Shuddery feeling

[KarmaK]

Anyone who's read my previous posts about men may know that I'm very good at picking awful men. LMAO!!

I met a guy several weeks ago and he has been pursuing me hard. I didn't see him for a while because in the meantime I met another guy who turned out to be really bad news. Anyway, this guy now is very keen. We've been on one date and we've talked for hours on the phone. I've stood him up twice (or three times?) for dates because right before the date I get this feeling of dread as if my entire body is telling me DON'T MEET HIM

The one time I did go out with him I had what I suppose I'd call a good time but there were certain things I didn't like. For example, he took hold of my hand and kept holding my hand in the freakin' bar and I felt awkward and grossed out. I barely know the guy - why is he holding my hand? Then when I missed the last train home he said "good" and tried to get me to go back to his hotel, purportedly for a drink. In the end I just got the nightbus home and didn't go anywhere near his hotel. I'm due to see him tomorrow night. I've already stood him up once this week. I don't know how to get out of seeing him tomorrow night.

I suppose I could just go for a drink but he's talking about picking me up in his car and dropping me off. I'm terrified he'll make some excuse to try to get inside my flat, like claiming he needs to use the loo or something. How would I then say "no I'm not letting you use my loo."

Also we were talking on the phone about random stuff. He asked me if I intended to have children and I said I wasn't sure. He then said "I want you to have a baby for me." Obviously he was joking (I hope!) but he kept saying it.

Not sure what to do

I'd run for the hills!

I don't know how to get out of seeing him tomorrow night.

Just tell him he's dumped! He invades your space, jumps the gun, tries to manipulate you and wants you to have a baby "for" him. I'm shuddering from here

I'm shuddering from here

LOL

My "How To Deal With Men" ability clearly needs tuning up!!

not sure what to do???
no need for extra sensory perception here!
This guy is quite clearly one to avoid, he thinks he can win you over because you spent ages on the phone to him and then you gave in and met him after initially refusing.

I predict he will be very persistent, I think you need to be firm and dont give him any more of your time.
Think of a good excuse, be polite but firm, then break off contact.

For heaven's sake, what are you like?

You've just got rid of one tosser and now it transpires you've been keeping another on the back burner.

You've been on one date with other this knob who set your twat radar pinging frantically, yet you've continued to be in contact with him, have agreed to meet him again tonight, and now need to bail get out of it.

Give him a call and say 'I won't be able to make it tonight or anytime -ever in the foreseeable future as my big, beefy, male cousin/brother/father/ uncle/burly guy I met on the bus home is unexpectedly in town and coming to crash at my place for the next few weeks and then I'm planning to go stay with them. Don't call me, I'll call you. Goodbye forever'.

Simples. Sorted. Heave sigh of relief and look forward to a twat-free weekend.

For future twat relief, keep an assortment of cop-outs handy and use them to make your excuses and leave as soon as your radar starts emitting alarming noises.

Listen to your gut instinct, Its screaming at you and you know it.

What izzyizin said was a good template for getting off the radar.

I need to figure out why the hell I seem to feel I owe these guys something. The bottom line is surely just because they've taken it upon themselves to fancy me or whatever doesn't mean I am obliged to go along with it. I actually feel horribly guilty for not fancying this guy. But I think my feelings when he grabbed my hand that time say it all: I felt vaguely nauseous and embarrassed to be seen in public holding his hand.

Why do you seem to feel you owe these guys something? Was your mother a pushover for your dad? Were you raised to think you were a bit crap and should be grateful for any attention you could get? Did you come from a family that prizes boys above girls? Were you made to feel shamed or guilty for being a girl and being pretty? Did your dad go away a lot, so you became scared of men leaving (and possibly, also, scared of getting safely attached to one.)

You know why, really. It sometimes takes a bit of poking to fish it out and deal with it. But you've asked the question, so you're on the right track!
Well done, you :)

To answer your questions, Garlicbutter:

Why do you seem to feel you owe these guys something? Was your mother a pushover for your dad?

I was raised in foster care. But I did have unsupervised contact with my mum but never set eyes on my dad so I've no idea how they interacted.

Were you raised to think you were a bit crap and should be grateful for any attention you could get?

Yes basically.

Were you made to feel shamed or guilty for being a girl and being pretty?

Yes. Was sexually abused from a very young age and I felt it was my fault for being a girl etc. It's possible one of the abusers actually even told me at the time that it was my fault as I feel this so strongly. The blame was definitely put onto me as bizarre as that sounds considering I was a small child.

I actually feel really ill just thinking about this. I hate it so so so much when some random guy eyes me up in the street. It actually scares the living daylights out of me because I feel as if I don't own my own body and that such men could abuse me or force me to interact with them in some way whenever they felt like it.

Oh, dear. Poor you :( No wonder you have conflicted feelings around the whole relationship thing! Did people believe you about the abuse, and how much therapy have you done? It's not at all bizarre that you felt to blame for your abuse - abusers habitually do that, it saves them having to take responsibility for their own actions

You probably have some misplaced boundaries, as your childhood didn't provide the safety and validation we need to firm up a healthy identity, and attachment issues on top of all that ... it's a lot to take on, yes. One thing I can tell you is that Mumsnet is brilliant for helping you figure it out and develop a set of worthwhile standards :)

Have you seen the Stately Homes and sexual abuse survivor threads on here? I think they're both on the front page at the moment.

Can you see it as a positive that you have recognised that this man is like that before you have involved yourself with him to any real extent?

You should be able to disengage from him without any discussion or confrontation. Would it work to even send him a text or email just saying that you wont be able to meet him again? You dont have to give him a reason, just say it isnt possible.

Does it help you see things more clearly when you write it down? You do seem to know its wrong.
If it was someone else in this position what advice would you give to them?
I really hope you get some clarity and that you find a nice partner.

Removing the word 'sorry' from your everyday vocabularly will make you sound more assertive than you may be feeling.

If I'm caught bang to rights feeling particularly remorseful I say 'mea culpa, I screwed up'. If I'm asked to go somewhere I don't want to be, I say 'I'll have to pass on that as I'd prefer to watch paint dry I'm otherwise engaged'. I often give 'my apologies' but I only use 'sorry' for condolences.

Don't ever say 'sorry' to a twat, honey, because they always see kindness as weakness.

I'm really impressed by you. Your gut instincts are working incredibly well but your kindness and good manners are trying to override it. I completely empathise. Listen to the gut and politely end it would be my advice

Karma, please absorb the good advice on this thread, protect yourself and remember that you are in charge of your body, no one else has any right of access to you:)

Listen to you gut feeling and avoid ... this will leave you free to meet someone you actually like!! :)

Listen to the gut and politely end it

Yes. Politely but firmly. And don't let the nutter guilt you into explaining yourself, giving him another chance, seeing him one last time, etc.

"I do not want to see you anymore" is perfectly sufficient. Really. You need no other reason to stop seeing him other than the fact that you no longer want to. Repeat as necessary, along with the word "No".

If it was someone else in this position what advice would you give to them?

I would tell them "you don't owe this man anything!!! Tell him to get lost."

Ladies, I am really grateful for your advice! It's actually really helpful and even though I must sound bloody clueless you can probably see that there is a reason why. Obviously I have to work these things out for myself but it's fantastic to come on here and read such good practical advice.

Bloody hell, I think you've had a lucky escape, KarmaK.

When you missed the last train home, was that situation engineered by him? Persuading you to have just one more drink, etc etc...

He's being very persistant. I wouldn't keep arranging to meet someone who stood me up multiple times, unless I was going to gain something from them.

You realise that he will intends to have sex with you this weekend, don't you?
How does that make you feel? Sick? Scared? Repulsed?

Don't meet him Karma. Just block him, please.

*intend

You realise that he will intends to have sex with you this weekend, don't you? -

what makes you say that?

I just think he does, based on what you said about trying to get you to go to his hotel, plus he keeps arranging dates which you keep cancelling.

Most men would have given up by now, why hasn't he?

I've done it! I mean, I haven't spoken to him yet but I've made up my mind 100% not to see him tonight. And I will stick to it. It feels great although there are still those feelings of guilt!