Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How long would you wait for him?

81 replies

jenrose29 · 06/04/2012 15:53

Hi, I've posted here once before about DP but will give a quick overview. We've been together for 2.5 years, he seperated from his wife a few months before we met as she left him for another man and took their two children (aged 1 and 2 at the time) with her. I was seperated from my daughters father, who was 2 at the time. Even though his wife had multiple affairs and left him, she made his life very difficult after seperation - racking up debts and expecting him to pay, stopping him seeing the kids, causing problems in our relationship etc. We stuck together and after just over a year together my daughter and I moved 30 miles to be closer to him (though we didn't move in together.) She continued to make life as difficult as possible for him and he continued to do whatever she told him (i.e. not knowing until the morning he was due to collect kids whether he'd see them or not, her giving him one days notice that she had moved out of their house and hadn't paid the mortgage so he'd have to, she had a baby and gave her his surname and told everyone she was his and so on) and he said that he was waiting until they'd been seperated for 2 years and then he was going to divorce her.

We discussed trying for a baby of our own as, aside from her interference, our relationship is absolutely fantastic. My daughter adores him and his children, when we get to see them, fit in well and get on well with my daughter. We started trying in July last year and I fell pregnant in October. He was over the moon, as was my daughter and I was really excited about the future. However, his wife continued to cause problems for him regarding debts and stopping him seeing his kids yet he continued to do nothing about making formal arrangements for contact with the kids or getting divorced. It got to the end of Feb and finally I could keep quiet no longer and told him that it was ridiculous that I was so far pregnant and that he hadn't made any attempt at starting to get divorced, and that while he is still so embroiled with his wife we can't even move in together. He apologised and said he would get it sorted immediately.

He saw a solicitor the following week. His solicitor wrote a draft letter she proposed to send to the wife, which admittedly was quite harsh - i.e. if you do not consent to divorce we will have no option but to file for unreasonable behaviour on grounds of your affairs, if you do not make contact arrangements with our client we will seek a contact order etc. He called his solicitor and had it changed to pretty much kissing his wifes backside to get her to consent to the divorce and had his solicitor agree to the contact arrangements his wife wants him to have, which he actually can't fulfill. It was only after the letter was sent that he told me what it contained, whereby I advised him that he is silly to make contact agreements he cannot keep as she will then say he is letting the kids down - and she'd be right. He called her to tell her he couldn't actually do what he'd promised and low and behold, she stopped him seeing the kids again! She had a solicitors appointment the following day and told him not to contact her again. That was a month ago. His solicitor has chased hers up but they have heard nothing, and he has done as he was told and not contacted his wife. I'm now 32 weeks pregnant with no prospect of anything being sorted. His shifts mean that as we aren't living together and can't until his issues are resolved, he'll see our baby a couple of times per week at most so I'll pretty much be a single mum. I love him very much, but I just want to have a normal family life. Is that too much to ask? For 2.5 years now my daughter and I have fitted in around his work and his wifes whims about whether he can see the kids or not and I don't want this baby to have to do the same. Though he promised, yet again, a month ago to get it sorted it's been several weeks and he hasn't done anything. How long would you wait?

OP posts:
joanna2012 · 06/04/2012 15:57

you should have realised that he wasnt partner material when he dithered so long about his previous relationship. You cant really complain now, you knew what he was like yet you still decided to get pregnant :(

UnhappyLizzie · 06/04/2012 15:58

Oh dear, what a difficult situation. I am so sorry. Have no experience of this but when you say 'how long would you wait?' you mean wait before doing what? You are pregnant with his child, due in a couple of months. You can't issue him with any ultimatums really. You know what you want.

He's in a very difficult situation but he sounds like he loves you and you have a good relationship. I think it's very likely that when baby comes along he will find the current situation intolerable and the presence of the baby in your lives will galvanise him into action. Really hope so for you.

jenrose29 · 06/04/2012 16:08

joanna2012 There has been no dithering, it's not like he was confused as to what he wanted. He just lets his wife walk all over him because he wants an easy life and hopes that one day she will just see sense and behave normally.

UnhappyLizzie Well, as it is I've been with him for 2.5 years and my daughter has known him as the man in her life for the majority of it. She has contact with her biological father but they are not close, she is very close indeed to my partner. She has (and we have) been wanting us all to move in together for over 18 months and she cannot understand why he cannot commit to us. I know I want him, my daughter wants us to be together and obviously that is what he wants and what is best for the baby. However, I think he thinks that if he hangs back then I'll just move in and forget about the wife issues as we haven't heard from her for a month. But I'm not going to back down as potentially his wife could cause issues for him, and therefore the children and I, which could render us homeless. He would have work accomodation to move into, the children and I wouldn't. I just don't know how much longer I can attempt to have a 'family' whom all live seperately - it isn't right and stable for my daughter, nor the impending baby. As it is, for the past month I have made a point of my daughter and I not seeing him for several days at a time (whereas before we were seeing him everyday) to point out how crap it's going to be all living apart for the foreseeable future. He has gone on and on about how much he misses us and has busied himself with decorating his house 'to make it nice when we move in' (!) but has done nothing about the wife issues which are preventing us from doing so. I don't think the baby's actual arrival is going to make any difference, I think he will just carry on feeling sorry for himself :(

OP posts:
oikopolis · 06/04/2012 16:17

i'm sorry to say i think you chose the wrong man to have a baby by. he may be very nice, but your partner needs to be committed to YOU and your children, not to pandering to the whims of the soon-to-be-ex-wife.

either your partner is spineless, or he is still involved with his wife on some level or another. and either of those is so not good enough. this man will cause you further heartache.

i'm sorry, if i were you i would start making arrangements to extricate your daughter and the rest of your life from this man. if you can't trust him to put you first when you are 32 weeks gone, i can't see how you can trust him ever

jenrose29 · 06/04/2012 16:24

That's the thing, it's not 'soon-to-be-ex-wife' because he isn't doing anything to make her ex! He is most definitely not involved with her in any way. He doesn't even know where she and the children live and you guessed it - has done nothing to try and find out! He clings to the hope that when the children are older they'll chose to live with him, but realistically his lack of action with regards to arranging contact is just serving to back up everything their mum is probably telling them about him. In truth, because of the amount of 'liasons' and affairs his wife had during their marriage he isn't even sure if one/both children are his but has done nothing to resolve this either.

By cutting down how much we've seen him I feel like it's a good start in case things do go very wrong. My daughter has taken it fine and not been upset by it, though she is happy when she sees him. I agree that 32 weeks pregnant is pretty far gone for him to not have bucked up his ideas, but it's frustrating because I know none of it is done maliciously. He genuinely wants to be happy with my daughter, the baby and I but continues to let his wife ruin his life. Which unfortunately I can't be patient with and put up with forever. If it were just the two of us it were affecting then perhaps, but there are 3, soon to be 4, children involved and it's just not right in my opinion.

OP posts:
izzyizin · 06/04/2012 16:28

Here's one of your earlier theads: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1416392-To-move-in-or-not-to-move-in

You've left it far too late to issue ultimatums and it doesn't bode well that, having finally got himself to a solicitor's office, he chose to materially alter the resultant sensible draft letter which was proposed to get the ball rolling in terms of a divorce and future contact with his dc.

No doubt you were encouraged by the fact that he sought legal advice but it would seem that this man prefers to stay married and see his dc as and when his wife dictates.

Having read a thread you posted on another board after he expressed his disappointment that your forthcoming dc is a girl, I'm afraid I can't share Lizzie's optimism that her birth will galvanise him into taking any action to change the status quo.

Maybe when you've demonstrated that you are the 'perfect woman' by giving him the second son he craves he might man up but, frankly, I doubt it.

lisaro · 06/04/2012 16:37

I think if he wanted to live with you he would be. There's actually nothing stopping him.

izzyizin · 06/04/2012 16:38

I suspect that if you'd posted this here you would have received a lot more responses: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/pregnancy/1412868-Partner-disappointed-about-gender-of-baby-am-I-wrong-to-be-upset

You are best advised not to move in with this man until such time as he has divorced and demonstrated that he is capable of behaving like an adult.

Alibabaandthe40nappies · 06/04/2012 16:45

Why on earth did you decide to try for a baby with a man who was married to someone else and therefore not in a position to commit to you fully?

You have been a fool OP, and your best course of action is to make all decisions to suit yourself and your daughter and baby.

Flightty · 06/04/2012 17:16

Sorry, OP, I've been reading this thread feeling really sad for you. I don't want to add to the harsh responses.

It could be that the chap has some sort of fear of commitment, which means he's kind of messing things up with the contact/solicitor/ex wife because he knows once he lets go properly of her, and all she involves, he will be precisely in a position to commit to you. And that scares him more than he realises.

Lots of men are like this. Sometimes they find themselves with a woman they can cope with committing to. I'm not sure what sort of woman that has to be, and frankly if they do, they will often cheat on her too for some reason. It stops them ever fully committing to anyone at all, I suppose.

And so it is possible he will never actually commit to you and your baby, and your dd and if he does, it may still feel not quite 'proper' or secure iyswim...sounds like he is very much his own man and wrapped up in his own silent needs that he can't even quantify, much more than your needs and that of your two (nearly) children.

I'm not sure what to suggest, I think Ali is right in that you need to focus solidly on your needs and those of your babies, without much reference to his because he's not putting you first at all. You have got to. Does that make sense? Stop fitting in around him. Let him fit in around you, or push off.

We all make mistakes and think people are like such and such when actually they have no intention of doing right by us. It's so normal and common, no one should be castigating you for getting too involved with someone who said all the right things. Yes your interpretation may have been optimistic but that's not a crime, it's a matter of experience. Which only now do you have.

I'm just sorry you're going through this. Keep posting. Will see if we can help x

Flightty · 06/04/2012 17:21

By the way I haven't read your other threads as I find it uncomfortable that someone has linked to them on here. I prefer to answer the question at hand. (no offence Izzy).

If it is true that he is upset about the baby's sex then he does indeed sound as though he has some serious issues, and will never be happy with you or to bewith you and will not commit, full stop. He sounds like a man who is seriously hedging his bets in all sorts of ways.

I am so sorry, you poor thing xxx

Smum99 · 06/04/2012 17:21

I'm so sorry that he hasn't followed through but I think most of us suspected it would be the case. I think he will continue to let you down until you feel so frustrated and have no choice but maybe you don't feel ready yet - certainly being pregnant it's a horrid time to have to consider the future alone.

The hardest thing to accept is that men who outwardly appear nice might not have your best interests at heart. He is certainly not acting in a committed way and I suspect that previous relationships or your upbringing have led you to believe you don't deserve much more. He is holding back from the divorce despite knowing how important it is to you, that has to tell you something.

I'm not sure what you can do - at least you have a home for you and your daughters. I think the situation will continue until you have reached the end of your tether. Don't fall for any more of his promises..only look at his actions. As the sayings goes...Talk is cheap. Words are plentiful. Deeds are precious.

Flightty · 06/04/2012 17:29

Ok, well I've now read the one about the baby's gender and I am sorry, this man sounds incredibly immature, very entitled, confused and completely unaware of his own psychological issues which it appears are plentiful.

It sounds as though everything is all about him, and his 'plans' and not about the best interests of the children or you at all. Giving him a boy, and being his 'perfect woman' is all fantasy. He's living in a little dream land of his own and it doesn't even involve you any further than your roele in his story, and how well you fit the part.

I don't sense any love at all from him to you. It's like he can't imagine that you have real feelings. He is trampling all over them. Sad

Gosh I am so sad for you OP. Right now though, we need to think about what you're going to do and how to move forward from this situation.

What have you got in terms of a home, in terms of family and solid friends around you, were you to leave him? Just thinking out loud for now x

izzyizin · 06/04/2012 17:32

No offence taken Flightty, and I make no apology for having given links to 2 of the OP's earlier threads that have a material bearing on this one as, wherever possible, I prefer to form opinions based on tmi rather than too little.

TooEasilyTempted · 06/04/2012 17:33

I remember your previous thread about moving in with him. My opinion hasn't changed. I'm surprised he even went and got legal advice. But then he altered the solicitors letter Hmm.

I think he's telling you what he thinks you want to hear and doing just enough the bare minimum to allow you to think 'well at least he's doing something' when in actual fact he has no intention of you all living together.

Prepare yourself for life as a single mum because he is unwilling and incapable of changing his circumstances for you and your children and if you do move in with him you are a fool.

ameliagrey · 06/04/2012 17:37

why did you have a baby with a married man?

You seem to be makig your DD a bit of a scapegoat - saying how attached she is too him- that's not exactly the point is it? How old is she?

He can divorce his wife quickly on the grounds of her UB.
Why he is not is because he doesn't want to.

You have got yourself into a pickle- and must really carry on now as if you were a single mum.

Sorry.

Flightty · 06/04/2012 17:44

Izzy yes of course it's good to have the full background but I feel that's the OP's prerogative to provide links if she wishes.

She has stated she's posted previously and it is Ok to go and look it up for your own reference but to link seems out of place somehow. To me, anyway.

I just hope she isn't put off by everyone telling her how stupid she is and how it's all her fault. The man is a dick, but she misunderstood. We all make mistakes.

ameliagrey · 06/04/2012 18:04

From your previous posts in February OP He then said it would be his new years resolution to get divorced.

This really takes the biscuit!

I understand people making new year resolutions to exercise, lose weight, or whatever. But to get a divorce? FFS.

I'm sorry OP but this man is an utter waste of space.

Cut him out of your life and move on. He will never commit to you and you are on a hiding to nothing hoping he will.

It's crystal clear- you jst don't want to see it.

Sorry.

jenrose29 · 06/04/2012 18:36

Thanks for your replies - I understand the harshness of some of them and don't take offence. From an outside perspective, I can see it looks terrible and were it a friend of mine in the same situation I'd be really upset for her.

lisaro It's not that he won't move in with me. He wants my DD, the baby and I to move in with him and has been asking us to do so for some time but I won't do so until he resolves the issues with his wife, finances and children.

Flightty He isn't scared of commitment, as I said above - he wants us to move in and for us to get married eventually. I'm not fussed about marriage or engagements, I just want us to be a normal family without the hassle him still being married and not having sorted out his contact arrangments brings. At the moment, my daughter and I live in a rented house, I have absolutely no friends and no family either.

Smum99 It isn't necessarily the divorce that's important to me - I have no concerns that he still cares for her or anything like that. It's just the hassle associated with still technically being married that frustrates me that he hasn't resolved it for himself, let alone for the sake of our potential family. Also, his lack of action in sorting out contact with his children just makes me wonder about our baby. If I left him and told him he couldn't see the baby (hypothetically - I wouldn't actually do that) would he just accept it like he accepts his wife stopping contact with his other kids?

ameliagrey My daughter is four and a half years old. I'm not trying to make her into a scapegoat, it just makes things more difficult that he has been in her life for the majority of it and that she is so close to him. If it were just he, the potential baby and I then it wouldn't be quite so complicated is all I was trying to point out.

OP posts:
Flightty · 06/04/2012 19:25

Yes but Jen, he hasn't done it. He's said he wants to one day but that doesn't for a moment mean it will ever happen. It sounds like he is trying, whether he is aware of it or not, to put spanners in the works so that it doesn't.

Commitmentphobic men often promise the earth but when push comes to shove, they're out the door.

oikopolis · 06/04/2012 20:01

OP you're making the classic mistake of taking words as proof of love and commitment, instead of actions.

for future reference, it's the actions of your partner that tell the real story. not the words.

the fact is, your partner has had you move to his town, has become close to your DD, and has got you upduffed... all without divorcing his wife or making any sensible moves towards a divorce.

you were foolish to move closer to him, to expose your DD to him, and to fall pregnant by him, all before he even got his divorce in motion... and now you're paying the price for your poor decision.

sorry to say it, but you're in a mess. stop listening to the words and start looking at the actions. you are single, and you are going to have to bring this baby up alone. don't rely on this man anymore. don't waste any more time on him, he can't even be bothered to divorce his wife for you fgs...

Flightty · 06/04/2012 20:28

'He wants my DD, the baby and I to move in with him and has been asking us to do so for some time but I won't do so until he resolves the issues with his wife, finances and children.'

But he can't do this. and on some level, I think, he won't. Do you see....he is still more heavily involved with her than he is with you. He refers to her in everything he does, not to you. He is attached to her.

For a relationship to work both people have to be attached to each other and NOT to anyone else.

DP was with someone before we met, in a fading, intermittent relationship and then we met, and he was not with her any more, because he stopped going there and spent all his time with me, and my children. Negotiations continued for a while and he sent money to tide her over, but she did not stay in control, did not have anything at all to do with me, he never put her first and he sorted out his own situation to be available right away, in every way.
I was never ever told, my ex is making such and such demand, I must comply and therefore you will need to wait to have your demands met.

That is how it ought to look, if there is a third party anywhere in the picture. DP and his ex did not have any children together which I concede makes a difference, however, your place ought to be at the top of his particular tree and if anyone is being frustrated and upset by his decisions (and yes, he is making these decisions - he does have a choice!) it ought to be the person in his past, not the one in his future.

Children notwithstanding - this isn't anything to do with them, is it? It's all about her, and him. He hasn't let go of her.

ameliagrey · 06/04/2012 22:38

Gosh I feel sorry for you!

He isn't making the slightest move to end his marriage.

I wonder how he'd react if you said you wanted to move in with him? He might withdraw the offer.

I still think you are adding in your daughter as a factor when it' s not necessary. Again, a mistake on your part to expose her to this man when he was still very much married. She's only 4. Okay you have dated this man for 2 years- but she'll get over it.

he sounds incredibly immature. Any man who willingly creates another human being when so deeply in the mire of his own marriage fall-out is suspect.

To answer your question- no, you shouldn't wait for him. Give him the heave -ho. it might be a wake up call for him, but if not you will be on the path of detaching yourself and your family.
It's win-win.

mrsSOAK · 07/04/2012 08:22

I agree with the other posters who suggest you have left it too late to issue ultimatums. You keep saying "he wants us to live together" and there is nothing stopping him from bending over backwards to make you happy. He could easily put his estranged wife in the hands of his solicitor. You ask "how long should I wait" you have already been waiting two and a half years. A quarter of that time would have been enough for me. You are effectively going to be a single mum to two and I doubt you will get the help or support you want from your 'boyfriend'

jenrose29 · 07/04/2012 11:55

Flightty He really is not commitmentphobic. I know it may seem like that from the outside but it really isn't the case. If it were up to him, my DD and I would have been living with him 2 years ago. It is me that has kept my distance and been wary after the previous relationship breakdown with DD. Similarly, I have made clear to him that I would never ever get engaged to him for many years as I suspected (and was told) he was going to propose. If anything, he is more into this relationship than I am - I am very independent whereas he is quite needy. He just buries his head in the sand and hopes everything will be okay. "He refers to her in everything he does" simply isn't true, he never really talks about her or the children. He just pretends it isn't an issue and hopes it'll go away.

mrsSOAK I haven't issued any ultimatums, I have simply said that we won't be moving in until his stuff is sorted. I don't feel I should have to issue ultimatums, he is a grown man and it is up to him to make the right choices without me nagging him to do so. I understand when you say that 'I've already been waiting for 2.5 years' but realistically, I haven't. The issues his wife has caused has had no bearing on our relationship, which has been fantastic. It's not like I've been waiting around hankering for him to get divorced so we can get married and live happily ever after. I want him to sort his stuff out for HIM and his children, not because I've told him to.

OP posts: