get to complain about feeling awful. Even if it's not said, even if you're with sympathetic people who understand why it is hard for you to get up in the morning, there is a societal pressure and it has made me go a bit funny in the head - I get paranoid that I am lazy, that I should just get my act together and stop whining and I'm just a horrible person. That also extends into my condition in general - like your DP's ME, it's not visible, not quantifyable and very variable. On days where I don't get anything done, or not as much as a healthy person would, I feel bad about that - what if I'm actually just whiny and everyone feels like this? It took me a long time to realise that's not true, and my partner's support was very valuable in that - he helped me feel better about myself when he pointed out the last time I worked a full time job I got signed off after 6 weeks because I could no longer walk.

I think your partner needs some help to work through his feelings of insecurity and being unable to work as hard as he used to, perhaps one-to-one counselling might be better? Group counselling is my idea of hell but I've found private sessions helpful in the past. Simultaneously he needs to work on not being rude to you and finding productive and proactive ways to deal with the issue. He feels godawful in the morning, there's probably no changing that (although it is worth investigating if that is in fact the case - could he see a GP, perhaps to ask if there's any kind of long-acting tablet he could take at night so he doesn't feel so dire when he wakes up?) so between you you need to find ways to work with the unchangeable aspects of the situation. That may, in fact, involve you leaving him alone in the morning until he feels well enough to hold a coherent conversation, and him learning to say 'sorry, I feel awful, give me an hour' rather than barking at you.There must be solutions - can you write down the information he needs to have before you leave, rather than relaying it verbally? That way he can look at it once he's conscious enough but before he needs to know it.

Finally - I really don't want you to feel like I'm picking on you, as I have a lot of sympathy (I know how hard living with me sometimes is for my DP) but when you say things like 'I have to hope he won't play on this to get a lie in', if you are saying that to him or giving off that kind of vibe that will feed into his insecurity massively. If my DP said that to me or implied it I would be a twitchy paranoid wreck for a week because the idea that people feel that way about me and the niggling worry that it's true and I'm actually just putting it on and should get a grip(even though all rational evidence tells me that it isn't) is more or less my worst fear. It's pretty much the least helpful thing you could do. I think you are going to have to go into this quite gently - make clear that his behaviour is not acceptable (because it isn't, and I'm completely with you on that) without making him feel even more insecure and defensive than he already is because it'll be counterproductive; while at the same time also trying to empathise with him because, let's face it, his situation is pretty shit.

I also have M.E. I can be tired, grumpy and in pain, and mornings can be difficult - I need alot of sleep and I try to make sure I get as much as I can as it makes a huge difference. But generally not horrible or shouty unless put under pressure, but I can be . You say your husband says I feel like shit, I'm so tired, my legs hurt blah blah, but is usually much better in the evening. Honest it might be best just to ignore him in the morning, no instructions, nothing, just a kiss and a quick goodbye e.g. sometimes I actually cannot take words in when I am feeling bad. And enjoy your evenings together! I think Lueji's got some great advice.

Thank you napkin and lueji you have given me lots to think about.
I probably am guilty of sighing and huffing and puffing a bit when he says hes going back to bed.
I probably do feed his insecurity somewhat. The thing that narks me though, is I'm trying to find solutions, trying to help the situation but it can sometimes feel very one sided and lonely. It's as if he has the illness so what can he do ?? We have to all adjust around him.
Sometimes I feel cheated, and that makes me feel awful. I married a 6ft 2 workaholic who went out a lot had bags if confidence. We were going to do so much. Now I have someone totally different. I feel guilty for thinking that and I feel guilty for my dc. They know money is an issue and that we can't do x y and z because " daddy is ill " and o could cry. The selfish part of me wants so much more, and I think I have put up with a lot. That's probably why I get so angry when he then acts like a spiteful arse to me, because I'm thinking, ffs all I've done for you !@@@@!!!!

I'm awful aren't I.