The Brave Babes Battle Bus - BOINGing Into Spring, The Jesus(WhatNext) Way!

[Mouseface]

Hello, tis me, Mouse

I'm one of the Brave Babes aboard the Battle Bus, on the journey to sobriety.

We have drinkers, non-drinkers, inbetweeners, notquitesurers...... which is all fantastic.

No matter who you are or where you're at in your personal quest to get where you want to be, come grab a seat and join in the natter, just jump right in.

And, if you'd like to see where we've been up until now, HERE is a link to the last thread and the ones before it

See you soon.

Well except for the whole box of after eight mints.

And even then I suspect it was more to do with the 2 bottles of red wine AND the box of after eight mints that caused the vomit-fest

Mia If wine didn't exist, I don't know if I would drink as much as I do. But then, I quite like some beers and I do like the odd gin and tonic...

One thing that helps me is to imagine that my lovely, golden, dewy bottle of chardonnay is, in fact, a huge, blue, plastic zeppelin of White Lightning or Frosty Jack cider. The thought of that makes me want to heave.

Thanks Greyhound In retrospect I think I'm lucky that I could never afford to do coke on a regular basis - I only really did it when people gave it to me, and luckily that wasn't regularly enough for it to become an issue. Ditto speed.

When I think about how I was then with how I am now, actually I'm in a much much better place in every way than I was then. I wouldn't even be tempted by a line of coke now. Bloody horrible stuff that turns you into even more of an ego-maniacal bore than booze does.

I'm totally identifying with the discussions about family that are going on here at the mo. Drinking was utterly normalised in my family too (which I'm sure I'll talk much much more about in the future so I won't now. MsGee do you see your DParents often now?

Ok I'm peckish now. This would be a good time to have a decent snack, wouldn't it? she says, stating the bleeding obvious

mia unfortunately the answer to 'Would I drink cheap shit if I couldn't afford anything else' is often: Not Yet....

But most of the people who do drink cheap shit didn't start off there.

And I also 'blame' my parents for the apperitif feeling that I was constantly searching for. Alcohol (martini and lemonade - yuk) on an empty stomach when you're 12 did something to create a longing in me. But the longing for the 'hit' was never satisfied, and I've now consigned it to something from the past - like having a 22 in waist, long blonde hair, and being a virgin.

venusandmars Wed 11-Apr-12 16:04:47
"mia unfortunately the answer to 'Would I drink cheap shit if I couldn't afford anything else' is often: Not Yet...."

I take that on board completely. My raging alcoholic and once very dear uncle began his drinking career as a quite a sophisticate who just drank a lot of g&ts and cocktails. Fast forward twenty or so years and it was cheap gin at 6am to get back to sleep, and drinking white lightening thoughout the day.

Greyhound I'm going to try visualising a bottle of thunderbird.

bizzylizzy - love the namechange much more positive.

greyhound - was struck by how similar your description of the easter holidays and the drink in relation to it is to how i've felt (minus the dh so possibly even more mindnumbing) - it has been the endless days and boredom that got to me too.

msgee - yep - sounds like my sister too god forbid you challenge her or point out how she treats you or say no to something. she can be lovely but when she blows she blows. interesting to hear you letting out the family stuff - never heard you write much about them before.

home and having a rest before getting ready to go get the bus and do the do.

Hope it goes well SAF x

ooh i missed loads of posts! going back to read.

saf good for you - Yippee...

Interesting that I haven't talked about my folks really. Funny Everyone pretty much tiptoes round DSis - I think that I was an 'easier' child whereas my sister kind of makes you work hard for her love, so when she had DC and really needed my mum, well - mum was probably over the moon. I think that they are are much closer now DSis has children and perhaps not just because mum skivvies after her

Funnily in our 20's I was the mess and the fuck up of the family ok most of my 30's too but now I just get on with things and seem to cope ok, so mum focuses on DS who 'needs' her more. DH and I decided long ago that we could rail against this or hold our heads up, keep our pride and manage on our own. I must admit it rankles when DS moans she doesn't go out much as mum babysits for her fairly often (in my book). DH and I haven't had a night out together for nearly 18 months. And that was our first for a year.

I always felt second best as a child - which was wrong, it was more me than anything. Now that I probably am it hurts less. I can separate my mum's actions and behaviour from her feelings. I know she loves me, she just had to do what she has to do.

Mia they live at the other side of teh country so not too often. Its hard for us to go up there because sis normally goes too and we have to stay in a hotel and sis can stay at the family home - so I have basically stopped going. Might try just me and DD this summer though. Other than this weekend its the first time since Xmas.

and for the record I like to think I drank naice wine but I know I will drink any old shit if I need to.

Right off to get DD. Sometimes I think she is luck having no siblings

That's true, Venus. People who drink cheap booze (and is cheap wine, at less than £4 a bottle, any different to 'tramp juice' cider??) don't start off there.

I think I mentioned recently the cheap booze I saw in Iceland - basically, just booze, cheap blended brandy, evil looking vodka and so on. You don't drink it for the taste...

My dad always drank far too much. He drank every night, without fail, for as long as I can remember back. He drank cider - a 2 litre bottle every night. Probably drank cider because it was cheap and my parents always struggled with money.

Now my mum will make digs about 'your drinking' to me, always implying she thinks I've got a big problem. I feel more defensive about this than I should, because I think, ffs, I drink less than my dad did and you never tried to get him to stop. He would drink till he fell asleep in his chair, then wake in the small hours and go up to bed. Every night. And he'd be drunk and ranting about politics at the telly, full of anger. I don't know why how she put up with it.

I always had low self esteem and so did my siblings really. Our achievements weren't ever celebrated. Worst crime in our house was being 'a bighead'. And we did achieve - we were the first generation in our family to go to Uni, and all four of us went to different Oxbridge colleges - from state school. Our mum never acted like she was proud of us. Maybe she didn't want people to think she was being 'a bighead', lol - except it's not funny really.

Mum had low self esteem herself and I never understood why. Her parents were working class made good and she was a treasured only child. My granny was a thumping snob. I can remember her pointing out to me that one of my friends was lower down than me because he was a 'tradesman'. He owned a small supermarket, and they were a lot better off than we were!! My dad had worked his way up from being a trainee draughtsman at 16 to a qualified architect at 35.

My sister and I also used to talk a lot about how our mum liked our brothers more than us. She was much harsher on us and seemed to keep us at arm's length. We all found out the reasons for the low self esteem and finding it easier to love the boys two years ago. It turns out she gave twin girls up for adoption in 1962. It was the product of a holiday romance with an Italian guy when she was in Italy when she was 21. I dread to think how awful it must have been, knowing my grandparents. They were terribly upset. After that, she must have felt awful about herself, and I think all she wanted was to find a man to marry her and have a family with.

It's all very sad, but not all, because the twins got in touch with her eventually and they are lovely and we all love them. It's been really hard though. I have huge sympathy for my mum, but at the same time I can't help resenting how I can see it blighted my own life, and I struggle with the fact that she kept the secret for so long, when I've tried always so hard to be open with and close to her.

I'm 41 and definitely the last few years have been in a state of flux and constant stress for one reason and another. I fell in love with another man (with awful consequences, no affair or even anything close, however), started doing medicine, found out about the twins and now I'm ending my marriage. All these things are linked, and I'm working out who I am still. I'm terrified this house purchase etc won't work out. It seems scarily simple at the moment, and I can't believe it will go my way; I have a huge feeling I don't deserve it, or anything good that happens to me.

Kirsty, I'm glad you've changed your name, it is about moving on. But you've said you didn't think LiarsWife was witty. I've been on MN a fair bit recently (but like you, pointedly avoided this thread) and I loved LiarsWife because I thought it was a blunt and quite bolshy name. Angry and wronged, but not victim-like. I'm glad you are moving on now, and feel positive about leaving your house. My house is beautiful and has had years of effort and love put into it. I'm reminding myself though - it's bricks and mortar. Freedom - emotional, spiritual freedom - and autonomy is priceless. Deep down I'm hoping that if we are released from the burden of being married, dh and I kind find the friendship we lost along the way years ago.

It must be very difficult being on really bad terms. Things are hard for us now, but they are getting easier all the time, and I hope you are finding this too. It must be horrible feeling wronged. I am the 'guilty' party in my marriage. Not of any specific crime against it, but just getting to the point where I am was so unhappy I had to make it end. It is a big responsibility and I feel the guilt very keenly.

Wow, sorry for the epic post. Maybe it will make mia feel better about hers! ;)

I think, giving it my consideration, that if Frosty Jack was the only booze available, I would drink it. Or make my own 'moonshine'. Yep - that would probably taste ten times worse.

Just so many common denominators between us all. I am grateful too for surrendering and admitting that I am an alcoholic, even though it did take years and so much pain. I have gone completely the other way, today I will tell anyone who asks what and who I am, some look shocked, I suppose their reference point is some one from the gutter, others looked scared, just in case I can see that they might be one too, others are truly happy that I am as committed and passionate about a disease that is so stigmatized, especially amongst women.

Saf just baby steps that's all. You have to feel comfortable about it, no-one that is a recovering alcoholic will ever tell you what to do, it's futile.

Yep, Venus I never started out on cheap shit, ended up on anything that had a cork in it! My mentor and friend Nick, after he tried to kill himself on a railway line one Sunday, not realising that no trains were running that afternoon, was so upset for not even being able to top himself successfully, resorted to Brasso. He has been sober a very long time and one of the most charming men you would ever meet.

Everyone has their own unique way, even if there are the same triggers and traits, but it's always interesting to ask anyone who says that they don't think they have a problem, if the drink was taken away from them for say a month, a week, would they miss it? The ritual or the effect?

Best of luck today new and vintage babes, think I am going to have a cup of tea. xx

Would I drink cheap shit if I couldn't afford anything else? That's a really intriguing question actually and I'm going to give it some thought.

Yes. I think that you would. I know that a few Babes have gone from Smirnoff to value vodka in the blink of an eye because it was cheaper for a litre than 70mls of the good stuff.

It's not always a conscious decision, you could be in Aldi, yes, Aldi and get a bottle of wine for £2.99. It's red, full bodies and 13% so why not? You could get 6 of those for the price of a decent red elsewhere.....

For me the half price offers are ideal. Morrisons has a load of wine half price right now. DH bought 6 yesterday. 6 bottles of wine. To last the week and weekend. I may have a glass or two, I may not.

I honestly think that if your weapon of choice was not available, you would source another.

cup of tea sounds nice actually.

OOoooops - lots of X posting there..... we're all around today

Re cheap booze - dh bought a bottle of Sainsbury's Basics wine (plastic bottle, white label with orange writing) to splash into a risotto and I finished it off later. And when I started drinking it, it was room temperature. White wine is my weakness, and I will chill it with one of those sleeves from the freezer. One thing I have noticed is that while I used to wait for it to chill - only a few minutes, for fuck's sake - now I will put the sleeve on it still, but start drinking it before it's got cold at all :(

Lizzy I'm afraid I will never be friends with my Ex - the reality is I don't like him .. he is not the man he made out he was when we met. (And he is a lying twunt besides!)

I love my house too .. but last year when I knew (in my gut) that he was having an affair I hung on in order to keep my home for me and DD7 and it just wasn't worth it! A new place for me and DD is just what we need and it will be less of a tie to him

Everything sounds so positive about your house sale - what could go wrong??

KWx

Lizzy - me too. I've actually gotten back out of bed at night to put a bottle in the fridge to chill over night so that it was ice cold the following day

Keep posting, it's good to let it all out. No matter how small it seems to you, let it out,

MsGee, I've got two dd and I don't regret them having each other, but I also know there is loads of evidence that it's not an advantage in life having siblings. Only children very often have high self esteem and do well in life. This is not just an anecdotal view put about to counteract the wearisome and old-fashioned 'it's selfish to have an only child' view (which is also very damaging, because it's often not a choice). Your view that your dd is lucky not to have siblings is perfectly rational!!

Wow, Lizzie, there's a lot going on in your family - secret children, drink, snobbery (and inverted snobbery), favoured children...

I was thinking today about the two times my mum got completely wasted that I know of. Both times, she blamed the stress of being a mother to an ill child. Fair enough, it was hard for her as my sister was seriously ill throughout her childhood and I had a nervous breakdown in my 20s. But I still felt she didn't take full responsibility for her own actions.

The first time was when I was about 14. There was a party in the village - a barn dance. My little friend Paul and I won a huge bottle of wine on the tombola - the star prize! We were thrilled. We hoped we would be allowed a small glass each.

Well, we didn't get our wine because my mother downed it and then spent the rest of the night outside the venue, drunk and smoking (she doesn't smoke) and vomiting. I think she was also crying hysterically. I didn't see all of this, thank goodness and wasn't actually aware that she was drunk until the next day when she was hugely hungover and throwing up in the bathroom.

The second time, she and I both went to a party and got drunk. I was 25 and on anti-ds. My dad was furious with my mum. A few days later, I became suicidal and was admitted to a psychiatric hospital.

I have never, ever, seen my dad drunk and don't think I ever will. My brother drank heavily during his teens but my parents sort of tolerated it because they knew they couldn't stop him. I remember feeling really upset when it was my god daughter's baptism - a big occasion for me. He turned up pissed. Very pissed. Stinking of booze.

Thanks Kirsty, if I was on the outside wanting one of the houses in our little chain and secretly hoping wondering if it would fall through or go wrong, I'd think there was no chance. Our buyers we have mutual acquantainces with, and they are by all accounts decent people, seem to love our house and have been transparent with us. My sellers are also lovely people and I have been on saying hello/having a quick chat in the street terms with them for a few years. I didn't realise it was their house when I arranged to go and see it and they didn't want to show it at short notice, but when they found out it was me they offered to show me round at short notice themselves because they knew me. And when I turned up on the doorstep we did the kiss on each cheek thing. So they are nice and not strangers and all the parties involved have kids at the local primary schools and people in common. This is all good. But I suppose I'm wary of feeling positive about it because it's ME!! It's been one thing after another for the last few years and I can't believe anything that looks like it might go right!

Mouse thanks for your encouragement. I've read stuff you've written about your drinking habits and you sound a lot like me. Not always, depends on my mood disorder but I will often drink till I run out or pass out. I will have an occasion of memory loss several times a month as well. I woke up in a police cell three weeks before my wedding (passed out in taxi after drinks with the girls) and at Uni was taken to A&E after bumping my head, woke up in St Thomas's once before I got married (found passed out in street).

I'm apprehensive about living on my own. Someone on here said my dh is manipulative. He is quite manipulative, and is passive aggressive and used to be very critical of me for lots of things (just like my mother - funny that). A lot of things in life feel like a struggle - my medicine course, my sanity, my marriage. I may feel liberated and free on my own, or lonely and washed up. I don't know if I drink too much partly because of my unhappy marriage and because dh makes me feel uneasy all the time, and inadequate (as a mother, as a person) and if I'm alone I will drink less, but I also know that fear of dh's disapproval can act as a brake on drinking. Which way will it go? I have to make it go the right way. But I am afraid. For all my faults and inadequacies, I have a fantastic relationship with my dd, and I'd hate to become a liability. Dh is steady and a great dad.

I'm still drinking too much, but it's much better than it was a few years ago. My course gives me focus and routine, which helps. When I leave this house, I will leave the Aga behind. This is a good thing!! I got a second degree burn on my back from passing out leaning against it when I was drunk. Another time I got one on my arm, another time I burnt my foot, which was covered by a huge, water filled blister.

I'm so ashamed writing all these things. I can't even talk to my RL friends about this shit, and I feel really vulnerable and exposed. I'm also concerned what people might think about the fact that I'm training to be a doctor and have had these problems. The blisters were a few years ago and that would be something that would feel very unlikely to happen now. But there isn't any room for complacency I know.

I don't know about others, but I have a love-hate relationship with booze. I don't want to romanticise, maybe I need to get over this view, but I've always thought that people who drink a bit too much, like smokers, are often the most interesting ones at the party. Not a boorish drunk, but just people who thrill-seek a little and aren't hidebound by bourgeois and prim stereotypes of 'good behaviour'. I am sure I need to get over this. Fact is, there are lots of things about drinking and getting drunk that are good fun. Problem is, it can stop being fun and the tipping point where this happens creeps up on you without you realising.

It's lovely to come on here and feel 'safe' to talk to other people who understand. I'm new here and am finding the babes are interesting, thoughful, compassionate and humorous. Lots of us are probably the kind of people we'd love to get pissed with, aren't we? :(

evening.

i am determined to go. i've been and checked the bus times at the stop as they're always changing the times and i always seem to get caught out and i have set my alarm so i can't accidentally get distracted and miss the bus (i'm good at doing that too).

i've tried hard with the better self care stuff today - made myself eat lunch, just made myself have some toast even though not hungry and had a cup of tea with some chocolate. i've also been drinking lots of water.

my handbag has mints and tic tacs for sugar needs and to remind me not to drink odd as that may sound.

i've got my kindle so i'll just try and find a bench and read till it is time for the meeting.

can't believe i'm actually going to do this!

sorry for all the me, me, me today.

saf God, you are so brave. I daren't go to AA, though I've found out where local meetings are more than once. I feel like it's admitting something I don't want to admit. FWIW, I think lots of people go unsure, and get won over by it. But I'm not sure I want to do that, either.

Please do let us know how you get on.xx