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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Shuddery feeling

67 replies

KarmaK · 23/03/2012 00:54

Anyone who's read my previous posts about men may know that I'm very good at picking awful men. LMAO!!

I met a guy several weeks ago and he has been pursuing me hard. I didn't see him for a while because in the meantime I met another guy who turned out to be really bad news. Anyway, this guy now is very keen. We've been on one date and we've talked for hours on the phone. I've stood him up twice (or three times?) for dates because right before the date I get this feeling of dread as if my entire body is telling me DON'T MEET HIM

The one time I did go out with him I had what I suppose I'd call a good time but there were certain things I didn't like. For example, he took hold of my hand and kept holding my hand in the freakin' bar and I felt awkward and grossed out. I barely know the guy - why is he holding my hand? Then when I missed the last train home he said "good" and tried to get me to go back to his hotel, purportedly for a drink. In the end I just got the nightbus home and didn't go anywhere near his hotel. I'm due to see him tomorrow night. I've already stood him up once this week. I don't know how to get out of seeing him tomorrow night.

I suppose I could just go for a drink but he's talking about picking me up in his car and dropping me off. I'm terrified he'll make some excuse to try to get inside my flat, like claiming he needs to use the loo or something. How would I then say "no I'm not letting you use my loo."

Also we were talking on the phone about random stuff. He asked me if I intended to have children and I said I wasn't sure. He then said "I want you to have a baby for me." Obviously he was joking (I hope!) but he kept saying it.

Not sure what to do

OP posts:
Original poster
KarmaK · 23/03/2012 11:21

There is one detail I did not add. He lives in a different part of the country to me. I am in London and he is in the north but he travels to London on business at least once a fortnight. Anyway, he has repeatedly asked - or almost demanded - that I go to his house to spend the weekend there. I recall him saying "You can even sleep in the spare room if you want to." And he keeps saying "So when are you coming to stay the weekend at my house" - like he gets really persistent about it.

Only now am I starting to see that this is not "normal". Heck if I was interested in a guy and had only just met him I wouldn't be pressurizing him and bullying him into spending the weekend at my house. I wouldn't even want a near-stranger to pitch up at my house for the weekend.

I guess this man has sensed that my boundaries are a mess and he thinks he can shag me or something even though it must be quite obvious to him that I don't want him.

OP posts:
DinahMoHum · 23/03/2012 11:43

avoid avoid avoid. Hes setting all your alarm bells ringing. We have instincts for a reason, and hes completely ignoring all your signals. You can just say im sorry im not interested, its not working for me.

HotDAMNlifeisgood · 23/03/2012 11:48

Of course it's obvious, but he doesn't care what you think.

That's why he's unlikely to take your "no" to mean "no", because that's not what he wants to hear, and since when did objects get a say in anything? So be prepared to be firm, and to cut contact once you say no and he refuses to accept it.

21YrOldMan · 23/03/2012 11:51

I haven't read the whole thread, but please stop dating until you've had counselling and can actually tell someone "I don't like you, sorry, bye" without feeling guilty.

Because until then there's a high probability that you're going to get fucked by someone who is really quite hideous, at which point you'll feel more indebted to them and so feel like you really can't break up with them, and then it gets really awkward, especially if you end up with a kid from the experience. That would be seriously unfunny, don't you think?

Original poster
KarmaK · 23/03/2012 11:53

there's a high probability that you're going to get fucked by someone who is really quite hideous

I'm not going to consent to sex with somebody who is hideous. So when you say "you're going to get fucked by someone who is really quite hideous" I presume you are talking about rape.

As for counselling, I am having it. These major changes don't just happen overnight, it takes time to unlearn everything you have learned.

OP posts:
Original poster
KarmaK · 23/03/2012 11:55

Actually 21YrOldMan, I've just read your post and I wanted to ask you a question. Were you purposely meaning to be abusive and vulgar? I'm just concerned about not only your use of language but also your suggestion that there is a "high probability" of me having sex with somebody I find hideous and further you seem to suggest that I would have unprotected sex as you quite randomly add "if you end up with a kid from the experience."

Nothing in ANYTHING I've posted has suggested that I have problems saying no to sex. In fact I'm so wary of having sex before I'm ready for it that I've not even had sex since 2007 despite having dated during that time.

OP posts:
HotDAMNlifeisgood · 23/03/2012 12:15

Well done on reacting to 21YOM's post, KarmaK: your twat radar is improving by the minute.

Original poster
KarmaK · 23/03/2012 12:18

LOL HotDAMN.

OP posts:
oldqueenie · 23/03/2012 12:29

oh op.... very glad to hear you're having counselling. you sound quite vulnerable. why do you think you have to date anyone at all at the moment? what would be so bad about putting yourself first and sorting out some of your issues from difficult past first? how old are you? plenty of time left for meeting someone? be kind to yourself.
and well done for telling that poster to sod off...

Original poster
KarmaK · 23/03/2012 12:34

Hi Queenie, what I would REALLY like to do right now is just take time off from dating. Hell, I'm not even 100% sure yet that I'm heterosexual. I do feel pressure to at least vaguely be dating though just because I think it's what normal people do. However, if overnight men stop trying to pursue me then my dating life will stop and I'll be glad it's stopped. I'd never go out of my way to try to find men or join a dating site or anything. I'm happiest when single if I'm perfectly honest. I feel safer that way and more at peace.

OP posts:
oldqueenie · 23/03/2012 12:41

you don't have to date / spend time with / even speak to ANYONE just because they show interest in you or "pursue" you. you owe these strangers NOTHING. if you think being single is what's best for you then you can you know JUST SAY NO. Really. You can!
your thinking does seem a bit skewed (sorry if that sounds rude but not sure how else to put it). do some work on yourself before getting involved with anyone else.

Original poster
KarmaK · 23/03/2012 12:51

in a way the response is like that of a kicked dog. One of my uncles way back when I was a child had this dog he claimed to love but he was always kicking it or otherwise abusing it. The dog would sometimes be quite seriously hurt by him and yet the dog would go bounding straight towards him every time, like it had been conditioned to accept or seem to even seek out further abuse

With me from my earliest memories I was being sexually assaulted which is of course a polite way of talking about child rape. Even the lesser abuse that went on involved constant violation of my boundaries. Some grown man would be pawing at me, telling me how "cute" I was, my mother would tell me to go sit on the man's lap and before I knew it the man would be touching me up. And this was going on even before I was old enough to start primary school. While I knew the rape was wrong because it's violent etc I honestly thought all this touching up was just normal, just what men did to girls. I did used to try to get away from this men, refuse to sit on their lap, start crying, even run away and when I did any of that I'd get punished and forced into it. So from an early age I was conditioned to just tolerate men touching me up and to have men I found repulsive constantly hassling me and saying creepy cringeworthy dirty things to me. I learned as a child that if I complain or dare to refuse I'd just get abused even more. It is now a matter of UNlearning all those years of "programming"

I honestly believe that predatory men sense these issues in me. Yuck.

OP posts:
doctordwt · 23/03/2012 12:56

There's the answer. Stop dating, yes!!! 'Normal'? Well yes it's normal to be interested in dating, but it's also normal not to be at certain points when other things take priority.

I urge you to say to yourself, with a powerful and self-assured smile, 'No, I'm not dating at the moment. I have some bigger priorities that I'm enjoying focusing on.'

Because you do. You have much to be sorting out, it seems... And because you are clever and articulate, you know that you do. Because you are clever and articulate I also think that you will actually enjoy this process if you concentrate your efforts on it - your therapy, getting to know yourself and learn how and why you react as you do, and how you can change to get more out of life (including repelling twats effectively!)

Think about it - isn't it just as important a part of the 'process' of finding a partner, having a family, as the actual dating? When you DO meet 'the one', dont you want it to be from a position of security, happiness, so that you can be confident in starting a good, solid relationship?

Far more of a timewaster to flail around dating randomly, not sure of what you want, whilst neglecting the groundwork that needs to be done on your solo happiness first. Think of it that way, and not dating for a while makes goid solid sense.

henrysmama2012 · 23/03/2012 13:06

Stop dating for a while, that's good advice. You sound very together given everything you had to go through as as a kid. Maybe something as simple as writing down your boundaries of what you will accept from a man - in very black and white terms - then sticking to that list always - would also help? For example, if a man is too pushy, dump him..etc.

That also avoids guilty feelings - you will have out thought in advance as to why those boundaries are important so anyone violating them can be told to jog on, & you won't feel bad about it!

mummytime · 23/03/2012 13:06

Don't date. Get a social life, go to the gym, take courses. If someone asks you on a date, have your first response to be "I'm just not dating at present, sorry."
If the person really likes you they will be willing to be your friend, and get to know you better.
You could even set a time limit on one to ones, say 1/2 hour for a quick coffee, then go!
Dating is not compulsory, just learn to say No.

Original poster
KarmaK · 23/03/2012 13:11

Don't date. Get a social life, go to the gym, take courses. If someone asks you on a date, have your first response to be "I'm just not dating at present, sorry."

I already have a pretty active social life. I hate the gym but I do other things like yoga. Anyway, with this guy I actually did use the "I'M NOT DATING RIGHT NOW" line on him and he COMPLETELY bull-dozed over it. He told me I must at least try and that he and I are good together. I have told him at least three times (possibly more) in very clear language that I AM NOT DATING FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE because I have some personal stuff to take care of. Each time he has refused to accept what I've said.

That in itself tells me a lot!

OP posts:
TheNorthWitch · 23/03/2012 13:16

If you are not dating at the moment why were you on a date?

Original poster
KarmaK · 23/03/2012 13:20

I was lying to him NorthWitch. I am (or at least was, at that time) open to dating if somebody really nice came along. The fact of the matter is that he is NOT really nice :-) So if I'd been perfectly honest with him I would have said:

I don't want to date YOU

OP posts:
HoudiniHissy · 23/03/2012 13:22

KarmaK, your instincts are working perfectly love. Listen to them. Anyone who fails to take no for an answer needs to be dumped immediately.

allthequeensmen · 23/03/2012 13:26

Er northwitch read the thread, OP has been going through a thought process during this thread and has now decided she no longer wants to date.

OP, I wanted to punch the air with joy when you pulled 21yearoldman up on his comment. That's exactly the kind of strength you need to build on, go girl!!

Original poster
KarmaK · 23/03/2012 13:29

Thanks Houdini

And thanks Allthequeensmen!!!!

I feel so thrilled about tonight (that I'm NOT seeing that guy). Woo-hoo!!!!! I get to have a quiet night at home, watching vids, ordering some takeout and not being pawed at by some overly persistent guy! :-)

OP posts:
TheNorthWitch · 23/03/2012 13:30

Em I did read the thread thanks. OP said to creep that she didn't want to date him (several times) BUT was on a date with him??

Original poster
KarmaK · 23/03/2012 13:35

Em I did read the thread thanks. OP said to creep that she didn't want to date him (several times) BUT was on a date with him??

Yes that is correct. As I've explained in my post above I was lying to him.

OP posts:
mummytime · 23/03/2012 13:49

Well done! Now come back and talk to Aunty MN next time someone doesn't take NO for an answer.
You said No. Your twat radar was working. You sought help. Now you are saying NO again. That sounds pretty good.

TheNorthWitch · 23/03/2012 13:51

The point I'm making is that you told him (lying or not doesn't matter) I'm not dating - and then went on a date with him. It sounds like your boundaries are off. If you let him bulldoze you into a date he will then think he can bulldoze you into other things as well (I think that might be the point 21YOM was making). A decent guy would not have tried to take advantage of your missing the train home - this guy did - he's total bad news. Agree with the posters who are saying don't date - I think you're much too vulnerable (not suprisingly given your childhood experiences)