Things plummeted to new depths with h

[feelokaboutit]

After latest argument with h, he is now totally stonewalling me. He is prone to doing this but will normally communicate about logistics to do with kids etc... He has now blasted me into kingdom come (metaphorically!) and is behaving as if I am not there. I asked him two questions today and it was as if I had not spoken.

Am worried what I might have to go through now emotionally .

This is not right, just cos you argue it doesnt mean you ahve to blank each other and this does not sound like a happy relationship for you to be in.

Yes, thanks for answering. I know I did not give much information but I wrote a really long essay first time round and then lost it and didn't have the heart to write it all again.

Basically (and a little shorter this time), h and I have problems in our relationship in general and he is prone to not talking to me for weeks after arguments.

This latest argument was about him calling 2 of our children "stupid" on Monday morning which I got annoyed about, he then turned on me asking me if I wanted to be next in the queue (to be called stupid). I think for him the phrase "stupid girl" or "stupid boy" is warranted if the behaviour is "bad" but I think it is an awful awful thing to say to a child. He does not do it often and is generally very affectionate to kids.

When he asked whether I wanted to be next in the queue I felt really outraged and got at so I said his opinion was meaningless. I said he was aggressive and horrible. He called me fat. I don't know who said what first.

He later (and I knew he would do this as he hadn't let off enough steam at me for standing up to him) had another go at me about the heating this time (not unwarranted annoyance but it was the way he did it) - something about him paying the bill while I "sit on my arse" - the phrase "up yours" was also used.

There is a long history of us not being close or getting on. I sent him a text which read: "I do not "sit on my arse". I am sick of being hated. We are never going to get on. I cannot talk to you because I am scared of your temper and nasty words. Let's call it a day." I don't know if he read this.

It's all awful. The worst thing about it is that we had been getting on better for the past few days. I think if h didn't have a short fuse and wasn't prone to criticising and sulking, and if I could talk to him about anything other than superficial stuff, then it would be ok.

He works very hard (is something of a workaholic) and is responsible in that way. He loves the kids loads. He is basically very very defensive and either doesn't like me personally, or would find it very difficult to become emotionally close with anyone. I don't know which. He is also quite a solitary person who really does not want to talk all that much. He spends every evening working on the computer for hours and hours.

So what are getting out of this relationship? If the answer is 'nothing but grief' why are are you staying in it?

Well, after today when I realised the extent of h's withdrawal, I am starting to think maybe it was okay before when he wasn't talking but would at least talk about basic logistics. Shows how little I think of myself .

I basically don't know if I should accept the parts of h's character which I don't like and try to ramp up the good or if the fact that we are emotionally distant from each other should be a deal breaker.
Both h and I would be devastated not to live with kids all the time if we split.

On a practical level I get a lot from the relationship. On an emotional level, very little.

I just have this horrible sick feeling at the thought of the extent of his present ostracism, how long it is going to last and how awful and disempowered I am going to feel .

It's so easy to see what is going on when it is somebody else - I have a thread going where I feel very distant from my h and he just doesn't seem to have any feelings or emotions whatsoever. Also a workaholic. Also good with the kids. From my bird's eye view, I would ask the same as izzyizin - why are you staying ? For me, I am staying because right now, I couldn't break up the family, my kids adore their dad and they would never forgive me. Some people seem to be ok without the emotional side. The lack of this seems to be a real problem for you, I wish I had an answer, I can't get my h to switch out of robot mode either.

Thank you mrsobrian. I have read your thread and I am sorry you are going through the same or similar. I too have been surprised (and somewhat reassured, sad to say) by how many people on here describe similar situations. Are you sure your kids would never forgive you? They love both of you, and if you were to separate one day, would extend their loyalty and love to both of you, especially if the way co-parenting is handled is calm and kind. Anyway, I am not preaching because I understand where you are at. You are part of a family which means a lot to you but at the same time, on a personal level, you feel emotionally bereft and lonely. It's very hard.
With regards to my issue, I would like to know if people think I shouldn't have complained to dh when he called by dd and ds "stupid girl" and "stupid boy" because it led to the the fallout which we now have, with dh totally and absolutely not talking to me, and me feeling anxious, ashamed and humiliated. My aunt has been telling me to book an appointment with Relate (in the past he has flatly refused to go telling me to tidy up instead (clutter was a bit issue with us)) and to tell him that if he doesn't go, it will be a signal to me that he is uninterested in salvaging the relationship (if this is possible).

I am realising that if we separate it will hurt like hell. At the same time however, I don't see how I can spend the next 20 / 30 years with someone with whom I discuss nothing.
I would be very grateful for some more opinions as I am not in a good place!!!

BIG issue

Have you considered whether there is someone else in your relationship

There are some red flags for infidelity here

Distancing himself, picking arguments for trivial reasons, setting you up for a row, hours on the pc etc

TBH I would have taken the same stance as you. It really isn't on to call names, especially children. They aren't stupid. Their actions may have been stupid or thoughtles, whatever, but they aren't stupid.

I would suggest relate, by yourself, if your (D) H won't go.

IMO children will pick up the atmosphere, and will be learning about relationships from you both, and will be thinking that non-communication and PA behaviour is the way to go:(

Good luck

feelokaboutit, I think you should pack his bag and tell him to leave, and he should come back when he is prepared to talk to you as an adult, and when he is prepared to do something to fix what is broken. Put the responsibility for running to fix this back in his court - this gives you back the power and makes him accept that he is actually in the wrong here too. Give him the number for Relate and let him know he needs to have booked a session by X date.

Make him take the responsibility.

I know you can never say never, but I am pretty sure not (of course who knows what may have happened in the 16 years we have been together ). There are no suspicious phonecalls. He is at home every evening. The computer work is work - developing websites and suchlike, he basically runs his whole life (in the evening) from the computer (works physically hard in the day). He finds it relaxing and intellectually stimulating (the website development).
What makes it all worse is that on friday, and sorry for tmi, we slept together for the first time in AGES and it was very nice (), and it's hard to reconcile that with the feeling of being disliked.
I don't think I would be devastated if he were seeing someone else, it might even be a relief, apart from the sadness of going through a divorce. What would be awful would be the not knowing and so of course living in a doomed relationship without even knowing why.

Thanks hatti and where. Thanks for confirming that calling them names wasn't okay. I agree I need to take my power back and start demanding some conversation, I don't quite know why I am so passive!!

You need to demand some respect as well as conversation.

And no,don't be mad at yourself for pulling him up about calling your children stupid. That's what he is trying to do, make it all your fault.

How do you feel when he calls you names? They are children, they feel bullied and powerless when they are verbally abused just like you. They also have the added pain of witnessing their mother being belittled. He calls names and sulks. His behaviour is ridiculous! How would he react if your dc started calling each other stupid and stopped talking to one another?
Leave the bastard- there I said it. Show your dcs that bullies do not get to control you, that they do not have to feel unhappy, disempowered, demeaned and belittled in their own home! Be a role model for them!

I have come across the theory ( book by Simon Baron -Cohen), simply put, that a lot of males are basically on the autistic spectrum, with their testosterone levels. So they can be really good with practical stuff in relationships but emotionally rubbish. I also then read some relationship forums for dealing with people married to partners, usually husbands (but occasionally it is the wife), with Aspergers and how they have often really, really struggled with the empathic blindness that often occurs from the genetic make up of such people. So, in a way, this lack of empathy is a genetic problem, not deliberate obstruction. BUT I think empathy can be learned...? But only if the lack of it is recognized as being a genetic deficiency..if that makes sense.

Reading that back I sound harsh-I'm sorry, I just wanted you to see that staying for the dc does not help them- my parents stayed together for us and I can't forgive my mother for not taking us away from that. Environment. They would have been good parents- seperatly. Together they made ny childhood miserable

"I think if h didn't have a short fuse and wasn't prone to criticising and sulking, and if I could talk to him about anything other than superficial stuff, then it would be ok.

He works very hard (is something of a workaholic) and is responsible in that way. He loves the kids loads. He is basically very very defensive and either doesn't like me personally, or would find it very difficult to become emotionally close with anyone. I don't know which. He is also quite a solitary person who really does not want to talk all that much. He spends every evening working on the computer for hours and hours.

You are describing someone who is emotionally unavailable, who punishes you/retaliates for bringing up problems, who uses work and hobbies to keep their distance, who uses silence as a barrier."

I am married to that person also. They don't change, just warning you! You will get dragged down/lose your friendships after a while, and unless you give up any expectations as a warm, feeling human being, you will leave in the end. Those are your two choices. Do I give up hope of living, or do I do the hard work of developing myself and my own life? That's it.

Yes, respect, I agree. I think h and I both have simmering resentments towards the other, and I know I have also damaged the relationship, but I would be prepared to talk about all of this, he isn't.
To be fair to h, him calling either ds or dd stupid is a rare occurrence. He has a short fuse and a hot temper when aroused, but is generally all over them with affection and attention (makes me jealous ).
Yes I hate being called names and yes it has happened that h does this. Only if I have really stood up to him though which says a lot I know about our dynamic. On the other hand I called him aggressive and horrible during our argument and said that his opinion was meaningless, so am I any better?
The thing about sleeping together which annoys me is that it never leads to more affection on a day to day basis, though it is affectionate while it is happening. That's why all of that stopped (less than 10 times a year counts as a sexless marriage doesn't it) apart from the odd occurrence like last friday when both of us clearly suddenly feel very lonely. Then the next night there was the party from hell next door and I was complaining to him about it (it was really awful, both of us went next door to complain but they did nothing and the booming did not stop until 7.30am in the morning) and he really did not want to know, turning over and saying he wanted to sleep (fair enough, but again it was the way he did it). What I am trying to say is that I never get the hand holding or affection that I want, never.
I agree that men find empathy more difficult.
I think the kids, though aware that things are not right between h and I and undoubtedly this is not good, are generally secure in the knowledge that both of us love them very much. It's not so much that the environment is terrible (though it could be better!), it's that I don't want them to grow up and replicate our non-communicative, unaffectionate relationship.

Thx abit, have just read your message, have to go to school to volunteer now but will come back this afternoon and respond. Thank you. And thanks everyone else. I am sorry you were unhappy pregnant and I don't think your message was harsh .

I couldn't live like that, I just couldn't. I don't know how it doesn't drive you demented. this man is basically pretending you're not there! Like a ghost he can't see or hear.

Surely your DC must have noticed. I'm sorry, I just can't imagine it. He's punishing you, you bad little wifey. That'll teach you, won't it.

Presumably you're keeping everything in order while he has the luxury of sitting in front of his computer all evening ignoring you. Well, invisible people don't make meals, do washing, housework, etc, do they?

Gah, I'll stop now. This is no good for my blood pressure. No-one should have to put up with this sort of abuse.

feelokaboutit,

re your comment:-
"It's not so much that the environment is terrible (though it could be better!), it's that I don't want them to grow up and replicate our non-communicative, unaffectionate relationship".

But this is precisely what they are learning about relationships from the two of you now. It is a terrible environment not just for you but for your children as well. We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents so what are you both teaching them now?. One day as well they will leave home and it will be just the two of you - what then for you?. Your children too will not thank you for staying with such a man in the long term and will wonder why in their eyes you put him before them. They saw you deeply unhappy, saw all his silence treatment and yet you stayed?.

You have been ground down by him now with predictable result to your own self worth i.e its likely to be now through the floor.

As an aside what did your H's parents teach him about relationships? I would put money on it that either one or both parents were emotionally unavailable to him.

Such men do not change; they act like this as well because they can. This is also about power and control.

By repeating the message to your children that they "are stupid" and general verbal abuse to them and you, he is setting them up for a life of low self-esteem...

You sound very lonely in your marriage.

I got out of my abusive marriage and I am the better for it. Because I can live my life without having to deal with his fuckwittery.

I think the idea to get him to make an appointment with Relate is a good one.

Go to counselling by yourself to help you work out what you want to do. Life is very short to live like this. If you do end up staying, at least you'll be doing it consciously, with survival strategies in place. Alternatively, you might decide there are better ways to live. You only get one shot at it etc.

Thanks all. Yes I think h's dad would have been the difficult one as he was an alcoholic and when h was 15 the kids threw him out of the house - I gather (though no one talks about it) that he was unkind to the girls and difficult. He died before I met h so I did not know him.
The thing about h is that most of the time he really is very affectionate towards the children. I don't have an issue with the relationship between them and him. I don't like it when he loses his temper in that way and blurts the stupid stuff out, but it doesn't happen often. I think that for him it is not an offensive sentence, so it is like we are on different planets.
I am very scared of going through a divorce and ending up not living with my kids all the time, it feels like looking into the saddest abyss.
With regards to the housework, I am not housewife of the year so in that sense the house is not spotless while he sits on the computer. In fact he is deeply resentful about clutter and used to criticise this all the time (before we moved into the phase we are in now where we often don't talk).
I am going to counselling, and that has helped me to a certain extent but I wish someone would do the hard work for me and obviously that isn't going to happen!
I am very lonely. Maybe he is too. I wish I knew what to do for the best. My aunt says I am not as powerless as I think I am but I do feel powerless.