How long would you wait for him?

[jenrose29]

Hi, I've posted here once before about DP but will give a quick overview. We've been together for 2.5 years, he seperated from his wife a few months before we met as she left him for another man and took their two children (aged 1 and 2 at the time) with her. I was seperated from my daughters father, who was 2 at the time. Even though his wife had multiple affairs and left him, she made his life very difficult after seperation - racking up debts and expecting him to pay, stopping him seeing the kids, causing problems in our relationship etc. We stuck together and after just over a year together my daughter and I moved 30 miles to be closer to him (though we didn't move in together.) She continued to make life as difficult as possible for him and he continued to do whatever she told him (i.e. not knowing until the morning he was due to collect kids whether he'd see them or not, her giving him one days notice that she had moved out of their house and hadn't paid the mortgage so he'd have to, she had a baby and gave her his surname and told everyone she was his and so on) and he said that he was waiting until they'd been seperated for 2 years and then he was going to divorce her.

We discussed trying for a baby of our own as, aside from her interference, our relationship is absolutely fantastic. My daughter adores him and his children, when we get to see them, fit in well and get on well with my daughter. We started trying in July last year and I fell pregnant in October. He was over the moon, as was my daughter and I was really excited about the future. However, his wife continued to cause problems for him regarding debts and stopping him seeing his kids yet he continued to do nothing about making formal arrangements for contact with the kids or getting divorced. It got to the end of Feb and finally I could keep quiet no longer and told him that it was ridiculous that I was so far pregnant and that he hadn't made any attempt at starting to get divorced, and that while he is still so embroiled with his wife we can't even move in together. He apologised and said he would get it sorted immediately.

He saw a solicitor the following week. His solicitor wrote a draft letter she proposed to send to the wife, which admittedly was quite harsh - i.e. if you do not consent to divorce we will have no option but to file for unreasonable behaviour on grounds of your affairs, if you do not make contact arrangements with our client we will seek a contact order etc. He called his solicitor and had it changed to pretty much kissing his wifes backside to get her to consent to the divorce and had his solicitor agree to the contact arrangements his wife wants him to have, which he actually can't fulfill. It was only after the letter was sent that he told me what it contained, whereby I advised him that he is silly to make contact agreements he cannot keep as she will then say he is letting the kids down - and she'd be right. He called her to tell her he couldn't actually do what he'd promised and low and behold, she stopped him seeing the kids again! She had a solicitors appointment the following day and told him not to contact her again. That was a month ago. His solicitor has chased hers up but they have heard nothing, and he has done as he was told and not contacted his wife. I'm now 32 weeks pregnant with no prospect of anything being sorted. His shifts mean that as we aren't living together and can't until his issues are resolved, he'll see our baby a couple of times per week at most so I'll pretty much be a single mum. I love him very much, but I just want to have a normal family life. Is that too much to ask? For 2.5 years now my daughter and I have fitted in around his work and his wifes whims about whether he can see the kids or not and I don't want this baby to have to do the same. Though he promised, yet again, a month ago to get it sorted it's been several weeks and he hasn't done anything. How long would you wait?

The best you can hope for is sporadic contact with him like all his other children have.

If you are still clnging onto this roses round the door happy family scenario you are going to be very very disappointed.

Can you not see how little he cares for you not to be moving heaven and earth to sort out a divorce?

Just grow up and fgs don't get involved with anyone else- 2 DCs under 5 with 2 different fathers is not a very good track record.

namechangernumber9 When I got divorced, it wouldn't go through until the statement of arrangements for children was satisfactory to the Judge. Bearing in mind my partners wife is saying she should have sole residency and he should have no contact and currently there is no contact taking place, the Judge isn't likely to agree it.

MickyDodger It isn't that he doesn't stick to contact arrangements, she stops contact as and when she feels like it.

so you don't live together, but are having a child with him, and he's married to someone else? I think you need to prepare for the fact that you're the shag and not the person in his heart, if he loved you, he'd have got divorced by now.

Stop having sex with someone else's husband. If he wants you to be the main woman in his life, he'd do what it takes. He knows what it takes, but your actions are saying you aren't all that fussed.

You are a single mum of one, you are about to become a single mother of two. He isn't doing what he knows it would take to get you to live with him. That's his choice.

I also wouldn't assume that 3rd DC wasn't his unless a DNA test said otherwise. That should have been enough to spur him on, it wasn't.

pretty similar for DH, he cant remember what went into his papers, but contact was absolutely not resolved.

I think we probably put that it was the subject of dispute and was being dealt with in court, because that was the case.

Jenrose - she can stop contact whenever she wants as without a formal divorce and contact arrangements, it's just an agreement between them. If he was fussed about this too, he'd be at a solicitor.

This man doesn't give a shit about you or any of his DCs, he might say he does, but his actions prove the opposite.

OP - can you explain a bit more about your thought processes of trying for a baby when your dp was/is a long way from being divorced? Why did you not wait until his life was sorted?

Not making judgements, btw - just wondering.

Thats the bit you chose to argue with? Bloody hell.

I don't think I'd wait a minute more, to answer your question. Not in your position. Is it possible to move back to your old town where you family and friends are? I think one of the reasons youre accepting all this nonsense is that you haven't got people who care about you around you who will stick up for you and tell you how wrong this is.

I'm going to condense what I think of your partner in one sentance. Selfish, weak and lazy. Sorry.

jen you have my every sympathy, but I wouldnt be waiting any longer, this baby is due soon, he can get divored, the statement of arrangements is meaningless anyway, its not court ordered contact, you are changing what you are saying through the thread, moving from finances, debt and spousal maint through to contact.

I think thats a measure of the confusion you are feeling over the issue yourself, that you are trying to convince yourself its ok.

As his wife she has many legal rights, that can over ride yours.

To answer your initial question, I wouldnt wait any longer for him to get divorced, Id insist on him telling his solicitor to push it through.

I would also, if his solicitor is talking about spousal maint, think about a new solicitor.

He must have spent a fortune on this already, all the tooing and froing with solicitors.

The only thing that mattered to me, was the divorce, contact, finances, were all finalised (as such) post divorce, but I did not want to be in the position of giving birth to a baby with a man who was still "legally" married to another woman. DHs issues dragged on and on an on and on, but that wasnt his fault and he wasnt "married".

Earlybird At the time we started trying his wife was in agreement with getting divorced and he was having regular contact with the children. Therefore, it should have been very simple and quick. I have fertility difficulties so technically it could have taken years and years to get pregnant. It just so happened that it didn't.
ArtVandelay I don't have any family and friends anywhere, so where I live is irrelevent really. DD is settled where we live so I won't be uprooting her.

I understand the reluctance of a man to 'upset' the mother of his children if she abuses him by threatening/controlling access to his children. It would be very tempting, I think, to keep her sweet and keep that precious contact going, rather than gamble on going to court. But he does seem to be very accepting of seeing them so little.

And very accepting of a situation in which he sees you and your DD (and presumably the new baby in a couple of months) a couple of times a week with no financial committment. He has known that you need him to be divorced before you move in...but in 2 and a half years he hasn't bothered.

You won't be 'pretty much' a single mum, you are one.

namechangernumber9 If he were prepared to go to court over contact then yes they could put that it was being dealt with by the court but at the moment it isn't clear if he is going to seek a contact order or not. He hasn't spent hardly anything on solicitors - he has only had one appointment. I can see what mattered to you any why but my priorities are different. I'm not fussed that technically he is married to another woman - like I said earlier, she is an awful woman, I have no concerns of any feelings between them, their marriage was a sham etc etc. What I wanted sorted is the contact with his DC and the finances so we can live together and have a stable environment for the children without his wife being able to interfere.

balia He accepts whatever contact he can get because it is better than none - she stopped contact for a period of 6 months once and so every 6 weeks is a vast improvement on that. He clings to the hope if he just keeps seeing them as and when she allows then when they are older they will choose to live with him, but that is a long long way off and the inconsistency in the meantime is no good for the children in my opinion.

jenrose sorry, you are living in a dream world if you think that what goes into the statement of arrangements that goes to court means anything.

Even court ordered contact is barely worth the paper it is printed on.

"What I wanted sorted is the contact with his DC and the finances so we can live together and have a stable environment for the children without his wife being able to interfere".

The last part of this sentence is never going to happen, if she wants to be difficult she will be pre and post divorce, if she wants to block contact she can, etc, etc, etc.

Pop over to the SP forum, take a read. Its hard work being a SP in hostile contact circumstances and if you are waiting for all these issues to be resolved, you will never live together, because they never will be, unless its what the ex wants.

You cannot control how someone else behaves, you can only control how you react to it, and to give someone else (who probably doesnt like you or DP), this amount of control over DP, you and your child and forthcoming baby, is very sad.

Good luck, because you are going to need it.

Honestly I really do sympathise.

I also think you could do with reading up on the legalities of what his wife is entitled to do, including having children and putting on the birth certificate.

Jenrose- you seem to be ignoring everything anyone says. Not once have you conceded that MNs may be right, and that he is not interested in having contact with his family or sorting things out so he can be with you and his baby.

And saying you had to try for a baby now as you have fertility problems is an excuse.

You actively had a child with a man who is married, and cannot sort out his life.

you said earlier he agreed to a contact schedule he couldn't stick too, now you are saying he accepts whatever contact he is given.
He can't actually be that bothered about seeing his children if he won't actually go to a solicitor and fight for them. He "clings to hope" but won't spend his time or money on sorting it out? What a load of bullshit.

Your priorities may be different, but they haven't worked for you, have they?

surely she can't just say 'oh you are not seeing the kids??'

and the spousal maintenance, i am sure it doesn't apply, esp not in a case where he could divorce her on the grounds of adultery. My ex left me but i wasn't entitled to a penny in maintenance.

The question you posed is a funny one. You either tell him right now what you want and he does it, or you stop the relationship.

The x sounds like a mare to me.

surely she can't just say 'oh you are not seeing the kids??'

yes she can, believe me.

namechangernumber9 I didn't say the SoA mean anything, I pointed out that the Judge can refuse to accept them as happened in my case. It's not that I want to let her have control, I want DP's assurance that he will actually grow a pair and fight her rather than let her walk all over him - and therefore us - forever. What his wife is entitled to in which regard...?

MickyDodger He agreed to the contact she demanded he have because she said that if he didn't he would never see them again. It's wrong I know, but he said it to keep her sweet and to see his kids. He has been to a solicitor, but what with paying off the debts too he has little left over to fight.

piratecat She certainly can and has said that. She has moved house with them 6 times since they split up and hasn't given him the address! Divorce on the grounds of adultery is notoriously hard to prove unless the other party agrees to it, which she won't.

well she can say it but how can she actually stop him, how does she do that. she can just apply for something to stop him?

so she has said it, but it's not law then. why can't he find them, why has he given up.

i have on many occasions wanted to say this to my ex husband, because of the way he treated our dd, but didn't. I was told by my solicitor that because we had joint responsibility i would have a very hard job doing it.

she sounds like DHs ex, tbh, fighting her took so much time and energy it became not worth it. It was easier to get on with our lives and let her carry on with hers.

It is very, very sad, the children suffer and suffers still, years down the line, but as someone whose DH spent years of his life fighting, emotionally, financially, etc, its an endless battle your DH will never win, Im not saying he shouldnt try, but there will be a huge cost.

Potentially she will move on from telling him he cant see DC, to making them not want to see him.

By allowing her to control your lives, as well as those of his DC, you are giving her an inordonant amount of power over you.

I meant legal rights as his wife, the idea that she can have a baby and automatically put him on its birth certificate for example, that if he was to have an accident, she and not you could decide a course of treatment, there are loads of legal implications to him still being legally married.

ah yes i recall the adultery thing now, mine did agree to it.

I see now about the two yr rule, which is what i could have done had mine not.

Piratecat, it is easy to stop someone from seeing their children if you are determined, a solicitor wont advise you on how because it is illegal.