When does a slap become abuse?

[TheRhubarb]

Now I realise this will get a very emotive response so if you feel that you are getting upset by this thread then please do hide it. I am not here to play on anyone's feelings but I have been wondering about something for a couple of days now and wanted other people's opinions.

I have seen a few threads on Mumsnet where a parent has become really angry with their child and slapped them in anger. They are then very remorseful, come onto Mumsnet and for the most part they are consoled and told that it wasn't all their fault, that it can happen to the most patient of us, etc etc.

Yet someone can post about their partner giving them a slap once, in anger, in the heat of an argument. That partner can be full of remorse but they are a violent bully and the other person a victim of domestic abuse.

So I wanted to know where the distinction lies? Why is it different to slap children and not adults? Is there any distinction between lashing out in rage once and repeated abuse over a period of time?

I'm not here to defend any form of violence or aggression by the way, I am just curious as to what is the difference between slapping a child and an adult and why they both get very different responses on Mumsnet.

ionysis no I'm not saying that - did I give that impression?

I just think there is a little more to it.
Duelling - that's a good one.

Dinah - are there different kinds of slaps? I understand slapping hands away from an oven but that's not really what I'm talking about. I'm talking about hitting a child out of temper.

i think a slap becomes abuse when it changes from a thought to an action, regardless of who the recipient is.

i think slapping a child because you are their parent is an abuse of the natural authority the parental role requires you to have.

i speak as a parent who has slapped my child out of a mix of temper, frustration, anger. i am ashamed of what i did to my child and i do beleive i abused my postion as a parent. i would never accept abyone else harming my child and nothing makes it less abusive for me to do it. the pain to the child is tha same whether a parent does it or someone else.

children have no voice???

you havent met my daughter

Dinah that is very interesting and a very good way of putting it.

"many people who use physical discipline are also abusers, but many people are not, therefore id say that its not the actual smack thats abuse, but many other things combined with the smacking." - but can this model be used for both children and adults?

My main point is that a one-off smack done out of pure temper and frustration can often evoke very different reactions from people when it's done a) to a child and b) to an adult.

So - same situation, same smack, out of temper. One with a child and one with an adult. Why is one more tolerated than the other?

No to hitting children whose hands are near the oven. No to ALL hitting. No to naughty step. No to degrading other human beings. Especially those who are too young and small to have the arms to stand up to us.

so what people are saying is if you can't make a child understand, because they are too young or they don't have the ability to speak a language, then it's ok to hit them?

wow.

Why is it different to slap children and not adults?

There is no difference. BOTH involve loss of control, becoming overwhelmed by emotion, projecting and attacking the other person for 'attacking' you.

By the way - I do think slapping anyones hand, child or adult, away from danger (Fire, acid etc) is ok. It's a defensive thing and you are stopping them from getting hurt. it is definitely not the same thing as hitting a child because they have been naughty/vocal/rude etc.

Hi DF!

i dont know, i dont think it is really acceptable to smack in a temper very much these days is it? Beating children is illegal, but little smacks in discipline are generally overlooked, but people are usually embarrassed to admit it. Probably depends on your circle though.

I think its a shame really. Childrearing is harder than ever. Children are far more dependent, under our feet for much longer, It is always seen as the parents fault how children turn out, and theyre generally entitled to much more than ever before and theres a great deal of children that grow up feeling untouchable, and methods of discipline used without question through the ages are being constantly debated as to whether theyre abusive, or very definitely labelled as such, and what is the benefit. Are our children becoming better citizens as a result?

I think you are right though ArthriticFingers, no need to slap hands away most of the time.

hi :)

i think the slapping a child's hand away from danger is a rubbish excuse TBH. if you have time to slap you have time to pull their hand away or even pull the child away. there is no need to slap.

tbh i get a feeling that all the talk of this being abusive etc, is more of a stick to beat women/mothers with (if you pardon the pun) than anything. Way to give mothers less control, whilst they are bearing more blame for everything than ever before

Just to clarify I haven't ever had to slap a hand away from a fire, but did have to carry out a threat (when nothing else worked on a 2yr old) about smacking a hand when my boys kept slamming a glass door that wasn't safe. It was horrid, but the alternative was so much worse.

so what if theres no need. What is the big deal between slapping a hand away and pulling a hand away?

I'm not saying that it is acceptable by the way! I'm just interested in how both are viewed.

If you post two separate threads, describing incidents of an adult losing their temper and hitting once in anger but one thread included a child and the other an adult. The adult one would be swamped with calls of domestic violence and abuse whereas the other involving the child would largely get sympathy and similar experiences from other parents.

It confuses me why there is this distinction and I wanted to know how people viewed them. Because I know that I also make the distinction in part, even though I know it's wrong.

"so what if theres no need. What is the big deal between slapping a hand away and pulling a hand away?"

I meant that there is no need to slap as you can pull hands away instead.

Dinah - I am careful to say parents rather than mothers but again you've raised a good point. Is a father hitting a child worse than a mother hitting a child?

No to hitting children whose hands are near the oven. No to ALL hitting. No to naughty step.

How DO you propose disciplining a child who is acting out, aggressive, frustrated or testing the boundaries then? Or are you all for "free range" parenting and allowing your little brat darling to do whatever they like?

"so what if theres no need. What is the big deal between slapping a hand away and pulling a hand away?"

one inflicts pain and one doesn't?

the irony of inflicting pain as a way to prevent a child hurting themselves.

free range parenting is not for everyone, and would drive most people mad.
Some would say it was a form of neglect and not doing your child any favours, but I think we need to just accept that there are different methods of parenting.
Noone wants to see children beaten or hurt except for abusers, and there are plenty of abusers that dont hit, and plenty of people that use smacking in their discipline and it and works and the children are absolutely fine, in which case it is noone elses business at all

ionysis why are you so sneery of parents who dont hit? why do you assume people who dont hit have brats rather than well behaved children? free range is a term used to describe chickens not children BTW.

My DCs are in their late teens now, and, yes, they have driven me to distraction. And, yes, I have seriously considered beating them senseless with a baseball bat. BUT, I have NEVER thought that behaving badly was a way to teach good behaviour. They are doing well at school, have good social lives. They are polite, communicative and fun. I NEVER thought that these were values that had to beaten in to them.
I think that many parents are afraid of what society will say about their children. One mother I knew when my children were toddlers said that she had to hit her children because, otherwise, they would turn out bad
I think that parents (and I agree that society tends to excuse them) have excuses that violent abusive men do not have access to
'They are teaching them manners'
The area, however, (to get back to the original question) becomes much more blurred when one uses the excuse:
'I lost it'

This is going off into the direction of a debate on whether it's ok to smack children or not.
What I wanted to know was why the distinction between smacking children and adults is different if the motives and situation was the same.

I suspect we just think that it IS different somehow, without really knowing why? I wanted to challenge that.

Hope I pushed it back on track Rhubarb