When does a slap become abuse?

[TheRhubarb]

Now I realise this will get a very emotive response so if you feel that you are getting upset by this thread then please do hide it. I am not here to play on anyone's feelings but I have been wondering about something for a couple of days now and wanted other people's opinions.

I have seen a few threads on Mumsnet where a parent has become really angry with their child and slapped them in anger. They are then very remorseful, come onto Mumsnet and for the most part they are consoled and told that it wasn't all their fault, that it can happen to the most patient of us, etc etc.

Yet someone can post about their partner giving them a slap once, in anger, in the heat of an argument. That partner can be full of remorse but they are a violent bully and the other person a victim of domestic abuse.

So I wanted to know where the distinction lies? Why is it different to slap children and not adults? Is there any distinction between lashing out in rage once and repeated abuse over a period of time?

I'm not here to defend any form of violence or aggression by the way, I am just curious as to what is the difference between slapping a child and an adult and why they both get very different responses on Mumsnet.

I'm not sure. Many parents will say they have hit out of fear of their child getting hurt for instance and some adults will hit out of pure frustration and anger.

I'm not sure that power is the simple answer here.

If it is regular abuse then I completely agree with you, but for one-off incidents I think it's a little more complicated. Especially when you look at how varied the reactions are to them.

I agree that it's a complex beast!! And I agree that the reactions are different.

I guess I won't get any answers!

But I just wanted to challenge my own preconceptions along with those of others. I've often heard it said on Mumsnet that one hit is always the start of something more, but never heard that used when it comes to hitting children. A parent is never told that because they hit out in anger, that makes them an abuser and they will go on to hit again.

It's so strange how our opinions change depending on age and gender.

I think posters who get sympathy for admitting to hitting their child out of anger get that sympathy from other MNers who have either been in the same situation with their own child or who experienced a parent smacking them once or twice in anger, and therefore can sympathise and almost justify it.

It's just more socially acceptable, although I do think that is changing and our children won't hold the same views on smacking, as a general rule, as people form previous generations who grew up in a time when it was acceptable to smack as part of discipline.

Social norms take generations to change.

Rhubarb- I wouldn't say that, but I might well think it. However, a woman can be supported tonleave a violent relationship, but a child can't. So a mother coming on here needs to be helped not to do it again- the child is, after all, stuck with their parents! And also most people who hit their children even in anger maintain enough self-control not to break the child's nose or black their eye.

You can't walk away from a child

They follow you
They cry
You can't walk away from them and go and shut yourself away, they might hurt themselves
You can't leave the house
Of course you can't walk away from them

I think smacking anyone out of anger is wrong. I dont smack my children out of anger though. If they do something wrong, and they have been warned about their behaviour, and that they will get a smack if they continue, then they will receive a smack if they do continue, but it is not out of anger. I would not smack my dp though as he is an adult and as it has already been pointed out my relationship with him is completely different to that of my children. I can think of instances where force is acceptable between adults though and it comes down to the nature of the relationship.

Kickme so you think pre meditated is better?

If a smack worked then you would only have to do it once.So it is ineffective unless of course you have only struck them once.

The pre-meditated thing, doing it in a planned way with a cool head, now that I simply don't understand.

I know I would have thought with a cool head you could reason or at least see that smacking doesn't work. And from this example the threat of it doesn't work either.

My personal reasoning on the way we respond to this is because we all know that it is so much more complicated to tell a parent they are an unfit parent because they have hit their child . The resources just aren't there .

But if one adult hits another adult then you are actually an independent person who can live without the other adult in your life , it might be emotionally painful to walk away but not in the same way that a child would suffer having to live without their parent .

No that is true but it is further down the road it can impact. My mum smacked us we are all resentful (or were) but she now really really regrets it and wishes she hadn't .It achieved nothing as we continued to be who we were naughtiness is subjective She now admits it was her own frustration

If a smack worked then you would only have to do it once.So it is ineffective

You could say that about any form of discipline, naught chair/step, removal of privileges, discussion of boundaries etc. Im pretty sure that whatever discipline parents choose, they have used it more once.

Why can people who smack never admit it is wrong until its too late?

noddy, many of them do to be fair.

But again, my point is not smacking as a form of discipline. My point is a smack out of anger.
So a child is winding you up, you are stressed, everything is going wrong, you see red and you hit out right at that moment. You regret it, you say sorry, you say it won't happen again and that's ok.

Your partner is winding you up, you are stressed, everything is going wrong, you see red and hit out at that moment. You regret it, you say sorry, you say it won't happen again. That's not ok and according to some posters (I would hazard at most?) would say that one slap will lead to another.

This is not a debate about whether or not hitting as a form of discipline is right or wrong. It's about why we view two situations, one with a vulnerable, innocent young child who cannot walk away and one with an independent free-thinking adult who can walk away - why we view those two situations differently?

Why is it ok for an adult to hit a child once, out of anger and for that adult to be seen as just human, as someone who probably won't do it again? Yet an adult who hits another adult once, out of anger is labelled as an abuser who will almost certainly do it again?

What is the reasoning behind this view?

I think, Rhubarb, looking at this thread, most, as in a substantial majority of posters, feel it is ok to treat children differently to adults. It also appears that this difference consists of various forms of control.
I would argue that, once this is deemed acceptable as a basis for a, relationship, violence in many forms will result, including violence in anger. It will be justified because a control based relationship - not one based on love and respect for another human being - is the socially accepted norm, and this, again, will lead to differing levels of accountability .

arthritic seeing you back could you expand on your GBH post please? It has been bothering me. Thanks

Ok, An example. Watching an old episode of 'New Tricks' this evening. One of the characters - I'm rubbish at names - told a story about hitting his boss a few years before. The boss had really wound him up, so he 'hit him'. Of his boss, he says 'of course he prosecuted'.
One hit, even under provocation, means being accused of assault.

It was this though:

"How about this: women (occasionally) make use of the law against GBH - which has always existed"

What does that mean?

I would imagine a man "hitting" another man would mean a punch in the face.

I don't think that thread is about people punching children in the face.

And the talk of GBH.

How much force do you think the people on this thread who "slap" their children are using?

Or smack, rather.

That, if you look into domestic violence, it has never been sanctioned by law. It is just that it is only very recently that victims of domestic violence have used the law to help them stand up for themselves. My understanding of the law - and anyone is free to correct me here - is that there is no law specifically forbidding domestic violence. Physical violence against women partners is covered by existing laws which forbid violence against anyone at all.

I don't understand why you bring GBH into this thread though?

The people on this thread who smack their children are (I hope) not beating them as seriously as to incur GBH.

I also doubt the person on new tricks was referring to being "tapped" on the hand, it sounds like a punch.

Incidentally DV laws have always been different. For eg the defence of a "crime of passion" was allowed up until quite recently.

Rape within marriage was legal up until relatively recently as well.